Trouble With Sump

[matt]

I'm tinkering with the plumbing on a 90 and having similar challenges. At this point I'm thinking I'll pull the return pipe and use the returnbulkhead for a main drain in a herbie set up. Not everyone thinks I should, and Rob posted some discussion that may help you if you don't want to do a herbie.... see my build thread.

[Squishie89]

So I got the valve from Avast, thanks guys!!!, and I put it on the return and I managed to get the surging to stop in the sump. My concerns now are that flow in the sump and from the return is awfully slow, water is still moving, but I can't even see it moving. And the return pump is making a noise due to the reduction, I knew it wasn't going to be happy about this, but is this a real problem and something I should address now?

[John Ford]

You should be able to find a happy middle point where the pumpnisnt making alot of noise and the drain isnt making alot of noise. I personally like a slow moving sump so my skimmer can process more than whats going through it at any givin time. Right now i have about 300 gph going through my sump and 800 gph going through my skimmer so i have over twice the turn over through my skimmer

[fishgate]

So I got the valve from Avast, thanks guys!!!, and I put it on the return and I managed to get the surging to stop in the sump. My concerns now are that flow in the sump and from the return is awfully slow, water is still moving, but I can't even see it moving. And the return pump is making a noise due to the reduction, I knew it wasn't going to be happy about this, but is this a real problem and something I should address now?

I think you need a bigger hole (vent) on your drain standpipe. How big is the current hole?

[Origami]

You're third video in post #10 is illuminating.

 

It doesn't look like you have a standard Durso design. Instead, it looks like there's a strainer installed at a right angle on the tee. I also saw that the water level is rising in the overflow until it covers the strainer. You didn't stay on the overflow compartment long enough, though, to see if the level is suddenly falling which would indicate that you're siphoning (which would cause true surges). 

 

I also don't see a picture of the top of the drain plumbing, so I can't see what kind of venting that you have there, if any. Can you shoot some video over the top of the overflow so we can see what it looks like there and also linger on the water level in the overflow for longer so that we can see if it's siphoning. (If you have an adequate hole in the top side of the tee, you won't be able to set up a siphon unless the air line or hole is blocked.) 

 

To convert this to a Durso design, remove the strainer and install an elbow (or a street elbow) in its place with the elbow pointed downward. Make sure that you have a vent on the topside of the tee. 

 

One other observation, Jessica: It doesn't look like you have a siphon break on your return line. That's forced you to set your return height right a the top of the water's edge where it's creating a lot of bubbles in the tank. If you drill a small hole right on the inside edge of the black elbow inside your overflow it'll act as a siphon break and allow you to put the locline return down lower in the water to avoid the bubbles. The hole will act as a "leak" when under pressure, but when the return pump is off, the leak stops and air is drawn in and stops any siphoning action that would occur otherwise. If the "leak" makes noise (when the stream hits the water in the overflow), you can zip tie a little filter foam over the opening to quiet it down.

[fishgate]

This is a video of my correctly running sump. The one thing you don't see is the top of the elbow on the standpipe has a 1/2" hole (video 2 has it).

 

 

[Squishie89]

Yeah I figured out what the "extra" 90* elbow was for and changed the pipe into a proper durso, HA! I will take more videos/pictures tonight. Thanks so much guys!

[s2nhle]

How about herbie setup. http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/

 

Tom, the drain valve is to adjust the water flow thru the 1" pipe to match with the water flow from pump to prevent any air. for safety, the 3/4" can be set up as emergency drain. The herbie method or the bean animal method will silent overflow and provide peace of mind at the same time. Like I have stated before, you can buy all of these adapters, pipes and fittings from Lowes (plumbing and irrigation section).

[Squishie89]

I took a close look at my display tank and found the siphon break hole in the return, I had no idea it was there (I feel like I just learned something new about my child). Looking at the temporary tank I can see it DOES NOT have a siphon break hole (which I think is ridiculous). The durso/drain pipe does have a ~1/8" drilled into the top. I have pictures videos coming soon, just need to upload them. I turned the valve all the way open so things were back to how they were and looked at the overflow, although there are small water level movements, nothing that would (in my opinion) define a true surging effect.

[Squishie89]

Okay here are the videos

http://squishie90gfowlr.tumblr.com/post/102574829665/sump-with-return-restricted
There is the sump showing with the return restricted.

 

http://squishie90gfowlr.tumblr.com/post/102573989830/i-apologize-for-the-sideways-view-tank-going-into
Here is the overflow with the return NOT restricted, I am so sorry for the sideways view

 

Here is the durso in the temporary tank

[wangspeed]

A siphon is the only way to guarantee silence. I run my overflow on my 90 in a Herbie setup.

 

 

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Warren

[Squishie89]

While a Herbie setup looks interesting, I am trying to go with what I am experienced with for this temporary tank to keep things simple and semi redundant. I may entertain other set ups for my display but I am trying to get this tank running so I can get it established for my fish and inverts. Not to mention doing any of these other set ups (Herbie, bean animal) would require more plumbing that I know little to none about.

 

 

For the siphon break hole in the return line, I am guessing it needs to stay above water to work? Can I drill the hole into the loc line piece and not the elbow if it still stays out of the water?

Edited November 14, 2014 by Squishie89

[AlanM]

Instead of a siphon break, what about just having enough room in the sump for it to siphon down wothout causing a flood?

[fishgate]

While a Herbie setup looks interesting, I am trying to go with what I am experienced with for this temporary tank to keep things simple and semi redundant. I may entertain other set ups for my display but I am trying to get this tank running so I can get it established for my fish and inverts. Not to mention doing any of these other set ups (Herbie, bean animal) would require more plumbing that I know little to none about.

 

 

For the siphon break hole in the return line, I am guessing it needs to stay above water to work? Can I drill the hole into the loc line piece and not the elbow if it still stays out of the water?

The siphon break hole can go anywhere you want. Just realize that the tank will siphon to the sump until enough water has drained that the siphon break is out of the water and breaks siphon stopping the flow to the sump. As long as your sump can handle that volume, you are good. 

 

I don't use a siphon break as Alan pointed out, my sump can handle any volume that would drain back to my sump in the event the return pump stops. TEST THIS ON YOUR SETUP IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO KNOW! The only down to that is my return loc lines are near the surface but I think it looks better anyway with them barely visible.

[wangspeed]

I also run without a siphon break. Just run the return output high and make sure there is room in the sump. Those holes can get clogged with algae, snails, or whatever other crud over time.

 

 

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Warren