TonyInVa April 8, 2017 Share April 8, 2017 I have some green/brownish zoanthids that are taking over my tank. They are growwing on my acans, acros and prized corals. I think the got in as a hitchhiker. I tried smothering them with kalk and killed all that I could see, but they came back. I don't see any way off getting rid of them. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ford April 8, 2017 Share April 8, 2017 I have used aiptasia x on zoas before and they melted never to return. Only problem is most everything thing else it touched melted too so use at your own risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k April 8, 2017 Share April 8, 2017 remove them carefully with a scalpel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 8, 2017 Share April 8, 2017 Take a closeup of them and post the picture. I'm interested in seeing what you're dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overklok April 13, 2017 Share April 13, 2017 Could be palythoas, be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethsolomon April 13, 2017 Share April 13, 2017 Take a closeup of them and post the picture. I'm interested in seeing what you're dealing with. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark April 13, 2017 Share April 13, 2017 This is what worked for me on an unknown paly and GSP. Based on known palys with toxin, I didn't think it was likely with mine. - Remove rock from tank - Take rock outside to well ventilated area and wear a mask - Use a Pen torch to burn them off - Put rock back in tank Total time ~ 30 minutes including prep Risk is paly toxin. However, my research (unscientific) indicated that a torch heat would basically destroy it. Doing it outside in a well ventilated area with a mask reduces risk even further. Please research your zoa/paly and only do this if you think the risk is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 13, 2017 Share April 13, 2017 This is what worked for me on an unknown paly and GSP. Based on known palys with toxin, I didn't think it was likely with mine. - Remove rock from tank - Take rock outside to well ventilated area and wear a mask - Use a Pen torch to burn them off - Put rock back in tank Total time ~ 30 minutes including prep Risk is paly toxin. However, my research (unscientific) indicated that a torch heat would basically destroy it. Doing it outside in a well ventilated area with a mask reduces risk even further. Please research your zoa/paly and only do this if you think the risk is worth it. Don't do this. If you're dealing with a species with a high level of palytoxin, any risk of aerosolizing the toxin can be severe with bad results. Post a picture. We'll at least be able to tell you if it's likely to be the kind of palythoa that's (more common around DC and which has) sent a few people here to the hospital and a few others that should have gone (including me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruleyii April 13, 2017 Share April 13, 2017 Don't do this. If you're dealing with a species with a high level of palytoxin, any risk of aerosolizing the toxin can be severe with bad results. Post a picture. We'll at least be able to tell you if it's likely to be the kind of palythoa that's (more common around DC and which has) sent a few people here to the hospital and a few others that should have gone (including me). +1 I've also read that the palytoxin doesn't just vary from species to species like most people think, but also within the same colony. You could have never had an issue before with a species in the past in there might be one polyp that is more toxic than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lazar April 13, 2017 Share April 13, 2017 I've had great success removing xenia by using a piece of gauze between my thumb and forefinger to grip the xenia and pull it off the rock in one piece. This technique leaves little to no tissue on the rock, and doesn't spill nasty coral guts into the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khh27 April 14, 2017 Share April 14, 2017 (edited) + heating the rock could make it explode. Due to possible trapped air pockets Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Edited April 14, 2017 by khh27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark April 14, 2017 Share April 14, 2017 (edited) Don't do this. If you're dealing with a species with a high level of palytoxin, any risk of aerosolizing the toxin can be severe with bad results. Post a picture. We'll at least be able to tell you if it's likely to be the kind of palythoa that's (more common around DC and which has) sent a few people here to the hospital and a few others that should have gone (including me). Again my thought process was: Palytoxin is a fatty alcohol compound that should be destroyed by high temperatures. A pen torch is about 1300 degrees...you are basically sterilizing what you are torching. However, understand the symptoms of palytoxin, and decide if it's worth the risk. The paly I was working with was not a 'known' toxic paly although I was told it's name is 'toxic revenge'. I also took all precautions with ventilation, mask, and glasses to burn them off. Edited April 14, 2017 by arking_mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 14, 2017 Share April 14, 2017 Again my thought process was: Palytoxin is a fatty alcohol compound that should be destroyed by high temperatures. A pen torch is about 1300 degrees...you are basically sterilizing what you are torching. However, understand the symptoms of palytoxin, and decide if it's worth the risk. The paly I was working with was not a 'known' toxic paly although I was told it's name is 'toxic revenge'. I also took all precautions with ventilation, mask, and glasses to burn them off. Understood. However, torching does not ensure that all toxin is destroyed. You might aerosolize some parts as tissue explodes or is heated. A former member here, Steve Outlaw, tried boiling some paly's off and breathed in aerosolized toxin. He wound up in the ER and the hospital for several days. His case was documented in several articles and even CDC studies as I recall. The particular paly that Steve fell victim to was, at one time, not uncommon here in the DC area. In fact, until this past summer, I still had them in my tank. I think, however, I finally got rid of them. Other members (and their families) here have also suffered exposure to palytoxin with varying levels of symptoms. Because of the higher risk associated with this particular species/variant here in the DC area, it's good practice to be aware of the risks and be extra cautious. Most palythoas and zoanthids appear to have much lower concentrations of (potentially lethal) palytoxin. This one variant that I've seen, however, has the potential to kill you if you're not careful. Here's a 2015 CDC article about an experience similar to the one that Steve suffered years before (sometime in 2011, I think). Reading down a ways, you'll see that the article references the palythoa zoanthids found in the MD/VA region. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6431a4.htm "Genetic analysis (2) determined that both toxin-containing zoanthid samples were consistent with previous molecular identifications of a highly toxic variety of Palythoa species collected from multiple aquarium shops in Maryland and Virginia, and from three similar aquarium-related poisoning events in New York, Ohio, and Virginia. Both specimens were genetically and visually distinct from the nontoxic or weakly toxic specimens from this case and similar previous cases." It's a fascinating article and I recommend reading it and doing some other research into aquarist exposure to palytoxin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark April 14, 2017 Share April 14, 2017 Boiling would NOT destroy the toxin! I had read about that incident in my research. I was also preserving the rest of my coral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethsolomon April 14, 2017 Share April 14, 2017 Again my thought process was: Palytoxin is a fatty alcohol compound that should be destroyed by high temperatures. A pen torch is about 1300 degrees...you are basically sterilizing what you are torching. However, understand the symptoms of palytoxin, and decide if it's worth the risk. The paly I was working with was not a 'known' toxic paly although I was told it's name is 'toxic revenge'. I also took all precautions with ventilation, mask, and glasses to burn them off. As much as it worked for you, I defenetly do not think you should be recommending this to anyone. If they do this and do it a bit differently and they get hurt. I am sure they will hold you responsible whether you are liable or not. There are plenty of safe ways of removal that don't need an extreme heat source to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 14, 2017 Share April 14, 2017 Boiling would NOT destroy the toxin! I had read about that incident in my research. I was also preserving the rest of my coral. Mark, that wasn't my point. It's that aerosolizing the toxin has been proven harmful. Torching won't contain all the toxin and expose it to heat, but could quite likely cause cells to explode with organic matter, including toxin, being distributed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark April 14, 2017 Share April 14, 2017 Ok. I take back my suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa April 15, 2017 Author Share April 15, 2017 I have been very busy and unable to take a pic. I will do so as soon as I can Bad thing is It is almost on all rocks as well as rocks with anemones, acro,and acans, so pulling the rock may not be an option. But I am so fed up with them I am willing to start over. I will get a pic soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethsolomon April 15, 2017 Share April 15, 2017 I would use a combination of kawlkwaser paste and tweezers to kill and remove the pallys Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 15, 2017 Share April 15, 2017 I have been very busy and unable to take a pic. I will do so as soon as I can Bad thing is It is almost on all rocks as well as rocks with anemones, acro,and acans, so pulling the rock may not be an option. But I am so fed up with them I am willing to start over. I will get a pic soon. Tony, the ones that I had were ugly - brown to olive brown - and about a half inch across. They spread across the rock and, even with kalk paste, they kept coming back. (Didn't kill them and, even if I did, there were others in places I couldn't reach.) This past summer, before I knew that I had a heart valve problem, I started to reboot my system. Taking the rock out 1/3 at a time, I set them in a trashcan outside that was 1/3 full of water. (I was fully gloved, wore a face shield and a pesticide-rated respirator. I really didn't want to get hit by these a fourth time.) After loading up, I poured a half gallon of muriatic acid in the water, put the lid on the trashcan and walked away for a couple of hours. The acid wiped out the palys and etched the rock. I hosed all the rock down, taking care to rinse off any remaining organics that I could identify. The process seemed to work because I've not seen another since. Yeah, pretty extreme. But I'd been battling them on and off for something like 8 years and it was time to prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyInVa April 16, 2017 Author Share April 16, 2017 Here is what they look like. I think you guys are right. They are probably pallys and not zoas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethsolomon April 16, 2017 Share April 16, 2017 Some Texas trash pallys Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mari.harutunian April 16, 2017 Share April 16, 2017 Do you guys think they would die with an injection of lemon juice? I feel like I've heard that as a remedy for Aiptasia. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 16, 2017 Share April 16, 2017 Be careful with those. They look similar, but not exactly, like the ones that I was dealing with. Better to be safe than sorry. There's a picture in this 2011 blog entry of the ones that were making the rounds here sometime back. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/04/05/worlds-2nd-deadliest-poison-in-an-aquarium-store-near-you/#.WPLcKGnythE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark April 16, 2017 Share April 16, 2017 Wow. Very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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