YHSublime July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 Hey all, So most of you know, but for those who don't, I've totaled 6"ish Maxima Clams in my system. Consequently, I've had to up my calcium. Concequently, my Alkalinity has gone down, quite a bit. I was dosing even amounts (23ml for calc and alk) through-out the whole day. My numbers went like this Date Alk Ca 6/18 153 470 6/23 146 445 6/29 144 435 7/04 142 7/17 121 465 I'm happy with my calcium here, but in order to keep it there, and get my alk back to around the 140 (7.84dkh) 145 (8.2 dkh) how much should I be dosing of each solution to achieve what I'm looking for? I had no idea my alkalinity had dropped so low, possibly my overcompensation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 I've noticed that alk tends to form a wave over time- smooth ups and downs when plotted over a 3 year period. If you've been testing and recording since the life of your tank, you might notice a similiar trend. I don't worry about this mild up/down of alk but get concerned when there are drastic changes. I sometimes alter the mix ratio and the drip rate on the doser to change a trend in either direction. I suggest you do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 18, 2014 Author Share July 18, 2014 I've noticed that alk tends to form a wave over time- smooth ups and downs when plotted over a 3 year period. If you've been testing and recording since the life of your tank, you might notice a similiar trend. I don't worry about this mild up/down of alk but get concerned when there are drastic changes. I sometimes alter the mix ratio and the drip rate on the doser to change a trend in either direction. I suggest you do the same. Tank is shy a year. I have test results since the start. I have the same thing with alk, good advice, and observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 Clams probably use more alk as well as Ca, and you know it drops faster than Ca. Maybe up the alk dosing as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 18, 2014 Author Share July 18, 2014 Clams probably use more alk as well as Ca, and you know it drops faster than Ca. Maybe up the alk dosing as well? so they are both at 23 ml a day, do you think that 28 ml a day of each would be a good start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 If your Ca is holding steady, why would you up that one? Maybe just manually dose enough alk calculated from the BRS calculator to get it to the level you'd like to stay at, I like 150, and then up the Alk doser a bit and see what happens. I know there's supposed to be some kind of balance in the concentrations of ions in the BRS solution if you mix them to the correct ratios so in theory you'd dose the same of each, but other things use alk in the tank that don't use Ca as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 I would slowly raise your alk only over the course of a week or so. Today up the alk to 28 and test in 24 and 48 hrs. Continue to increase alk a few ml every 2 or 3 days until you get back to where you want. Just be careful not to go too fast. In my opinion it takes a few days for the change in dosing to level out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 I would slowly raise your alk only over the course of a week or so. Today up the alk to 28 and test in 24 and 48 hrs. Continue to increase alk a few ml every 2 or 3 days until you get back to where you want. Just be careful not to go too fast. In my opinion it takes a few days for the change in dosing to level out. Dump it in baby! I got more cavalier about dumping stuff in when Copps said a few meetings ago that his dosers dispense into cups which he manually dumps into his tank once per day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 18, 2014 Author Share July 18, 2014 I know there's supposed to be some kind of balance in the concentrations of ions in the BRS solution if you mix them to the correct ratios so in theory you'd dose the same of each, but other things use alk in the tank that don't use Ca as well. That was my logic, but isn't it 2 parts of Ca for every 1 of Alk? I don't know, I just work here. I would slowly raise your alk only over the course of a week or so. Today up the alk to 28 and test in 24 and 48 hrs. Continue to increase alk a few ml every 2 or 3 days until you get back to where you want. Just be careful not to go too fast. In my opinion it takes a few days for the change in dosing to level out. I'm traveling, so I won't be able to this weekend/today. I might just up it by 2 ml every day for now and see how that goes, I can't imagine it would be out of control. Dump it in baby! I got more cavalier about dumping stuff in when Copps said a few meetings ago that his dosers dispense into cups which he manually dumps into his tank once per day. I would be more cavalier if I had his size system. Comparing the thousands of gallons to my 200 (tops) makes it sound like there had to be a bit of give and take depending on volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HgrReefs July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 I would slowly raise your alk only over the course of a week or so. Today up the alk to 28 and test in 24 and 48 hrs. Continue to increase alk a few ml every 2 or 3 days until you get back to where you want. Just be careful not to go too fast. In my opinion it takes a few days for the change in dosing to level out. +1 I too would slowly raise the Alk to the point at which you want it. You have to be nimble though, as adding just the Alk over a period of time will cause your Ca to lower at some point. Get the Alk to whatever number you have predetermined as ideal for your system watching your Ca as you move forward. Once you hit the spot where Ca starts to lower, dose both parts until you achieve your goal. That's been my experience with 2-part over time. Randy Holmes Farley details how to play around with it here: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueTricia July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 +1 I too would slowly raise the Alk to the point at which you want it. You have to be nimble though, as adding just the Alk over a period of time will cause your Ca to lower at some point. Get the Alk to whatever number you have predetermined as ideal for your system watching your Ca as you move forward. Once you hit the spot where Ca starts to lower, dose both parts until you achieve your goal. That's been my experience with 2-part over time. Randy Holmes Farley details how to play around with it here: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry +1 that article is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 18, 2014 Author Share July 18, 2014 +1 I too would slowly raise the Alk to the point at which you want it. You have to be nimble though, as adding just the Alk over a period of time will cause your Ca to lower at some point. Get the Alk to whatever number you have predetermined as ideal for your system watching your Ca as you move forward. Once you hit the spot where Ca starts to lower, dose both parts until you achieve your goal. That's been my experience with 2-part over time. Randy Holmes Farley details how to play around with it here: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry +1 I too would slowly raise the Alk to the point at which you want it. You have to be nimble though, as adding just the Alk over a period of time will cause your Ca to lower at some point. Get the Alk to whatever number you have predetermined as ideal for your system watching your Ca as you move forward. Once you hit the spot where Ca starts to lower, dose both parts until you achieve your goal. That's been my experience with 2-part over time. Randy Holmes Farley details how to play around with it here: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry Awesome. Yeah, I've read this before. It appears my situation is zone 4, high calcium and low alkalinity. If i want to get from here: 6.72 dkh (current) 8 dkh (desired) To desired, then: NEED: 164.5 ml5.5 fl oz 32.9 tsp Since this is the case (give or take 1.5 dkh difference) I figure I could safety do this in a day, but will do it over 3. I am going to propose I take my dosing of 23ml a day to 50ml a day for just alk, does this sound problematic if I'm not able to test until day 3? Or should I wait till I get back and then address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HgrReefs July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 Personally, I would do it over several days. From experience, Alk swings scare the daylights out of me, so I have always done my adjustments over a series of days. Recently, I had gone too long without checking my Ca levels. Turned out, I ended up with my Ca going down to 360 while my Alk hovered around 7.0dkh (I keep my Alk around 7.8dkh and my Ca around 420). I took 5 days to get things back in check. I know I could have done my adjustment in one day, I just find it easier to dial in my maintenance dose over the course of several days. Now that I'm rambling, the numbers say you should be fine. Would I move forward with that plan? I wouldn't. That said, I may be a little over cautious... Hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 18, 2014 Author Share July 18, 2014 Now that I'm rambling, the numbers say you should be fine. Would I move forward with that plan? I wouldn't. That said, I may be a little over cautious... Hah! It shows in your tank! I think I will up my dosing to 33 ml per day (that means it should take 5 days to achieve my results) good lord willing and the creek don't rise. I can toggle and adjust from there, but at least I won't have to worry about all at once changes. Just talking it out. That way if somebody sees a stupid mistake that I might be about to make, they can quickly stop me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 Sounds like a good plan. Oh, and NO MORE CLAMS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 18, 2014 Author Share July 18, 2014 Oh, and NO MORE CLAMS! I can't promise.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k July 18, 2014 Share July 18, 2014 what's your Mg level? keep the calcium mixture the same and raise the alkalinity mixture and continue to dose both at current rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 19, 2014 Author Share July 19, 2014 what's your Mg level? keep the calcium mixture the same and raise the alkalinity mixture and continue to dose both at current rate. Mg is at 1250 What do you mean dose both at the current rate? I am currently dosing both at 23ml a day. Here is the program for my apex for alk: Fallback OFF OSC 000:00/000:52/059:08 Then ON It runs every hour on the hour. My calcium runs every hour on the half hour. So you're saying keep calcium like so, and do as planned like I mentioned above, take my alk up to 30ml a day, or should I go higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k July 19, 2014 Share July 19, 2014 What's your recipe for either? Mine is 2c of cal per gal and alk is 1.75c per gal. weaker or stronger solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 19, 2014 Author Share July 19, 2014 I do 2 cups for alk and 2.5 for calc, both per gallon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k July 19, 2014 Share July 19, 2014 raise the alk mixture and keep the current rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 20, 2014 Author Share July 20, 2014 raise the alk mixture and keep the current rate. Half a cup more? One cup more? Still my first rodeo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami July 22, 2014 Share July 22, 2014 Raise the alk. You can go 1 dKH per day if you'd like. So two steps for you. I've been more aggressive at times. Here's the caution that I'd give: If dosing alkalinity using sodium carbonate (baked baking soda), you have to be very careful about the large upward spike in pH that comes about as it consumes free CO2 in your tank. If using sodium carbonate, you need to use a dripper. Don't dump. If you use sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), then there's a slight pH depression that results after addition. Recovery is a bit faster so you can add it faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime July 22, 2014 Author Share July 22, 2014 Raise the alk. You can go 1 dKH per day if you'd like. So two steps for you. I've been more aggressive at times. Here's the caution that I'd give: If dosing alkalinity using sodium carbonate (baked baking soda), you have to be very careful about the large upward spike in pH that comes about as it consumes free CO2 in your tank. If using sodium carbonate, you need to use a dripper. Don't dump. If you use sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), then there's a slight pH depression that results after addition. Recovery is a bit faster so you can add it faster. Thanks, Tom. Here is what I did. I added another cup of the BRS Sodium Carbonate into the mix. That is 1 more cup than the two I normally do for a gallon. So 3 cups sodium carbonate, and 2.5 cups of calcium per gallon. My numbers today: Alk: 7.84 dkh (140) Calc: 460 I'm going to continue to monitor my alk over the next few days and make sure it's not steady rising or sinking, and for now think all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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