Sick Fish, Please Help

[Squishie89]

Pender Exotics is actually the vet I use for my birds, seriously best exotics practice in the DMV, hands down.

 

The ich is worse today. Yesterday it was low-moderate. Today it is moderate-bad. I just tried some live brine with no additives, just to see if I could get some sort of reaction and got nothing. I have been using selcon otherwise everytime with his food, I use that stuff like some people use ketchup, on everything. I will try garlic later tonight. Water is almost ready for the first of way too many water changes, just needs to be a bit warmer. Bacteria in the tank has already been comprimised (thanks ammonia alert badge).

 

So, I am wondering if due to all the great information and advice, to do the water change and put in some carbon, and stop the use of copper to try and get him to eat? I only made up 15g and it is a 20g tank, but I also only added 1ml (1/2 dose) of cupramine yesterday.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Squishie89

[monkiboy]

Water is almost ready for the first of way too many water changes, just needs to be a bit warmer. Bacteria in the tank has already been comprimised (thanks ammonia alert badge).

if the ammonia badge has alerted you to presence of ammonia, it may be too late. you need to do a water change immediately. in qt, especially smaller tanks, nutrient control has got to be the one of the most important things to being successful. nutrient control, nutrient control, nutrient control. you need to have water at the ready for at least daily water changes for a fish like that with the multiple efforts of feedings you are doing in a tank that size. if you have some sacrificial very porous rock from your reef you can use, use it as well. some dr. tim's one and only also goes a long way to set up bacterial colonization with a new qt tank.

 

 

So, I am wondering if due to all the great information and advice, to do the water change and put in some carbon, and stop the use of copper to try and get him to eat?

yes, that is what we are saying - get him eating. do not worry about treatment right now. he won't make it through treatment unless he's eating prior to beginning the regime or has sufficient fat reserves to battle it out without food.

 

also, if you have some 4" pvc tees and such for him, be sure he has some places to hide and feel secure in within that 20g qt which is a bit small for a fish the size of what i estimate to be around 5-6" from the video quantum posted originally.

 

g'luck!

[Squishie89]

He has plenty of room. He originally stayed in the right pvc 24/7 but now goes in both

 

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[scott711]

if the ammonia badge has alerted you to presence of ammonia, it may be too late. you need to do a water change immediately. in qt, especially smaller tanks, nutrient control has got to be the one of the most important things to being successful. nutrient control, nutrient control, nutrient control. you need to have water at the ready for at least daily water changes for a fish like that with the multiple efforts of feedings you are doing in a tank that size. if you have some sacrificial very porous rock from your reef you can use, use it as well. some dr. tim's one and only also goes a long way to set up bacterial colonization with a new qt tank. yes, that is what we are saying - get him eating. do not worry about treatment right now. he won't make it through treatment unless he's eating prior to beginning the regime or has sufficient fat reserves to battle it out without food.also, if you have some 4" pvc tees and such for him, be sure he has some places to hide and feel secure in within that 20g qt which is a bit small for a fish the size of what i estimate to be around 5-6" from the video quantum posted originally.g'luck!

+1 the fish will not do well if the water quality is good. Poor water quality can also suppress their appetite and can lead to death very quickly if not corrected

[Squishie89]

Should I do a freshwater dip on him?

I just got blackworms and more bacteria. On my way to do a wayer change and trying to feed him.

Is it worth it to try selcon and garlic at the same time?

 

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[scott711]

Don't do anything to stress it out more. Get water quality in check and get it eating

[Squishie89]

K copy that.

 

15g water change done. Had to remove him and put him in a container otherwise he would have been out of the water. Did my best to keep him oxygenated. Gigantic bag of carbon in the filter. 3 oz startsmart bacteria dosed. Tried some blackworms with selcon and garlic. He may have eaten one, but I cannot be certain. There is now a big white poop or thing coming out of his butt.

 

I'm trying here, really I am.

[Squishie89]

 

 

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[Jan]

You're doing great!! White poop is typically indicative of internal parasites. Did this fish eat in front of you at the LFS? 

[Squishie89]

He did! He ate like a pig! That has been the most frustrating thing.

 

Should I try and collect some of the poop and examine it? I have a microscope I can use.

 

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[Jan]

Oh, ok. I wouldn't know what to look for in poop and wouldn't bother. All I know is that white poop is a sign of parasites.

I really think placing him in hypo salinity for the ich is the safest way to go right now. Keep trying to feed him and watch those water parameters.

My male wouldn't eat either. I had to force feed him. I would not recommend anyone do that. I worked very closely with the supervisor of live aquaria and he talked me through all of it. I got some slack from it from others too. This is exactly why I gave up on getting male Genicanthus. All of them had issues and all, except for one died within days. the one that lasted longer died with 2 weeks. Between what I read about the catch methods, the size they came in (too big) and how stressed they get I gave up on getting males. I purchased females and hoped that they'd morph. All in all I lost 4 gorgeous large males; 2 watanabei and 2 melanospilos. It was horrific and exhausting.    

[Tracy G]

hypo salinity is a great idea as I have heard it can lower the fish's stress because they don't have to work as hard to process the salt.  Make sure to take it very slow.  I would do daily 10% water changes until the fish is healthy.  

[Squishie89]

Oh, ok. I wouldn't know what to look for in poop and wouldn't bother. All I know is that white poop is a sign of parasites.

 

I really think placing him in hypo salinity for the ich is the safest way to go right now. Keep trying to feed him and watch those water parameters.

 

My male wouldn't eat either. I had to force feed him. I would not recommend anyone do that. I worked very closely with the supervisor of live aquaria and he talked me through all of it. I got some slack from it from others too. This is exactly why I gave up on getting male Genicanthus. All of them had issues and all, except for one died within days. the one that lasted longer died with 2 weeks. Between what I read about the catch methods, the size they came in (too big) and how stressed they get I gave up on getting males. I purchased females and hoped that they'd morph. All in all I lost 4 gorgeous large males; 2 watanabei and 2 melanospilos. It was horrific and exhausting.    

Yeah I read about your experiences before.

 

I think I will let him rest tonight, he had a ROUGH evening (heck, so did I!). I will look into hypo.

 

It seems the poop broke off, he still has some stuff hanging out of him. I have no idea what is going on back there.

[monkiboy]

white stringy poop is indicative of internal intestinal worms. when healthy, fish can deal just fine with it and it's not a huge deal but can make it hard for stressed-out fish to keep weight. i think anyone would prefer to prophylactically treat for them symptomatic or not. like we talked about before, using praziquantel in the fish's food will take care of that after a few uses over the course of a couple weeks. for some reason a lot of folks use it in baths or in their shop's system's water thinking it will work much the same for intestinal worms (internal and very common) as it does for flukes (external and rarely seen); it does not and is rather pointless used in that fashion. 

Edited May 8, 2014 by monkiboy

[Squishie89]

That's the thing it was not stringy at all, it was very big and solid looking. In my last set of photos it is in the first photo.

 

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[Jan]

Prazipro works very well for tapeworms as well as flukes and other parasites. I've used it in my mixed reef and had very good results. - http://www.uskoi.com/prazipro.htm

I posted this a couple of years ago. It's a really good reference - http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/fish_diseases/fecal_disorders.html

[Squishie89]

Some good news! His ich is a bit better today. He is a lot more active (swimming from one pvc pipe to the other, sometimes going around the front) and actually came out to say hello to me, which has never happened. I tried some blackworms with selcon and garlic, and the powerhead off and he was just a bit interested. So I turned the powerhead back on and tried some live brine, no additives, and he ate!

[YHSublime]

Some good news! His ich is a bit better today. He is a lot more active (swimming from one pvc pipe to the other, sometimes going around the front) and actually came out to say hello to me, which has never happened. I tried some blackworms with selcon and garlic, and the powerhead off and he was just a bit interested. So I turned the powerhead back on and tried some live brine, no additives, and he ate!

 

Awesome start!

[JR-Tanked150]

Congrats on getting him to eat.

[Jan]

Fantastic!!! Great job.

Some good news! His ich is a bit better today. He is a lot more active (swimming from one pvc pipe to the other, sometimes going around the front) and actually came out to say hello to me, which has never happened. I tried some blackworms with selcon and garlic, and the powerhead off and he was just a bit interested. So I turned the powerhead back on and tried some live brine, no additives, and he ate!

[scott711]

keep him eating and make sure you keep your water quality very good.

[Sharkey18]

That's awesome. Congrats. Once he is eating you can nurse him back to health.

 

Well done. 

 

Uou are becoming an expert at bringing things back to life! 

[reeferindc]

WAMAS should consider inviting Dr. Torres to lecture on "Identifying Common Marine Fish illnesses and Diseases, and Various Treatment Options." something most would benefit from. She was eager to do something like this for WAMAS.

+1

[Squishie89]

Came home tonight to see the angel looking TONS better. Only maybe a few (noticeable) spots left. I gave him some brine with selcon, and he ate. 30 minutes ago I gave him frozen brine/mysis with selcon and he ate!! I know we are a long way away from declaring him cured, but definitely a good start! Pretty thrilled. He is also continuing with being more active. I put some reef photos up to try and help make him more comfortable.

 

An interesting note. Although I had only dosed 1ml of cupramine in a 20g tank and it was only in there for less than 24 hours, the only inverts noticeably affected were the stomatellas (they perished). The brittle stars and limpets (and vermetid snails and hydroids) are all pretty much okay from what I can see.

[gmerek2]

That's great! During quarantine I noticed MArine ick. It took over the clown pretty quickly lots of spots and not eating. I also was very impressed with cupramine. Within a few days all signs of the ick were gone and the fish was actually eating again. I tried hypo In the past and I had water quality issues probably from un ate food from a worsening fish. But it seemed harder to maintain clean water. Maybe not as much pooh eating bacteria can live in the hypo? Less buffers?