My Coral Rehabilitation Project

[WheresTheReef]

Keep up the great work! I was wondering if you document in these cases how you treated the corals? What worked, and what didn't. Would be educational and possibly help others trying to save their own corals with similar conditions. I'm sure some is trial and error, but was wondering if there was some common methods you have found works with higher success than others? Think a site/forum like humblefish, but for corals. Learning from both success as well as failure is still educational. If you haven't documented past rescues then it might be worthwhile doing it moving forward. Just a thought. Thanks again for sharing.

[maevepotter]

On 5/8/2022 at 3:35 PM, ReefdUp said:

 

Aw, thank you!  Eh, with the huge name shake-up in the last few years, I've lost the bubble on what it probably is now.  Most of what was in "Favia" went to "Dipsastraea."  

 

I use a plethora of antibiotics (about 10 or so, including, metronidazole, doxycycline, ciprofloxacin, kanamycin), depending on what I think the root cause is (and that's not to mention anti-fungals and other treatments).  Because of the complexity of what I do (and my complete lack of actual medical training), I do not generally post my protocols (but I will help troubleshoot corals and suggest options for treatment).  You can find a lot of threads discussing cipro use for brown jelly, but this trend really worries me.  Bacterial resistance against cipro evolves fairly easily, and there seems to be a general attitude that cipro cures almost all reef problems.  I believe we'll start to see antibiotic resistance cropping up, and reefkeepers are already very limited in what is available OTC, thus potentially putting us back to square one with treatments.

 

 

That's interesting. What are the various antibiotics best for? Do you get them prescribed through an exotics vet?

[ReefdUp]

55 minutes ago, WheresTheReef said:

Keep up the great work! I was wondering if you document in these cases how you treated the corals? What worked, and what didn't. Would be educational and possibly help others trying to save their own corals with similar conditions. I'm sure some is trial and error, but was wondering if there was some common methods you have found works with higher success than others? Think a site/forum like humblefish, but for corals. Learning from both success as well as failure is still educational. If you haven't documented past rescues then it might be worthwhile doing it moving forward. Just a thought. Thanks again for sharing.

 

Thanks! You're absolutely right that documenting what works and doesn't is incredibly valuable. I've been slowly putting all of it onto my website (www.CoralEverAfter.org). You can find a lot of my efforts on various forums too, but as forums come and go (and we move across the country frequently), I decided to keep it all in one central location.

 

I also had the amazing opportunity of being a speaker at one of our quarterly meetings here - it was a blast sharing what I've learned!

[ReefdUp]

7 minutes ago, maevepotter said:

 

 

That's interesting. What are the various antibiotics best for? Do you get them prescribed through an exotics vet?

 

A lot of them are available for fish or other animals OTC. My microscope isn't the best, and I'm pretty sure my husband would lose his mind if I started growing petri dishes of cultures... So I'm stuck trying to diagnose by symptoms. 

 

This book has been incredibly useful trying to align symptoms to possible bacterial infections. Unfortunately, it focuses on more SPS-related issues - there is very little for LPS and softies.

 

I'm trying to document my findings as well as possible, but it all just takes time (a LOT of it).

 

[maevepotter]

1 hour ago, ReefdUp said:

 

A lot of them are available for fish or other animals OTC. My microscope isn't the best, and I'm pretty sure my husband would lose his mind if I started growing petri dishes of cultures... So I'm stuck trying to diagnose by symptoms. 

 

This book has been incredibly useful trying to align symptoms to possible bacterial infections. Unfortunately, it focuses on more SPS-related issues - there is very little for LPS and softies.

 

I'm trying to document my findings as well as possible, but it all just takes time (a LOT of it).

 

Don't you let him stop you. Petri dish away! Maybe you'll be the next author of coral diseases for LPS and softies. What kind of microscope do you need? WAMAS members could pitch in!

[DaJMasta]

Just need to find a nice discreet incubator and tuck it away in a corner...

I've got my eyes on a fancy microscope to take a look at plankton and more, but while I wait for something I can actually afford that can do what I'm after, I have seen some pretty good microscopes go for a couple hundred bucks here and there.  Something 20ish years old and designed for clinical use from a major manufacturer would give you excellent brightfield performance and probably the option of using phase contrast to bring out the edges.  A lot of the 'consumer grade' microscope manufacturers now actually have pretty nice optics - not as wide a field of view or as many imaging types supported, but something like a mid tier amscope would get you very nice looking images at a reasonable price even new.

[ReefdUp]

1 hour ago, maevepotter said:

Don't you let him stop you. Petri dish away! Maybe you'll be the next author of coral diseases for LPS and softies. What kind of microscope do you need? WAMAS members could pitch in!

 

Haha - you all are the best!

 

1 hour ago, DaJMasta said:

Just need to find a nice discreet incubator and tuck it away in a corner...

I've got my eyes on a fancy microscope to take a look at plankton and more, but while I wait for something I can actually afford that can do what I'm after, I have seen some pretty good microscopes go for a couple hundred bucks here and there.  Something 20ish years old and designed for clinical use from a major manufacturer would give you excellent brightfield performance and probably the option of using phase contrast to bring out the edges.  A lot of the 'consumer grade' microscope manufacturers now actually have pretty nice optics - not as wide a field of view or as many imaging types supported, but something like a mid tier amscope would get you very nice looking images at a reasonable price even new.

 

Ah, I love the encouragement!  You're way over my head on this.  I'm an engineer, but I'm more used to other sorts of tools! 

 

I have an Amazon-special (OMAX 40X-2000X LED Binocular Compound Lab Microscope), which does well only for 40x.  I've never figured out how to get anything more, as the 100x objective hits the slide before the field is in focus.  Probably user error...but it's one of those things I haven't bothered to research yet.  I guess I haven't been too eager, as I don't think it'll do bacteria well anyway (but I could be wrong).  I also have noooooooo idea how to do tissue mounting or stain for bacteria (haven't done that sort of thing since high school, and that was a long time ago).  If you have any good resources for me to go learn (other than actual school...), I'd love to know more!!  

[DaJMasta]

The 100x is probably an immersion lens - usually oil, but sometimes water or glycerin - and they're designed to be used with a cover slip (usually written on the objective, so 0.17mm in most cases), and getting proper focusing and full resolving power relies on using a glass cover slip and the right immersion medium on the sample because everything's got a different refractive index that needs to be accounted for.  Also, usually the total depth of field of a 100x lens is very shallow, so you probably want a flat slide with the coverslip rather than a slide with a well, for example.

I haven't done a lot of staining, but there are kits that include some common stains and basic instructions that could be useful for that.  I have been preferring to try and look at live samples, which is often tough to get a nice still image, but that's where phase contrast or the more advanced (and costly) DIC or differential interference contrast come into play.  Basically, they use some clever optical tricks and the properties of light to get rid of some of the light that goes through the edges of samples (like the cell membrane), so it effectively makes the contrast of the thing you want to look at many times darker without having to stain it.

FWIW, that microscope you've got is probably pretty capable for brightfield work, there is definitely a sort of feel for things that plays a lot in getting a nice looking image, a lot of which I have yet to properly figure out.

[ReefdUp]

On 5/14/2022 at 5:17 PM, DaJMasta said:

The 100x is probably an immersion lens - usually oil, but sometimes water or glycerin - and they're designed to be used with a cover slip (usually written on the objective, so 0.17mm in most cases), and getting proper focusing and full resolving power relies on using a glass cover slip and the right immersion medium on the sample because everything's got a different refractive index that needs to be accounted for.  Also, usually the total depth of field of a 100x lens is very shallow, so you probably want a flat slide with the coverslip rather than a slide with a well, for example.
....

 

Oh boy.  I think I need to go figure all this stuff out now.  Thanks for pushing me to get back on track learning all this stuff.

 

FWIW, here are some images taken so far with my microscope:

 

Possibly Helicostoma nonatum:

 

Seed shrimp:

 

Tanaidacea

 

 

Some sort of worm:

[ReefdUp]

 Cercariae, likely of Bivesicula (possibly B. caribbensis - thanks to Dr. Pieter Johnson for the ID)

 

 

[ReefdUp]

[ReefdUp]

On 3/25/2022 at 5:11 PM, lowsingle said:

Keep up the good work, interesting how it appears to have changed in color from when I originally purchased it (maybe it was already stressed / sick at that time).  When I purchased it it was bright orange/ red with lime green streaks.  Now it appears more red with dark blue and muted green streaks.  It was stung by a jawbreaker and that started the downward spiral that I couldn’t get it out of….I am convinced that it would be dead if I had kept it.  Way to go!
 

Darren

 

@lowsingle, we're at the one-year anniversary!  (Ignore the aiptasia - my nudibranchs are working hard... everywhere else in the tank...)  But it did go back to the more orange coloration than previously when it was dark red.  It's not perfectly circular yet, but it's really close.

 

[DaJMasta]

Do you have to do anything in particular for a coral to regrow over its own skeleton when it's been covered in algae or the like?  Or do they just eventually cover it again as they regrow when there isn't more algae actively growing there?

[lowsingle]

18 minutes ago, ReefdUp said:

 

@lowsingle, we're at the one-year anniversary!  (Ignore the aiptasia - my nudibranchs are working hard... everywhere else in the tank...)  But it did go back to the more orange coloration than previously when it was dark red.  It's not perfectly circular yet, but it's really close.

 

Love it!  Let me know if you decide to sell it ?

 

Darren

 

[ReefdUp]

19 minutes ago, DaJMasta said:

Do you have to do anything in particular for a coral to regrow over its own skeleton when it's been covered in algae or the like?  Or do they just eventually cover it again as they regrow when there isn't more algae actively growing there?

 

I typically (like in this case) remove as much of the skeleton as I can.  It does seem to take longer to regrow into its original shape when the base skeleton is gone, but dead skeleton does seem to cause a lot of problems too.  When I can't actually remove the skeleton, I trim it down as much as I can.  In some cases, I've used super glue/ epoxy to smooth it out, but that's pretty rare.  

[ReefdUp]

This was a new(ish) one for me, so I have to share: coral-boring sponges.  I've seen this before, but it's been years.  At the time, I really didn't know what I was looking at or what to do.  I've also seen similar sponges that grow up through coral skeletons and rockwork but were less invasive.

 

These invasive sponges grow up through the skeleton of the coral, occasionally peeking out.  They dissolve the skeleton along the way, undermining the coral.  I theorize that this dissolving process alters the pH of the area, which then creates a less-than-ideal environment for the coral.

 

When I received this hammer to rehab, I was told it just wouldn't ever extend its polyps (but was otherwise fine).  Sure enough - it looked fine on initial examination. 

 

 

So, I pulled out my bandsaw.  There, inside, was a weird yellow fuzzy mess, where I'd expect to see a skeleton (along with worms, detritus, and other typical skeletal inhabitants).  Ok, so likely a sponge - so I dipped it, hoping to kill the sponge off.  No such luck.

 

 

A few weeks later, and the coral was not doing any better.  I cut the skeleton down as much as I could without harming the coral and dipped again.  This time, the hammer had better polyp extension afterwards.

 

Time to start investigating more!

 

I cut a thin slice of skeleton off the affected coral, along with a slice from a healthy Euphyllia.

 

 

Here's the affected slice under a macroscope.  The skeleton is clearly degraded, with only tiny pieces suspended in the sponge's tissue.

 

 

Here it is under a microscope - similar findings.

 

 

I wanted to then see what damage the sponge had actually done, so I bleached the affected slice.  Here, you can see the remnants of the skeleton compared to a healthy slice.

 

 

What I found more interesting was the tunnel pattern.  Although the sponge was throughout the skeleton, it was definitely boring tunnels to the outside of the skeleton (likely for waste exchange).  Here are photos of those tunnels.

 

 

 

My plan is to regularly dip the coral in hydrogen peroxide to hopefully kill off the sponge over time (without killing the coral).  Unfortunately, the sponge does not appear calcium-based (tried the vinegar test with no luck). I'll keep researching other methods as well.  Here's the coral as it currently stands (just to end on progress...)

 

 

@roni

[ReefdUp]

 

There are a few more details/photos on my blog:  https://coraleverafter.org/?cat=36

[lynn.reef.nerd]

On 6/4/2022 at 6:44 AM, ReefdUp said:

This was a new(ish) one for me, so I have to share: coral-boring sponges.  I've seen this before, but it's been years.  At the time, I really didn't know what I was looking at or what to do.  I've also seen similar sponges that grow up through coral skeletons and rockwork but were less invasive.

 

These invasive sponges grow up through the skeleton of the coral, occasionally peeking out.  They dissolve the skeleton along the way, undermining the coral.  I theorize that this dissolving process alters the pH of the area, which then creates a less-than-ideal environment for the coral.

 

When I received this hammer to rehab, I was told it just wouldn't ever extend its polyps (but was otherwise fine).  Sure enough - it looked fine on initial examination. 

 

 

So, I pulled out my bandsaw.  There, inside, was a weird yellow fuzzy mess, where I'd expect to see a skeleton (along with worms, detritus, and other typical skeletal inhabitants).  Ok, so likely a sponge - so I dipped it, hoping to kill the sponge off.  No such luck.

 

 

A few weeks later, and the coral was not doing any better.  I cut the skeleton down as much as I could without harming the coral and dipped again.  This time, the hammer had better polyp extension afterwards.

 

Time to start investigating more!

 

I cut a thin slice of skeleton off the affected coral, along with a slice from a healthy Euphyllia.

 

 

Here's the affected slice under a macroscope.  The skeleton is clearly degraded, with only tiny pieces suspended in the sponge's tissue.

 

 

Here it is under a microscope - similar findings.

 

 

I wanted to then see what damage the sponge had actually done, so I bleached the affected slice.  Here, you can see the remnants of the skeleton compared to a healthy slice.

 

 

What I found more interesting was the tunnel pattern.  Although the sponge was throughout the skeleton, it was definitely boring tunnels to the outside of the skeleton (likely for waste exchange).  Here are photos of those tunnels.

 

 

 

My plan is to regularly dip the coral in hydrogen peroxide to hopefully kill off the sponge over time (without killing the coral).  Unfortunately, the sponge does not appear calcium-based (tried the vinegar test with no luck). I'll keep researching other methods as well.  Here's the coral as it currently stands (just to end on progress...)

 

 

@roni

What concentration of H2O2 do you use and for how long do you dip? 

 

What would you recommend as a concentration for cipro and for how long? I'm still getting pretty mixed experiences from people on the subject. I just do the "that looks good" approach and would like a more concrete example. 

[ReefdUp]

On 7/29/2022 at 7:18 AM, lynn.reef.nerd said:

What concentration of H2O2 do you use and for how long do you dip? 

 

What would you recommend as a concentration for cipro and for how long? I'm still getting pretty mixed experiences from people on the subject. I just do the "that looks good" approach and would like a more concrete example. 

 

My hydrogen peroxide dip ratios and times vary, depending on the issue and the coral.  The most hobbyist-friendly treatment that I would generally recommend is a 4:1 ratio of tank water to hydrogen peroxide (3%) for 20 seconds for non-SPS corals.  I have treatment protocols that go up to 1:1 for up to 60s, but I highly recommend against that for the general hobbyist level.  I only use that protocol in extreme cases and as part of an overall treatment plan to handle the fall-out stress.

 

I have used Cipro successfully; however, it is an antibiotic that I strongly recommend against using for most hobbyists as well.  It is known to be incredibly susceptible to developing antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria, which we definitely need to avoid in the hobby.  I don't want to get onto a soapbox, but there is an overwhelming gap of knowledge in the hobby on bacteria and appropriate treatment.  In fact, it appears that an incredible amount of problems we're encountering are multifactorial, so just using antibiotics will not fully address the problem.  For example, I do not believe that Brown Jelly Syndrome is simply caused by Arcobacter bacteria.  In my (non-medical-professional) opinion, I believe it is multifactorial, likely with temperature and phosphate playing major roles (and I'm still not convinced that Vibrio doesn't have a role).  Cipro can work to remove one portion of the equation, but the conditions will still exist for the next time Arcobacter is reintroduced.  So, long-term, there is a potential for antibiotic resistance to build.  Cipro can target some really nasty gram-negative bacteria where we, as hobbyists, don't have good replacement options if Cipro is no longer viable.  

 

Bottom line - we can chat offline about what may work for various conditions.  But it's not something I'm comfortable posting for the general hobbyist with limited diagnostic skills.  

 

 

[ReefdUp]

[DaJMasta]

Though it's an older post, did you find out more about that skeleton boring sponge?  Since they are filter feeders (at least more generally, maybe there are some that can derive nutrients directly from their substrate), have you considered trying to get rid of it by smothering it - dipping the affected coral base in a sealant of some kind, maybe even with the intention of peeling it off later.

There are likely, some potential issues with that, since if things decay under the seal it could cause secondary infections, but it could be a less-than-usual vector of treatment.

[ReefdUp]

On 8/13/2022 at 9:07 AM, DaJMasta said:

Though it's an older post, did you find out more about that skeleton boring sponge?  Since they are filter feeders (at least more generally, maybe there are some that can derive nutrients directly from their substrate), have you considered trying to get rid of it by smothering it - dipping the affected coral base in a sealant of some kind, maybe even with the intention of peeling it off later.

There are likely, some potential issues with that, since if things decay under the seal it could cause secondary infections, but it could be a less-than-usual vector of treatment.

 

I'm so sorry I haven't responded - it has been an insane summer. More to come on this topic soon.

[ReefdUp]

Ode to my Tanks before MACNA

 

All my bags are packed I'm ready to go

I'm standin' here at the fishroom door

I hate to wake you up to say goodbye

But the actinics breakin' it's early morn

The Uber's waitin' she's blowin' her horn

Already I'm so lonesome I could die

 

So wave fins and eat for me

Tell me that you'll grow for me

Don't crash so I'll never let me go

'Cause I'm leavin' on a jet plane

To MACNA then I'll be back again

Oh corals, I hate to go

[ReefdUp]

Linking to the MACNA presentation:

Back from the Brink: A Systems Engineering Approach to Coral Triage and Rehabilitation

[ReefdUp]

I lost track of the number of antibiotic treatments on this coral required to save it.  I should have removed all the excess skeleton like I normally do.  It's funny - not following my own protocols gets me into trouble!