My tank has ich

[collettk]

They are white spots...only on my PB.

 

It's day 4 - I've completed the Rally treatment and have only dosed the Kick-Ich twice so far. Water looks a little cloudy. I imagine having th skimmer, UV, carbon, and gfo off might have something to do with it. The fish all seem healthy and active (except for the PB's spots and frail frame. However, his dots are small unlike before. He is more active though). I might turn back on the GFO. The instructions don't say it has to be off. I just have it off because its a part of a dual reactor.

 

One other note: the SF tang I return just a few days ago is doi g very well at the LFS.

[collettk]

Update: I did a water test with my API Saltwater Master's Test Kit.

 

I see spikes to everything

 

Ammonia .5ppm

Nitrite .25ppm (I have never even seen this one show anything but 0 before)

Nitrate 10ppm

 

I added some Continuum Bacter gen-M to try to introduce additional bacteria to try to combat this.

[johnnybv]

cysts already on the fish will not die, they have to go through their life cycle then drop off which is hen the kick ich will kill them and break the cycle. So two things very important here, one keep the fish healthy by good feeding with garlic and selcon soaked foods, Make sure you stay on the kick ich schedule, one day off and you risk not breaking the ich cycle, and provide the best quality water you can, and that is hard to do with the protien skimmer off! I would reccomend Dr. Tims one and only over the Bacter Gen M to help eat that ammonia and build up a strong bacterial culture quickly. (ok I huess that was 3 things)

 

Also check out this post

http://wamas.org/forums/topic/59820-fish-health-understanding/

Edited August 29, 2013 by johnnybv

[Coral Hind]

Johnny,

From reading the thread you link, it sounds like the Kick Ich formula might have changed. Is that correct? I ask because I tried to use it several years ago and strictly followed the directions and it did nothing. If it has changed or improved I might try it again.

[collettk]

Johnny,

From reading the thread you link, it sounds like the Kick Ich formula might have changed. Is that correct? I ask because I tried to use it several years ago and strictly followed the directions and it did nothing. If it has changed or improved I might try it again.

I don't know what the old formula did but what it currently is suppose to do is bind to the free floating ich's silica so it cant swim or attach to the fish and die off because it needs a host.

[collettk]

Update:  PB is laying on its side under some rocks (still moving)...I don't think he is going to make it

 

cysts already on the fish will not die, they have to go through their life cycle then drop off which is hen the kick ich will kill them and break the cycle. So two things very important here, one keep the fish healthy by good feeding with garlic and selcon soaked foods, Make sure you stay on the kick ich schedule, one day off and you risk not breaking the ich cycle, and provide the best quality water you can, and that is hard to do with the protien skimmer off! I would reccomend Dr. Tims one and only over the Bacter Gen M to help eat that ammonia and build up a strong bacterial culture quickly. (ok I huess that was 3 things)

Also check out this post
http://wamas.org/forums/topic/59820-fish-health-understanding/

I'm going to do a 20% water change tomorrow.  I'll probably head to your store also to get some Dr Tims.

[sachabballi reef]

i am so sorry to hear this....so hard when everything is going fine and you add a fish and the whole thing blows up....just keep your eye on it because it will really screw your parameters if it starts to decay. 

[johnnybv]

I don't know what the old formula did but what it currently is suppose to do is bind to the free floating ich's silica so it cant swim or attach to the fish and die off because it needs a host.

you are 100% correct in how it works so it wont touch the cysts on the fish but break the life cycle. one thing about rally they are coniually testing and upgradeing to kill the new "superbugs" that are being morphed in closed systems

[collettk]

i am so sorry to hear this....so hard when everything is going fine and you add a fish and the whole thing blows up....just keep your eye on it because it will really screw your parameters if it starts to decay. 

it's definitely been a lot of highs(brief moments of accomplishment) and lows(challenges)  in the hobby for me so far.  Its rough when a fish suffers/dies in my care because you can just feel how much the fish is counting on you to survive.  The PB was still alive this morning, still laying down so I don't know for how much longer.

 

I was told by someone at a LFS not to worry about getting dead fish out the tank because that's one of the jobs of the cleanup crew.  I hope I don't have to fish him out if he dies...i don't want to disrupt my rocks again.  The fish hate that and I can never seem to get the rocks back the way I had it. 

[YHSublime]

it's definitely been a lot of highs(brief moments of accomplishment) and lows(challenges)  in the hobby for me so far.  Its rough when a fish suffers/dies in my care because you can just feel how much the fish is counting on you to survive.  The PB was still alive this morning, still laying down so I don't know for how much longer.

 

I was told by someone at a LFS not to worry about getting dead fish out the tank because that's one of the jobs of the cleanup crew.  I hope I don't have to fish him out if he dies...i don't want to disrupt my rocks again.  The fish hate that and I can never seem to get the rocks back the way I had it. 

 

I don't have any advice for you, but I hope the fish comes around. I tried to search a couple of other threads, and they all yielded information along the lines of: Powder Blues are hard to keep, and QT if possible, and also, QT will stress an already stressed fish out. There are a lot of options. Seems like all you can do is ride it out, and let it be. I don't know if a lights out would in any way shape or form help, but maybe it will keep it from stressing out more, and mellow out the tank inhabitants?

[zygote2k]

Goats.

[Coral Hind]

How is the fish doing today? 

 

I was told by someone at a LFS not to worry about getting dead fish out the tank because that's one of the jobs of the cleanup crew. 

It depends on how big the fish is, size and type of clean up crew, size of your system, current bio load to filter capacity, and if it would really pollute the tank or not if left alone. If it's small it would be cleaned up quickly, but a large fish like my 10" vlamingii could take several days and overload the system creating an ammonia spike, even tank crash. You have to decide if moving rocks is worth stirring up trapped nutrients and stressing the remaining fish or letting the carcass stay in the tank. 

[collettk]

Goats.

Not sure what this means.

 

Day 6 - PB died yesterday.  I was able to get him out with minimal disturbance to the rocks. (thanks Johnnybv the suggesting the grabbing device).  I did a 20% water change and added two 8oz bottles of Dr Tim's One and Only (was up until 1 am).  I was a little worried because my tank got pretty cloudy after I added it.  This morning it mostly clear up but it's still not as clear as it was.  I checked my parameters.  So  far my ammonia might have went down a bit....my nitrites are still in the purple.  I never used this stuff before so I'm not sure how long it should take to get everything back to 0.  I'm also noticing my rock and powerheads are getting this brownish soily grit.  Not sure if its from the Tim's or I'm starting to see the effect of not having the skimmer running.  Anyway, I'll be adding another dose of Kick-ich this evening.  I have noticed one of my wrasse is struggling a bit with ich (scales are a bit blotchy and he has been more picky about eating than usual).  I hope it's resilient enough to kick it.  We'll see.  Keep you posted.

[collettk]

 

  I'm also noticing my rock and powerheads are getting this brownish soily grit.  Not sure if its from the Tim's or I'm starting to see the effect of not having the skimmer running. 

 

Nvm...apparently this is a diatom bloom. I wonder how long this will last?

[YHSublime]

Sorry to hear about the fish

 

Update: I did a water test with my API Saltwater Master's Test Kit.

I see spikes to everything

Ammonia .5ppm
Nitrite .25ppm (I have never even seen this one show anything but 0 before)
Nitrate 10ppm

I added some Continuum Bacter gen-M to try to introduce additional bacteria to try to combat this.

 

How long has your tank been up and running? I just read this above.

[collettk]

Sorry to hear about the fish

 

 

How long has your tank been up and running? I just read this above.

Thanks....I think my Fairy wrasse might be next...I'm observing similar behavior from the wrasse that the fairy wrasse is now displaying...lack of appetite...swimming up and down the glass like it want out...other fish are a little aggressive to it...I'm hoping he's not to far along to not recover.

 

my tank is nine weeks old.

[lnevo]

Your tank is not even cycled at only 9 weeks. At this point I'd recommend making your peace with the fairy wrasse...it won't be long now. Your bio load is way too high anyway for a 9 week old tank if you still have fish harassing the wrasse. Setup a qt and get the healthy ones in there and do a proper copper or hypo treatment. Let the tank cycle properly. You need 8 weeks to rid the tank of ich properly anyway so better to do it now than months later....ich does not go away, it just gets manageable, but that involves having a stable tank with fish eating well which you don't have yet. Sorry to sound like I'm berating you, just being frank.

 

 

[YHSublime]

Thanks....I think my Fairy wrasse might be next...I'm observing similar behavior from the wrasse that the fairy wrasse is now displaying...lack of appetite...swimming up and down the glass like it want out...other fish are a little aggressive to it...I'm hoping he's not to far along to not recover.

 

my tank is nine weeks old.

 

This is why I asked, I read over all your posts, and it sounds like your tank may not have even finished cycling before you started adding fish. My advice, and take it with a grain of salt, is that you should qt all your fish. Find a tank big enough to do so, or separate tanks, enough space to keep them comfortable. See if you can get a sponge from some local members to help cycle your qt tank, or do you have any Dr. Tims left? QT your entire tank separate for as long as possible (8 weeks if you can) and let your DT settle, then if the fish are alright, put them back in. 

 

It is possible that they could survive through your DT cycling, however, you are poisoning them with the ammonia, and they are already stressed and have ich.

 

Just my 2 cents.  

[collettk]

This is why I asked, I read over all your posts, and it sounds like your tank may not have even finished cycling before you started adding fish. My advice, and take it with a grain of salt, is that you should qt all your fish. Find a tank big enough to do so, or separate tanks, enough space to keep them comfortable. See if you can get a sponge from some local members to help cycle your qt tank, or do you have any Dr. Tims left? QT your entire tank separate for as long as possible (8 weeks if you can) and let your DT settle, then if the fish are alright, put them back in. 

 

It is possible that they could survive through your DT cycling, however, you are poisoning them with the ammonia, and they are already stressed and have ich.

 

Just my 2 cents.  

 I used cured live rock and waited a month before I put anything in the tank...I even threw a large piece of shrimp to generate some ammonia just incase my tank need more cycling.  I was told by the LFS owner I should be good but to wait three weeks to be sure.  I used enough Dr Tims for a 240g tank...mine is only 180g.

[Coral Hind]

I have set up many tanks and added fish that day, it can be done with quality live rock. The key is to not over load the system and dose an ammonia binder. So you waited 8 weeks, how many fish did you add after that? How many fish do you have left? Have you added an ammonia/nitrite binder like Seachem's Prime or Kordon's AmQuel Plus? That would bind the ammonia and nitrite so it doesn't harm the fish until the bacteria can process it.

[zygote2k]

This is the classic example of someone getting advice from the LFS and not doing research before going into the LFS. 

OP- you should be reading as much as possible about the biological, algal, and bacterial cycles before adding anything to your tank. Since you're now beginning to see the stages of the cycle, my advice to you is to not add anything else to the tank for at least a month and let things settle down. Use this time to get your reading done and get some of the maintenance scheduled.

[collettk]

This is the classic example of someone getting advice from the LFS and not doing research before going into the LFS. 

OP- you should be reading as much as possible about the biological, algal, and bacterial cycles before adding anything to your tank. Since you're now beginning to see the stages of the cycle, my advice to you is to not add anything else to the tank for at least a month and let things settle down. Use this time to get your reading done and get some of the maintenance scheduled.

Although I appreciate your input, your presumption that I have not done any research before strolling into the LFS is misguided.  I spent two months before even buying any equipment researching extensively.  I had my tank built into a bar so I had to make sure it was something I wanted to commit to and I needed to ensure it would be built with the right dimensions and space to fit everything I needed to set this up.  I read multiple articles, posts, books, etc about the cycling process and the multiple ways people get their tank to start cycling.  A lot of what I'm being told by you and others I have read online and in books.  I have also seen A LOT of contradictory information for just about every aspect of this hobby.  Take the ich treatment as an example.  How many post in this thread alone told me that the only way to treat ich is to remove my fish from the DT.  Maybe that will me the case, but I found a lot of people saying that they swear by Kick-Ich. 

 

My point is, I started this post to get some ideas on addressing some issues I'm having and tap into some peoples experiences because mine at this point are limited.  So if you wish to share those experiences, my ear are all opened.  But please don't try to label me and keep your assumptions to yourself.

[surf&turf]

Just my opinion, but I was in your shoes 2 years ago with a powder blue, none of the other fish showed any signs of ich and the PB was covered. Went through 2 bottles of the kick ich and it didn't do anything.

 

This stuff is "snake oil" and amounts to nothing more than separating a hobbiest from his/her money's.

[YHSublime]

Collettk, how are the rest of your fish doing now that the PB is not an issue? Particularly the Fairy Wrasse?

 

Any update on the tank parameters?

 

I don't have much experience with fish, but I still stand by my thoughts in post #43.

I also think that the Dr. Tims will be a saving grace in this case, and really hope it works!

 

Let us know how it's going!

[lnevo]

Colletk it does sound like you started out right for the initial cycle..but within the time you cycled and now how many fish got added. You described quite a few. The point of adding a fish at a time is to build up the bio load in your tank to handle the number of fish you want. You can't go from 0-60 without pausing. Now you have ich and your tank is also unstable with spikes from ammonia and nitrite. People can live with ich but it takes an already stable tank with a strong biological filter and fish strong healthy and eating well, not 2 weeks from the LFS. I'm sure those who have had successful results with this product also had some of these things going for them. I'm glad you did research and have made this commitment. It shows strength of character and a lot of dedication which is needed in this hobby. There is a lot of contradictory information and especially a lot of misinformation about ich. Especially when half the diseases identified as ich are probably not. Whatever you decide to do, good luck. I still think you're best bet is to start a qt and be prepared to start over. If it does come to that, let your tank go fallow (fish only..go ahead and add corals and inverts) you will appreciate in the long term knowing you have a safe ich free tank rather than sweating each fish you add.