chucelli

If anything it is the other way around, since the added colors of the Radions don't do anything for most if not all organisms utilizing zooxanthellae for photosynthesis. -Robert

I didn't have any problems running them off the generator. If I had known there was a chance of damage, I probably wouldn't have run them... Perhaps putting them on a UPS and plugging the UPS into the generator will prevent any issues with power fluctuations. -Robert

Kept mine on during the outage. If you have a refugium with lots of algae, it's even more imperative to keep the lights on. -Robert

Hey Josh, Thanks for the offer. I'm good at the moment. Glad to hear your power is back! This gives me hope! -Robert

Very glad to hear some of you got your power back. We're in Montgomery Village. We still don't have power and they're saying it could take up to a week! The most worrying part is that we don't see any utility crews anywhere, even at the downed power line down the street. Have the generator running to keep the water moving, but the challenge now is to keep the water temp from rising too high. Got 2 1 liter frozen water bottles alternating in the sump. Fingers crossed. -Robert

I resisted using carbon for the longest time because I was lazy and wanted to keep my system as simple/maintenance free as possible. I never went back after I saw the difference first hand. Both photos were taken with the same WB. No post processing so a bit more blue than reality, but you can see the difference a day after running carbon. This makes me wonder what other "bad stuff" it may be taking out. before: after: I know that SPS release toxins even when in close proximity to each other. I feel a little safer thinking that carbon is helping in the reduction of those chemicals. Regarding HLLE, I heard that the dust is what causes that. Don't know if there is truth to that, but I rinse my carbon well and have never had a HLLE problem. -Robert

The problems is that we don't know the ideal microbe combinations needed for a healthy tank. Perhaps companies such as Zeovit have it partly (or maybe all) figured out. I know some with very successful tanks dose microbial products weekly to keep the "correct" combination in their tank, since diversity seems to decrease over time for multiple reasons. Perhaps this is part of the "old tank syndrome" many experience? Paulb has not run into this issue probably due in part to regular additions from the Sound. Most of us do not have that kind of access however... I just don't like the thought of being dependent on a certain product and not knowing exactly what is in it... -Robert

Have you tried just putting a blob of epoxy over them? You could then pry it off after a couple weeks, or just leave it there. -Robert

oh, and the part about "fecal transplants" is not unlike us transferring some "live" (poop filled) sand from a mature system to seed a new system.

I've always found it interesting why some tanks, despite doing "all the right things" seem to never thrive and experience endless issues, while others have success with what seems to be "minimal" intervention. I thought for the longest time, that bacterial strains probably play a larger than expected invisible role in the health and long term success in our tanks. It may be complete nonsense, but I think this NY times article highlights how unknowingly dependent our bodies are on having the "right" combination of microbes. -Robert

your fish are spoiled mine get only pellets and flakes from the auto-feeder... sometimes if I'm around during feeding time, I'll give them some cyclopeez...

during food transition, always feed their favorite foods last. Feeding multiple times a day is a must, unless you somehow get lucky with some piggy individuals. For example, if feeding 4 times a day, feed whatever you plan on feeding long-term the first two sessions (don't worry if they don't eat). It also helps to insert the food where there is strong water movement. Then, in the end, feed their favorite food (which they should always eat). Then reduce their favorite food feedings to once a day at the end of the day after the 4th feeding. Then eventually you can stop feeding their favorite/live food altogether. You really have to saturate the water column with food so the most docile individuals can feed. The dominant male will chase away all others who attempt to feed. It's always a challenge for the "lesser" ones to get enough to eat. -Robert

Hi Laura, if you are in the area and want to swing by for a look, let me know. The most important thing is to get an idea of the quality of light before making any decisions. Sometimes, expectations do not meet with reality and decisions are questioned after the fact... PM sent. -Robert

ok, that's gotta be the funniest/creative pic I've seen in a while. did you draw that? +1 best objective advice. If this is important to you, you may want to seriously consider running LEDs. good luck! -Robert

I was going to say that a lot of people hate them and would glad to give some to you, but it looks like you already have an offer!

thanks. That's good to hear Chau. In a few months it would be interesting to see what growth pattern the tri-color takes in another tank/environment. I think it looks "clean" because there is no coralline algae. While pretty, coralline spots can sometimes give the impression that a tank is not "clean". I have almost no coralline due to hundreds of Asterina starfish in my tank. As soon as a small spot takes hold, you will see a starfish on it within a couple days. I still mind them when they find a developing spot on a rock. On the glass I don't mind so much -Robert

Thanks Ryan. why? do you have an inside bet going on with Travis? I'm running 40˚ optics over this display. Eric, I actually removed a couple pieces of rock since the first 2010 pic posted here. -Robert

I think this one is the same angle. Pic is a bit out of focus, so didn't include it first time... I put the original 2010 pic next to it. I think that's what you had in mind? March 2010 June 2012 -Robert

First off, I would like to clarify that this thread is intended to be purely informational and not a X vs X which technology is better thread. I personally believe people should use whatever method works for them. If you are happy, there is no reason to convince others that it is the best. What's best for one may not be for another. I've been asked by a few frag buyers recently what lighting I was using. When "LED" was disclosed, there seemed to be much surprise. I never gave this a second thought when I posted the frags for sale here at WAMAS, since it obviously works just as well as anything else. I can't reiterate enough that water chemistry is much more important than lighting. I can say that with some confidence now For those that are interested in seeing my original build thread with various PAR numbers, it is located somewhere here, but it's so old I'm not sure I can find it. Alternatively, you could also venture to the "evil" site, but I'm trying to post everything here as well so you don't have to go there. It has been roughly two and a half years since I switched over to LED lighting. I was running 3X250w MH on Lumentek electronic ballasts before the switch. My main reason (there were other reasons as well) for the switch was fixture aesthetics. I could not find compact fixtures which used the bulbs I wanted (SE MH) and had the look I wanted in a living room. With these LEDs, I was able to mount the lights higher up like some of the spot-lit Japanese tanks I had seen. I feel now that I've had some time with these lights, I can now make some observations and comparisons. Keep in mind that my observations cannot be used to judge commercial LED systems since I have no experience with them besides seeing them in action at various LFS. Growth: I want to assure anyone who has any doubts about LED's ability to grow corals, I can say they definitely do not have any problems growing corals. It has grown corals as well as any lighting I've used in the past. In addition, please remember that I am still using the same original fixtures I built years ago. There have been multiple advances in LED technology since then. Cost: I believe I spent around a grand in materials at the end of 2009 when all is said and done (mounting hardware included) to build these three pendents. There has been no maintenance of any kind or any burnt out emitters since they went into service. With my previous MH setup, I would have spent around $540 on bulb replacements at this point. This is with a replacement interval of 6 months. Factoring in the cost of the ballasts and retrofit fixture parts, I think I am about even now. There may be other long term cost benefits that may apply to you (ie. chiller, energy consumption, etc…) Color: First off, I think there are two separate sub-topics when talking about color. The first is how the corals immediately look under a certain light. The second is how the colors develop as the corals grow under that light. This is what I would like to talk about more in depth. In my experience, the latter is most certainly related to water chemistry and has very little to do with light, as long as the light spectrum is within the commonly accepted ballpark range. I find what does seem to change color seems to be intensity. Spectrum is directly related to intensity, as I believe intensity goes down when you approach the ends of what is considered "correct" spectrum, or PAR. The best documented example I have of this is the large Acro colony (formosa) on the left side of the tank. In the earlier photos as well as the pictures, you can see how much color is in the base compared to the top areas where the colony is receiving most light. Later photo documentation of the same Acro shows the main colony losing most of that color and becoming what the top portion was before, with the top portion lightening even more. At this point, it is logical to assume that the switch in lighting caused the Acro to lose its colors. However, frags of the same Acro sitting at the very bottom of display develop the same color and color intensity as the mother colony before the switch to LED. Now it seems obvious that intensity directly affects coloration. In short, assuming the lighting used meets PAR requirements, adjusting intensity will allow adjustments in the coral's true color. Keep in mind this change happens in weeks if not months. Now back to the first sub-topic.. As long as you like the way your corals look under lighting which meets PAR requirements, you should be good to go. Remember when we were growing Acros under yellow sodium vapor bulbs? Shimmer Aesthetics: Assume natural sunlight is the benchmark. When diving, you can see that shimmer lines are long, and ebb slowly into and out of one another. In an aquarium, the same exact shimmer lines are almost never reproduced due to the faster/shorter water movement cycles and the multiple light sources needed to provide the needed coverage and intensity. The way LEDs are built and used thus far pulls us further from that by introducing even more sources of point intensity. Depending on how far apart these LEDs are mounted, some have complained of a "disco ball" effect. This effect is certainly real and is a valid concern. Seeing an LED fixture in action is a prerequisite before considering any kind of switch. I personally will definitely use LED in my next tank (if we ever move). However, I will definitely have some modifications to make! Higher emitter densities is something I am striving for and initial testing on a test unit over my frag tank shows promise... It seems that in recent months, some manufactures have also started to design units with tighter emitter groupings. It remains to be seen whether or not their cooling design is sufficient to offset the greater heat dissipation needed for higher emitter densities. Unfortunately, this is an area easily skimped due to much higher manufacturing costs and is almost invisible to consumers. Now on to the pictures. The display has remained mostly unchanged since the pendents went into service in 2010. At some point, a second MP40 was added to increase flow as corals grew in. I recently moved the return to the right side and installed a bigger return pump in efforts to introduce more flow on the right side. Flow has been blocked due to the growing colonies on the left. Changes in fish stock due to outgrowing and a major power outage in 2011 which killed most of the smaller fish (non-tangs). I now have a generator. Coral wise, I have dealt with my share of pests and vowed to never add anything new as long as this tank is running. I have been successful with this self imposed restraint with only the addition of the Heteractis Crispa in April of 2011. Here are some select pics from beginning and present: FTS March 2010 (3 months after LEDs went into service) FTS April 2011 October 2011 FTS Feb 2012 FTS June 2012 some hope for those of you who may have gotten the Loisettae from me recently: April 2010 April 2011 Feb 2012 Formosa: some top-downs: Some other recent top-downs: current FTS: January 2010 clip: June 2012 clip: hope this post has been interesting and informative! thanks for looking -Robert

You are absolutely right. Keeping these high wattage LEDs cool and within ideal operating temperature has been one of the major challenges in implementation. Many manufactures skimp in this area to cut costs since it is very expensive to implement and is an area that consumers can't easily see without dissection and proper testing. However, this does not invalidate the facts of LED's superior lumen maintenance properties. "handle" is a relative term. I think they will survive just fine, but growth will no doubt be stunted, at least this is what I've noticed. Adaptations that have come about to work with 6 months of continuous cloudy will not work ideally on a sudden "sunny" streak. They will need to re-adapt and this takes a painfully long time. -Robert

Much longer period of time. 25% loss over 10 years is null relative to MH. This 25% loss can easily be made up with higher drive currents assuming the LEDs were not driven at 100% of max spec'd current. With the newest emitters available, there is no need to drive them at their maximum rated current. If sunny days only happen once every six months, I would say your comparison would be accurate. -Robert

being a Benz enthusiast, I could not disagree more with the analogy.

If one is to argue for LEDs (since I see this thread going beyond the Radion units and venturing into general LED), arguing based on perceived economic advantage is flawed even if you build your own. You have to factor in the time required to research, build, and costs of tools and materials required. Commercial systems aside, (since I have no personal experience with them) LED technology does have certain distinct advantages over other forms of lighting. -Heat radiation (lack of): This advantage is not about whether or not you can save on electricity because you are no longer putting heat into your tank or house via lighting. You don't want to put heat into your tank via lighting because this results in a daily spike when the lights are on. The temperature then starts to drop when the lights are off. For the record, I don't think it's that important that the water temperature remains static on a day to day basis. However, an overall consistent average temperature is important and LEDs make it much easier to maintain average temperature year-round. Water heaters, because of their direct contact with the water, results in faster and more consistent heat exchange, which ultimately results in better temperature management (vs heat exchange via lighting). So in short, it is much easier to manage water temperatures with just a heater, rather than a heater plus lighting (plus chiller in some cases). -Hardware longevity: In addition to the already mentioned bulb replacement costs (which I feel is secondary), eliminating bulb replacements also contributes to environmental stability. New MH bulbs lose much of their maximum intensity within the first few days, then output slowly drops over a longer period of time. This is especially noticeable when there is a constant relative light source (such as LED) for comparison. You can imagine what those first few days of a new MH bulb feels like on your corals. As for LED failures, I don't know anyone with a DIY unit that has had any LED failures not related to misuse or accident. The commercial units IMO are more prone to failure due to inherent weaknesses of circuit-board use in these types of applications. Finally, I would avoid making PAR comparisons based on wattages, since there are multiple MH bulb choices within any given wattage, all with greatly varied PAR output. Add all the different optics, colors available for LEDs, and the fact that most commonly used PAR meters do not give correct weight to spectra found in abundance in blue LEDs, there is no accurate way to make on-the-fly comparisons. -Robert

For those of you who may have met David Cabrera of Olney, or have known him, I wanted to share his death with WAMAS since reefing was one of his passions. "reefmaster5", was killed in Kabul, Afghanistan on October 29th when a suicide bomber drove his truck into the NATO convoy of which David was a part. 17 people were killed. I only learned about it last week on my way home from work when I heard his name mentioned on the radio. It was a very surreal experience and I wasn't sure whether I heard right at first, but deep down I think I knew it was him. I wasn't super close to him, but we shared a beer or two and talked "fish talk" and our families got together a few times and I considered him a friend. I know many lives are lost when war is involved, but David was a local who shared the same passion as us. One of his wishes was to make sure his children were taken care of, so a memorial fund has been set up. For those of you who want to contribute, you can go to http://davidcabrera.us/ to donate or get more info. -Robert

Anthony, I don't know what your 92g corner tank looks like now, but if you have many larger mature sps colonies, I would think twice before switching to LEDs, especially if they are doing well as you say. Colonies, especially larger ones that have grown accustomed to a particular setup do not acclimate too well to this kind of change. As colonies grow, they shape their skeletons to optimize the use of available light. They way most LED units output light is still very different than the closest comparable MH setup. If you really have to make the switch (ie. economical, or heat reasons) then expect some die-offs in certain areas and stunted growth in others. It's not the end of the world, but it will take some time for the tank to get back to its current state. -Robert