nuisance GFCI trips at child care center tank

[AlanM]

The child care center tank from WAMAS that I've posted about has a Deep Blue 4x54W T5 fixture.  It works very well and I'm buying new bulbs for it, but it seems to be tripping the wall GFCI that the electricians installed.  It's just the one circuit for the tank, so the trips take out the entire tank power, and, of course, the trips mostly happen on the weekend, so the tank is cool, dark, and still when I get there Monday morning. 

 

The fixture has a cord with an integrated GFCI on the plug, like hair dryers sometimes have, but that never trips.  Just the wall one trips.  If I push the buttons on the control panel to set the current time or the timers for the blue and white channels I can sometimes also get it to trip, so I am reasonably certain there is something going on in the controls or the timing circuits that is shorting out in that low voltage control portion and tripping the GFCI.  Maybe there's a little salt in there and the A/C is dialed back for the weekend which makes it more humid which adds some moisture to the salt and causes a short.  There's apparently something minor going on with the light fixture, but I really don't want to spend the money to replace that if I can avoid it. 

 

One thing that I've heard can cause a nuisance trip is having a portable GFCI plugged into a wall-installed GFCI.    Do you think it would possibly prevent a trip if I cut off the end of the light cord and put a regular plug on there which would let the wall sense the current without being interfered with by a less sensitive GFCI config?  If anyone has been inside one of these fixtures do you think there's a chance I could take it apart enough to see what's leaking current?

 

In other possibilities, does anyone have a 4 bulb 54W fixture sitting around gathering dust for cheap?  I have some LED PAR38s that I could install, but already ordered bulbs for this fixture from the reefgeek group buy, so I'd like to use em.

[howaboutme]

I've heard T5HO's can do this. When I had T5HOs running, it caused my wall mounted GFCI to trip numerous times. There's nothing in between the fixture and the outlet other than timers so I'm not sure if you take out the portable GFCI if it would help.

[AlanM]

I met with the electricians this morning and they pointed out that they could get it to trip by playing with the little control panel, so they said it wasn't their problem that there was something wrong with the light and called it a day.

 

If I'd been thinking clearly I would have asked them to put a regular outlet on the wall, then make a little box with a cord and two separate GFCI plugs in it.  I'd put the light on one and everything else on the other and let the light trip from time to time. 

[howaboutme]

If I'd been thinking clearly I would have asked them to put a regular outlet on the wall, then make a little box with a cord and two separate GFCI plugs in it.  I'd put the light on one and everything else on the other and let the light trip from time to time. 

 

That's how people have corrected that problem in my research..or if they have 2 outlets, 1 is GFCI and the other isn't.

[wildcrazyjoker81]

I had to ditch using the built in timers and get individual ones to stop my 48" T5HO's from tripping the breaker. Not sure why, but I have yet to have my it trip since.

[Coral Hind]

This was a common issue when T5's first came out and a topic that was brought up often here on the boards. With the switch to LED's I don't see this issue much anymore. I'm surprised your electrician didn't know it was the type of lighting, probably not the switch, that tripped it. Lighting ballasts, both MH and T5, can cause nuisance tripping of GFCI protected circuits at start up because of the ballast's capacitance properties. Some T5 fixtures have MOV's which can also cause a tripping condition. T5's can also cause a trip after it has been on for a while because of the static bleed off from the bulbs to the grounded fixture. Some filtered power strips using MOV's can also cause a GFCI to trip when an item is powering up.

[AlanM]

OK, thanks for the info.  If they don't already know, I doubt I'll be able to convince them.  What do you suggest I do?  Would a nice Isobar power strip or something that would filter any weirdness help between the T5 and the GFCI? 

 

So it was probably not the touch panel that was leaking and tripping, but rather the controls were turning on the light, which was causing the trip.  That's consistent with it tripping on weekends when no one is touching the panel...

[Coral Hind]

Correct, not the controls so much as the ballast and fixture. A powerstrip might make things worse so I wouldn't try that. I would plug the light into a stand alone portable GFCI device and then directly to a regular non GFCI outlet. If this tank was at the house I would say don't worry about even using a GFCI on the lights but because of where that tank is at and liability concerns I would try the portable GFCI. That way if it does trip only the lights go out.

 

Make sure to get one that is "automatic reset" like these:

http://www.marinedepot.com/Tower_Inline_GFCI_Cord_Set_with_Single_Connector_%2818_inch%29_GFCI_Extension_Cords_Grounding_Probes_Surge_Protectors_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-Tower_Manufacturing-TW38018-FIMIGF-vi.html

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tower-Manufacturing-Corporation-2-ft-In-Line-GFCI-Triple-Tap-Cord-Automatic-Reset-30338024/202510257

[Djplus1]

Do what Jack said. Add a second outlet, that's non GFCI next to that outlet.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Djplus1

[Djplus1]

Just make sure the power coming into the outlets hits the non GFCI first, then only the GFCI outlet is protected.

[AlanM]

Correct, not the controls so much as the ballast and fixture. A powerstrip might make things worse so I wouldn't try that. I would plug the light into a stand alone portable GFCI device and then directly to a regular non GFCI outlet. If this tank was at the house I would say don't worry about even using a GFCI on the lights but because of where that tank is at and liability concerns I would try the portable GFCI. That way if it does trip only the lights go out.

 

Make sure to get one that is "automatic reset" like these:

http://www.marinedepot.com/Tower_Inline_GFCI_Cord_Set_with_Single_Connector_(18_inch)_GFCI_Extension_Cords_Grounding_Probes_Surge_Protectors_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-Tower_Manufacturing-TW38018-FIMIGF-vi.html

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tower-Manufacturing-Corporation-2-ft-In-Line-GFCI-Triple-Tap-Cord-Automatic-Reset-30338024/202510257

Thanks. The light does have one integrated into the plug like a hair dryer often has. It has a test and reset button which does cause it to trip and reset. I am guessing it is one that's designed to not trip when a T5HO fires.

 

The tank is in front of the plug, but there's room to replace the outlet. Not a comfortable job, but doable. It would be tough to switch the single gang box for a double gang box and put a regular and GFCI outlet in the wall, so I'd propose to them that they install a non-GFCI in the wall and I'd plug the light right into the wall and the rest of the gear into a portable GFCI like Coral Hind posted. Sound like a plan?

[Coral Hind]

That sounds like a good plan. If the light fixture has a built in GFCI cord cap then you are fine plugging it directly into a non GFCI protected circuit.

[davelin315]

I would go ahead and cut the whole box out if you can and put a double in with a GFCI and a regular socket. Just run the line and load from the line and they will run independently of each other. Removing the GFCI on a tank near kids is dangerous and who knows if it could cause a problem with fire safety inspections.

[Coral Hind]

He said he was going to have portable GFCI adapters on the items plugged into non GFCI outlets so things will still be protected.

[AlanM]

Installing a double box ain't gonna happen. 

 

Also, it's on a federal campus, so there are no county code inspections.  We have internal electricians that will "certify" to code, but if I run into issues getting the GFCI removed and a regular outlet installed I will have to just change out the light fixture and spend the money to buy LEDs or something.

[davelin315]

Missed the portable part, just make sure you have them matched up to the breaker amperage or they will trip any time the power flickers (although I recall reading something above about auto-resetting GFCIs, not sure how this would work or why since a trip is an indication something is wrong).

[AlanM]

I can't convince them to change them out. I think this may be my solution. Four par38 LED bulbs.

 

Edited June 12, 2014 by AlanM

[YHSublime]

Haha! There you go! Post a pic up after the switch!

[Coral Hind]

Missed the portable part, just make sure you have them matched up to the breaker amperage or they will trip any time the power flickers (although I recall reading something above about auto-resetting GFCIs, not sure how this would work or why since a trip is an indication something is wrong).

You are a little confused on the term "auto-resetting" or "latching" of the GFCI. The auto-resetting does not automatically reset after a groud fault intiated trip. It only keeps the power on when power is lost and then restored. If you have a non auto-resetting portable GFCI and you had a temp power failure when the power goes out it opens the circuit and when the power comes back on the GFCI would remain off until you manually pushed the reset botton. In wall GFCI's are mostly all auto reset types. The portable ones are different because of safety concerns. It helps to prevent power tools left in the on position when someone unplugs the cord from unexpectedly running when power is restored.