howaboutme March 28, 2022 Share March 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, YHSublime said: There are a couple of ideas floating around. The original plan was to replace the nano with the 80 gallon. The second photo illustrates the way the nano runs in the basement. The second idea I'm batting around that I like, is setting up the 80, or the 120 regularly, so running the way of the arrows in this first photo, removing the couch. The tank is probably running a little further to the right in this photo (above the pipes) Based on the first photo, the horizontal lines would be the nano, and the vertical lines would be the 80 or 120. Kinda hard to see but where's the nearest support for those joists for the new tank? They usually rest of either steel or wood beams/girders or bearing walls that then get transferred to columns to the floor. The tank looks to be right smack in the middle of the span. Note that not all walls are bearing. I see the wall on the tank level but I don't see the corresponding wall in the basement. To be honest, it is likely okay given that you have 2 parallel (always use the word parallel or perpendicular to the structural member when describing) joists that it sits on but it could be better. Since you have an unfinished basement, you do have options. Remember that most often times it is the lateral load (twisting) that is the issue, not the gravity load. Pay a structural engineer a few bucks and write a report. Edited March 28, 2022 by howaboutme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn.reef.nerd March 28, 2022 Share March 28, 2022 Forgot to vote. I would stick with the 80. I like the lower profile tank. 4ft and 4ft .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM March 28, 2022 Share March 28, 2022 Jump and down on the floor in front of that dog on the couch and see how much your current 20 water level bounces. It will be worse once you have a larger water volume, I'd think. It's hard for me to picture the basement load from the photos you posted. Probably it won't plummet through the floor, but I bet it will bounce. You can stiffen those floor joists by gluing and screwing a sheet of 3/4" plywood to the bottoms of them to make a box joint. In my 75g build thread I show doing that to mine which were right in the center of the span between the central steel beam and the foundation wall. I also sistered some extra joists onto them to strengthen them up with glue and screws. Then the joists are nice and strong and you only lose 3/4" of headspace and it doesn't bounce as much. It may still sway forward a bit, but you can work on that by attaching the stand to the wall behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM March 28, 2022 Share March 28, 2022 Oh, and don't put it in the basement. Please put it where you'll see it all the time. You already know it's no fun (and harder to succeed at it) if you have one in a spot you don't regularly inhabit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 28, 2022 Author Share March 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, AlanM said: Jump and down on the floor in front of that dog on the couch and see how much your current 20 water level bounces. It will be worse once you have a larger water volume, I'd think. It's hard for me to picture the basement load from the photos you posted. Probably it won't plummet through the floor, but I bet it will bounce. You're probably right. The dog is actually still sleeping there, and has been joined by the other one, so I'm going to wait on this experiment. Just walking on the floors you can hear other things bumping and creaking on the other side of the room, this house was built in 1930. 13 minutes ago, AlanM said: You can stiffen those floor joists by gluing and screwing a sheet of 3/4" plywood to the bottoms of them to make a box joint. In my 75g build thread I show doing that to mine which were right in the center of the span between the central steel beam and the foundation wall. I also sistered some extra joists onto them to strengthen them up with glue and screws. The space I'm talking about for the 120 or 80 is almost exactly by the side wall of the house. The steel beams that run down the center of the house is closest to the nano. And even though that nano would be spread over the perpendicular joists, it's still a lot of weight to be added on the two parallel joists. Did I do that right, @howaboutme? The plywood idea would absolutely be doable, although, I might have to cut out a spot for an HVAC vent 13 minutes ago, AlanM said: Then the joists are nice and strong and you only lose 3/4" of headspace and it doesn't bounce as much. It may still sway forward a bit, but you can work on that by attaching the stand to the wall behind it. A plaster and lathe wall at that. I also have the option to plumb both of them down into a shared basement sump, something I've been pulling for since we moved in. It doesn't help that we're unsure what we're going to do with the space, but I try to long game any builds these days. 12 minutes ago, AlanM said: Oh, and don't put it in the basement. Please put it where you'll see it all the time. You already know it's no fun (and harder to succeed at it) if you have one in a spot you don't regularly inhabit. Yeah, Jack already reminded me of why that didn't work out. I'd sooner scratch any build than go basement display again. I don't know why I got this itch again, but I'm inclined to keep scratching it. 2 hours ago, lynn.reef.nerd said: Forgot to vote. I would stick with the 80. I like the lower profile tank. 4ft and 4ft .... Word, nice to hear some DB80 advocates! Turns out when you ask a bunch of reefers what size tank they think you should build out, the usual answer is always "as big as you can go!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme March 28, 2022 Share March 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, YHSublime said: The space I'm talking about for the 120 or 80 is almost exactly by the side wall of the house. The steel beams that run down the center of the house is closest to the nano. And even though that nano would be spread over the perpendicular joists, it's still a lot of weight to be added on the two parallel joists. Did I do that right, @howaboutme? The plywood idea would absolutely be doable, although, I might have to cut out a spot for an HVAC vent Yes! Is this correct? Blue on left is your exterior wall and blue on right is your black painted beam and columns? Red are your joists and black is your 120 set on 2 parallel joists. I'd beef it up. Alans suggestion helps because it helps the lateral load. I'd also consider some posts if you have room but I'm playing arm chair QB now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 28, 2022 Author Share March 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, howaboutme said: Yes! Is this correct? Blue on left is your exterior wall and blue on right is your black painted beam and columns? Red are your joists and black is your 120 set on 2 parallel joists. I'd beef it up. Alans suggestion helps because it helps the lateral load. I'd also consider some posts if you have room but I'm playing arm chair QB now. Nailed it. That wall the TV is on is not structural. Like most basements in the DMV, it was just a toilet sitting there, and the PO's of the house put a frame around it with a door and drywall (outside only though!) The inside is a toilet, a sink, and a designated spot for a tub that has been drilled with a DRAIN! This is currently the location of my water mixing buckets It's probably a 10' run from the current nano, and I've entertained adding a pump for RO and NSW for changes and top offs upstairs. I'm currently hauling buckets, which keeps me young. The way they framed it out, there are some water pipes/heavy plumbing above what would be the shower area. That means putting a shower in there makes it pretty unusable if you're over 5'11, which I am at 6'2. We had a contractor sell my SO on the idea of moving the bathroom down (closer to where I am from taking the photo) but I don't know how that works with the drain not being directly under it anymore, or if it even matters? The basement is great, it's got my 8 tap kegerator down there, all my brewing equipment, a lounge room area, our washer and dryer, a deep freezer, and the equivalent of a small delis worth of restaurant equipment. Instead of finishing it, we threw down carpets and turned it into an immediately usable living space. We focused our home improvement funds on the outside during Covid, but outside of the HVAC installation, have not started focusing on the inside again. My big worry is the basement will turn into that project sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 30, 2022 Author Share March 30, 2022 Trying out something new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJKK March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, YHSublime said: Trying out something new 120g parallel the 22 nano and the 80g against the back wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 30, 2022 Author Share March 30, 2022 120g parallel the 22 nano and the 80g against the back wall? Brilliant! LoL. However, the 3 lights would cook me! I think even the 120 would be ok here, the beams from the side of the house are right in the foundation, although I’d like to be able to run it the other way against the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 You'll need to find a new spot for the LED toolbox if you do it that way, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 Love that layout. Looks like you can fit a desk there if not another tank. No excuses for not being front and center! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roni March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 I like it! You going to tie them together on that floor or the basement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 30, 2022 Author Share March 30, 2022 1 hour ago, AlanM said: You'll need to find a new spot for the LED toolbox if you do it that way, lol. I know. I need to do some serious cable management. Part of me wants to send it down into the basement. 1 hour ago, howaboutme said: Love that layout. Looks like you can fit a desk there if not another tank. No excuses for not being front and center! I'd really love to flip it so it was on the back wall, but structurally this setup spreads the weight out right up against the foundation. There is still the 11 gallon directly in front of the chair. I toyed with putting my desk right there. That would be a lot of light, I don't think I could work there getting a suntan! The electric load in this office is already pretty wild. I'm running two tanks, 4 heaters, 4 MP's, T5 and LED's, return pump, 1 monitor, 1 TV, 1 laptop, lights, 2 fans, and two mini fridges. Now add on everything needed for another tank that isn't hooked up yet. I either need to upgrade electric, or start combining sumps. 16 minutes ago, roni said: I like it! You going to tie them together on that floor or the basement? I've toyed around with combining them (this would help lessen the electric burden), and with dropping them into the basement. I'm sure my SO will not be thrilled at even the proposal of putting holes in the floor, and honestly, I get it. I'm hesitant to put anything in the basement, as there is this constant impending question of when/if basement renovations are going to happen. Even if it's two years from now, I don't want to have to replumb and move things around. Ideally I'd drop into a rubbermaid sump for both, but I think that's a pipe dream for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roni March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 I assume you'll take down your "frag" tank so you would still "only" be running two systems lol. Can't wait to see how it looks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 30, 2022 Author Share March 30, 2022 Yes, I would either shut it down, or turn it into an actual frag tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 Is that frag tank in a closet you opened up? Now that is creative use of space (for reefing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 30, 2022 Author Share March 30, 2022 Just now, howaboutme said: Is that frag tank in a closet you opened up? Now that is creative use of space (for reefing). Sure is. I also have a display shelf for all my BBQ seasonings, reef tests and fragging equipment, and koozie collection. Then I have a dry ager fridge for beef and charcuterie, and a mini fridge on top of that for hops, yeast, and a few adult sodas in the office. That's a pretty nice glimpse into my other time consuming hobbies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 If you cut a hole in the floor for reef plumbing just make it the right size for an HVAC floor vent, then when you move you can put a vent register in there and it will look fine. They'll just eventually discover that nothing comes out of the mystery vent in that room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 30, 2022 Author Share March 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, AlanM said: If you cut a hole in the floor for reef plumbing just make it the right size for an HVAC floor vent, then when you move you can put a vent register in there and it will look fine. They'll just eventually discover that nothing comes out of the mystery vent in that room. We just put in an HVAC last year. There's already one right there, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 Go down through the wall, it's easier to fix the wall later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 30, 2022 Author Share March 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Pedro said: Go down through the wall, it's easier to fix the wall later. What if it's plaster and lathe? Yup, surprise, this house was built in 1930, so all the OG walls are like that, the new ones are drywall and framing. It's a guessing game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 Just now, YHSublime said: What if it's plaster and lathe? Yup, surprise, this house was built in 1930, so all the OG walls are like that, the new ones are drywall and framing. It's a guessing game! Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roni March 30, 2022 Share March 30, 2022 2 hours ago, AlanM said: If you cut a hole in the floor for reef plumbing just make it the right size for an HVAC floor vent, then when you move you can put a vent register in there and it will look fine. They'll just eventually discover that nothing comes out of the mystery vent in that room. Yup, that's what I did in each build. In addition in the old house had plumbing running in an unfinished basement, which was later finished. Left all the plumbing in the wall since there was no point in removing. If the new owners ever do repair work, it'll certainly confuse the plumbers. In this house, have a very small hole behind each tank and ran 6 types of tubing. At the least, can set up remote top off and auto water change, which makes maintenance easier even if you run two systems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 30, 2022 Author Share March 30, 2022 26 minutes ago, roni said: Yup, that's what I did in each build. In addition in the old house had plumbing running in an unfinished basement, which was later finished. Left all the plumbing in the wall since there was no point in removing. If the new owners ever do repair work, it'll certainly confuse the plumbers. In this house, have a very small hole behind each tank and ran 6 types of tubing. At the least, can set up remote top off and auto water change, which makes maintenance easier even if you run two systems At least for RO and water changes, right!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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