Dosing TOO MUCH Nitrifying Bacteria? + Stability Question

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I've cycled my tank for about 2-3 weeks now so it's pretty much done but this time I dosed a lot of ammonia and a LOT of nitrifying bacteria. I dosed the normal amount of Aquaforest Bio S for the 3ish weeks now and along with that I also dosed almost the entire bottle of Aquavitro's Seed. As I said, I  dosed about 5ppm of ammonia and along with that let around 4-5 silversides rot in the tank. My ammonia was gone in about 3ish days but to be careful I let the tank cycle for another 2 weeks. I just want to know for future reference... was that too much nitrifying bacteria?

AND 

Question Part 2. I have to start adding my corals and fish pretty early and I know that new tanks have problems with stability. Is there a way to keep it stable? 

[Joshifer]

3 days is a long time to process 5PPM. Mine processed that over night. Then again my rocks old. I never started off a tank "new" I always looked for old established rock. And live sand. And bio spira I had everything cycled in days.

 

I don't think you can OD bacteria. Bio spira says pour the whole thing in. Same with dr tims. The only bacteria I seen with dosage was Seachem stability. Which also works but slower.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Joshifer

[sethsolomon]

I think with all you have dosed you should wait 2 weeks and not add anything else and let it cycle.  Also, remove all but 1 silverside.  trying to go too fast will result in nasty algae problems.  Things you need to do now is test for Nitrite and Nitrate.  and if your nitrite is 0. you should be good to add some cleaners within a week.  and slowly start adding fish in 2 weeks.  I know setting up a new tank is exciting and you want to get it rolling. but take your time and go slowly.

[Bruleyii]

I can echo what seth is saying. I went to fast and I have been battling algae for way too long. It's not fun.

[Origami]

I've cycled my tank for about 2-3 weeks now so it's pretty much done but this time I dosed a lot of ammonia and a LOT of nitrifying bacteria. I dosed the normal amount of Aquaforest Bio S for the 3ish weeks now and along with that I also dosed almost the entire bottle of Aquavitro's Seed. As I said, I  dosed about 5ppm of ammonia and along with that let around 4-5 silversides rot in the tank. My ammonia was gone in about 3ish days but to be careful I let the tank cycle for another 2 weeks. I just want to know for future reference... was that too much nitrifying bacteria?

 

AND 

 

Question Part 2. I have to start adding my corals and fish pretty early and I know that new tanks have problems with stability. Is there a way to keep it stable? 

 

Ammonia, while not a disinfectant, is powerful stuff and toxic to a lot of aquatic life and even some bacteria. Too much ammonia can stall the growth of some desirable bacteria until the levels reduce (through evaporation and other means), thereby delaying your time to fully cycle. In addition, if any of your rock was populated with living stuff (such as sponges, sessile inverts, etc.), high levels of ammonia can kill those off. This leads to their decomposition and further elevates the ammonia levels (which can cause a spiraling die-off, and also delay cycling as even more ammonia  now has to be processed).

 

Personally, when I cycle a tank where there's anything living on the rock, I like to limit the ammonia level to 1 ppm or less and to dose, as needed, to keep it at 1 ppm. By providing a steady stream of ammonia, you're encouraging the development (reproduction) of aerobic bacteria. As their numbers increase, that 1 ppm will decrease faster; but as long as you're replenishing the ammonia source, the colony continues to be fed. Once the food source dries up, though, the population decreases until it reaches the point where there's equilibrium between the food source and the consumers. So biological filtration expands and contracts to meet the available food. 

 

Do you need bacteria in a bottle? Probably not. Bacteria are in the air. They're on your skin. They're everywhere. Multiple generations have started tanks from scratch without bacteria in a bottle.

 

Can you use too much? Probably not. However, keep in mind that if there's not enough food for them to consume, they'll die and, like any other carbon-based life form, will decompose to release ammonia, water, carbon dioxide, etc. It's the circle of life right down to the molecular level.

 

Stability comes largely from two things: First, your tank develops biological diversity from bacteria, algae, micro and macro-organisms (including pods), and higher level life forms. And, second, your setup and your husbandry practices (including equipment and patience).  Keeping salinity stable, for example, can be enhanced using an auto-top off unit rather than topping off by hand once a day. Frequent water changes can help reduce the build up of pollutants. Feeding just what's needed can keep the water clean, too. Letting your tank's biodiversity populate from the bottom up - for example, doing more than just nitrogen cycling the tank, but also encouraging the development of pods and microorganisms before introducing higher level predators (fish, etc.) to the food chain allows for balanced and sustainable biodiversity. If you introduce predators too early, they will consume the level below them to the point where their numbers can't be sustained for the long haul. You wind up with an unbalanced ecosystem with other problems showing up - cyano, etc.

 

So, is there anything you can do to encourage stability? Yeah. Build your ecosystem up from the bottom up. Get some pods into the tank and let them multiply for 6-8 weeks before introducing predators. Then start introducing them from the lower level up. Tony Vargas advocated for this approach years ago as one that is common in parts of Europe. 

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Ammonia, while not a disinfectant, is powerful stuff and toxic to a lot of aquatic life and even some bacteria. Too much ammonia can stall the growth of some desirable bacteria until the levels reduce (through evaporation and other means), thereby delaying your time to fully cycle. In addition, if any of your rock was populated with living stuff (such as sponges, sessile inverts, etc.), high levels of ammonia can kill those off. This leads to their decomposition and further elevates the ammonia levels (which can cause a spiraling die-off, and also delay cycling as even more ammonia now has to be processed).

 

Personally, when I cycle a tank where there's anything living on the rock, I like to limit the ammonia level to 1 ppm or less and to dose, as needed, to keep it at 1 ppm. By providing a steady stream of ammonia, you're encouraging the development (reproduction) of aerobic bacteria. As their numbers increase, that 1 ppm will decrease faster; but as long as you're replenishing the ammonia source, the colony continues to be fed. Once the food source dries up, though, the population decreases until it reaches the point where there's equilibrium between the food source and the consumers. So biological filtration expands and contracts to meet the available food.

 

Do you need bacteria in a bottle? Probably not. Bacteria are in the air. They're on your skin. They're everywhere. Multiple generations have started tanks from scratch without bacteria in a bottle.

 

Can you use too much? Probably not. However, keep in mind that if there's not enough food for them to consume, they'll die and, like any other carbon-based life form, will decompose to release ammonia, water, carbon dioxide, etc. It's the circle of life right down to the molecular level.

 

Stability comes largely from two things: First, your tank develops biological diversity from bacteria, algae, micro and macro-organisms (including pods), and higher level life forms. And, second, your setup and your husbandry practices (including equipment and patience). Keeping salinity stable, for example, can be enhanced using an auto-top off unit rather than topping off by hand once a day. Frequent water changes can help reduce the build up of pollutants. Feeding just what's needed can keep the water clean, too. Letting your tank's biodiversity populate from the bottom up - for example, doing more than just nitrogen cycling the tank, but also encouraging the development of pods and microorganisms before introducing higher level predators (fish, etc.) to the food chain allows for balanced and sustainable biodiversity. If you introduce predators too early, they will consume the level below them to the point where their numbers can't be sustained for the long haul. You wind up with an unbalanced ecosystem with other problems showing up - cyano, etc.

 

So, is there anything you can do to encourage stability? Yeah. Build your ecosystem up from the bottom up. Get some pods into the tank and let them multiply for 6-8 weeks before introducing predators. Then start introducing them from the lower level up. Tony Vargas advocated for this approach years ago as one that is common in parts of Europe.

Got it. Thanks for the info! I used quite of bit of live rock from my old tank so it should be partly ok. Im going to be getting pods even though my tank already does have some. I know that fish pretty much just died when ammonia is present. What about zoas? Sorry never really thought about the effects of ammonia of softies and was wondering if you knew

[Origami]

Got it. Thanks for the info! I used quite of bit of live rock from my old tank so it should be partly ok. Im going to be getting pods even though my tank already does have some. I know that fish pretty much just died when ammonia is present. What about zoas? Sorry never really thought about the effects of ammonia of softies and was wondering if you knew

My guess is that they can probably tolerate 1 ppm or so of ammonia, maybe a tad higher. However, don't rush it. Let the bacteria develop. Here's a hint: Bacteria multiply faster at higher temperatures. So, if you turn up your heaters just a little (such as to 82 degrees or something), the bottom end of your biological filtration will develop more quickly.

[blank]

My guess is that they can probably tolerate 1 ppm or so of ammonia, maybe a tad higher. However, don't rush it. Let the bacteria develop. Here's a hint: Bacteria multiply faster at higher temperatures. So, if you turn up your heaters just a little (such as to 82 degrees or something), the bottom end of your biological filtration will develop more quickly.

Yeah I learned that from a post a year or so back! Tank is currently at 83

 

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[zygote2k]

After 25 years in the hobby and much of it doing services, I think that any form of bacteria in a bottle is no more than snake oil.

It's a great gimmick that promises much but delivers very little.

Cycling a tank takes 3-4 months if you do it correctly but Americans want everything fast.

Only bad things happen fast in a reef tank.

Add rock, sand, salt, water. Rock should be as fresh as possible to ensure biological diversity and ultimately a successful tank.

Run lights, skimmer, etc from day 1. Wait till rock grows out and algae is the dominant species. Then and only then would you add herbivores.

Sand bed takes 6-8 mo ths to become fully seeded enough to support sand sifting critters.

A CUC other than snails isn't usuallu needed.

[John Ford]

and to get TOTM one must add urine

[zygote2k]

and to get TOTM one must add urine

Many of the TOTM's have been started this way....

Edited October 7, 2016 by zygote2k