Water Changes, to be, or not to be

[Jason Rhoads]

Didn't even let me get to a desktop, Jason!

 

Haha, what can I say, it's a slow day here

[paul b]

Paul is saying you will notice that he still does what amounts to a 10% monthly WC and doses for Ca and Alk. An aquarium is not a self-sustaining system. You have to add the building blocks if you want the organisms to survive and thrive. Also, you will have to export the waste products at some point. There is just no way around that (unless you like using detritus as your sand bed).

 

 

That is correct.  For some reason when I look at what people say about my tank, I read all the time that I don't do water changes.  But that quote above is correct, I change about 10% a month which is a lot more than zero water changes.  I also add calcium, alk and a couple of times a year, epsom salts for magnesium.  I also stir the entire substrait at least once a year, usually twice then suck out the detritus so my tank is not neglected.  I just don't spend much money on it because my dosing is home made common chemicals like baking soda.

I could add expensive Alk suppliments but that is just baking soda in an expensive package.  Calcium is also one of the most plentiful chemicals on earth so there is no need for me to spend much on it.  Dow Flake ice melter is very cheap. prtactically free.

I am old school so I use a reverse UG filter and a diatom filter.  Now, for the last 30 years or so, people's method's changed a few times with wet drys, Jaubert, DSBs etc. and if you like those methods, use them.  There are plenty of beautiful tanks on here nicer than mine that use one of those methods.  This hobby is to complicated and there are to many variables to say which system is best for everyone.  But I will say that if you want to emulate someone's tank, search other tanks that use similar methods and check out how long they are running and if there are any problems or maintenance nightmares.  Observe how old the inhabitants are, if they are spawning or if they were ever sick.  See what it costs to run a similar system and also see if you have the time to put into that type of system.  All good, long lived systems reguire some maintenance.  If you are the type of person that just wants to throw some flakes in there once a day and never change water, this hobby may not be for you as it will eventually be an expensive failure.

[YHSublime]

Yep, at a desktop now, so I can express my thoughts quicker than with my fat reefopotamus fingers on a phone.

 

Jason pretty much took my thoughts and wrote them out. Just to be clear, I personally am not looking for a way to do less water changes, I mentioned at the beginning of this thread that I enjoy that part of my routine, and I advocate water changes. I also enjoy feeding (this one's for you Paul) and I've tried different foods, mixes, and blackworms, to make sure I'm feeding my tank the way I like to keep fed (fat and hippo like.) Now not here on WAMAS, but definitely on Reef Central, I've seen folks who say they change their water once a year, or once every six months, and it made me curious as to a) are they just lying? b) Is there some trade secret that I don't know about, or am I doing something wrong changing my water so often? D) Are they dosing out the wazoo and making things really complicated? E.) Are they just lazy and their tanks really don't look that good. Actually, come to think of it, I have not seen pictures of any of these folks tanks except Pauls (and I very much like your tank.)

 

There has been a lot of great information on this thread for me, and I think the answer is "there is no real answer." (Did I just blow your mind?)

I won't say it again, as I think Jason was in my head and put my thoughts on thread.

 

It's been echoed through this thread, and really the inter-web, this hobby is not once size fits all. There are many ways to do things, and they will differ for everybody, as we all have different tanks with different variables. From what I have read hard copy/and digitally, this hobby has made a quantum leap in the past 20 years. We still don't have all the answers, but we will always have theories, and as enthusiasts, hobbyists, and even scientists, we will always keep finding different solutions and answers.

[XxTech MoneyxX]

You could put a whale shark in there as long as his head is in the water and you feed him worms.  But it may be hard to clean that tank.

For any Noobs that may be accidently reading this thread.  It is not your fault.  None of it.  No matter what you do, starting a tank from scratch is not easy and it will have things that seem to you like problems.  They are not problems.  All that stuff that happens to new tanks goes away in time.  Yes, some of it is because you are getting more experience but the majority of it is because the bacteria in your tank are also getting more experience.  It takes time, lots of time for them to get their act together and grow in the proportions  where they will help you straighten out the "problems" and allow the tank to run smoothly.  If I started a new tank tomorrow I would have all the problems with algae, cyano, ich and everything else that happens in all new tanks.  Probably more than you.  Don't give up. it gets better.

 

Hey Paul, Thanks Alot, sure made me feel a lot better!!!

[XxTech MoneyxX]

Yep, at a desktop now, so I can express my thoughts quicker than with my fat reefopotamus fingers on a phone.

 

Jason pretty much took my thoughts and wrote them out. Just to be clear, I personally am not looking for a way to do less water changes, I mentioned at the beginning of this thread that I enjoy that part of my routine, and I advocate water changes. I also enjoy feeding (this one's for you Paul) and I've tried different foods, mixes, and blackworms, to make sure I'm feeding my tank the way I like to keep fed (fat and hippo like.) Now not here on WAMAS, but definitely on Reef Central, I've seen folks who say they change their water once a year, or once every six months, and it made me curious as to a) are they just lying? b) Is there some trade secret that I don't know about, or am I doing something wrong changing my water so often? D) Are they dosing out the wazoo and making things really complicated? E.) Are they just lazy and their tanks really don't look that good. Actually, come to think of it, I have not seen pictures of any of these folks tanks except Pauls (and I very much like your tank.)

 

There has been a lot of great information on this thread for me, and I think the answer is "there is no real answer." (Did I just blow your mind?)

I won't say it again, as I think Jason was in my head and put my thoughts on thread.

 

It's been echoed through this thread, and really the inter-web, this hobby is not once size fits all. There are many ways to do things, and they will differ for everybody, as we all have different tanks with different variables. From what I have read hard copy/and digitally, this hobby has made a quantum leap in the past 20 years. We still don't have all the answers, but we will always have theories, and as enthusiasts, hobbyists, and even scientists, we will always keep finding different solutions and answers.

 

Thanks a lot for starting this thread... it really helps the new guys ha (ME :-)) look at the BIG picture instead of focusing on the day to day.  I personally have learned so much more since I joined WAMAS!  Increadable, with reading and researching I just might change my career... No, no kidding!!!

 

...Now, if I could only "Look" into the future say....3 years from now and actually know what I SHOULD and should NOT be doing with my tank RIGHT now, oh... I would be on point (smile)

 

Thank you!  Too everyone, and if you havn't all ready please follow my thread http://wamas.org/forums/topic/56981-new-36-bowfront-set-up-any-advice/ as I know for a fact I will have plenty of questions to ask in the future LOL... yeah, yeah I know what your thinking, make sure I search to see if the question is already answered on WAMAS...didn't we talk about being lazy already....???   

[howaboutme]

This sounds like a fun thread to be a part of...

 

So..hopefully not too far of a tangent...

 

For dosing to help grow corals:

 

Is it a life versus death issue or a slow grow versus fast grow issue (or a no grow but not death)?

[Coral Hind]

I think it depends on what corals you are talking about and what exactly you are dosing. But mostly a stop or slow growth more than death unless you are talking low Alkalinity which affects pH. If your calcium is really low then it will not kill a mushroom or zoanthid but it will cause an SPS, LPS, and clams to not only stop growing but actually they can start to dissolve. Many of the things like Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, and other such things are so closely tied together that they are needed to keep pretty much all corals/fish alive. For instance, bacteria needs Magnesium so if the tank was extremely depleted of Magensium the biological filter part of the tank could crash.

[Jason Rhoads]

For instance, bacteria needs Magnesium so if the tank was extremely depleted of Magensium the biological filter part of the tank could crash.

 

You sir, are a wealth of good information! In all my research I have never seen anyone talk about this before. Usually Mg is only mentioned to say: test it about every 6 months and dose if it is low.

[howaboutme]

I think it depends on what corals you are talking about and what exactly you are dosing. But mostly a stop or slow growth more than death unless you are talking low Alkalinity which affects pH. If your calcium is really low then it will not kill a mushroom or zoanthid but it will cause an SPS, LPS, and clams to not only stop growing but actually they can start to dissolve. Many of the things like Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, and other such things are so closely tied together that they are needed to keep pretty much all corals/fish alive. For instance, bacteria needs Magnesium so if the tank was extremely depleted of Magensium the biological filter part of the tank could crash.

 

 

You sir, are a wealth of good information! In all my research I have never seen anyone talk about this before. Usually Mg is only mentioned to say: test it about every 6 months and dose if it is low.

 

+1 to Jason's comment above.

 

Thanks for the nice reply to my question. My brain hurts now but thanks anyways.

[pizzaguy]

I think it depends on what corals you are talking about and what exactly you are dosing. But mostly a stop or slow growth more than death unless you are talking low Alkalinity which affects pH. If your calcium is really low then it will not kill a mushroom or zoanthid but it will cause an SPS, LPS, and clams to not only stop growing but actually they can start to dissolve. Many of the things like Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, and other such things are so closely tied together that they are needed to keep pretty much all corals/fish alive. For instance, bacteria needs Magnesium so if the tank was extremely depleted of Magensium the biological filter part of the tank could crash.

It's funny you bring up magnesium and its effects. I have had low mag for months. So I definitely do not agree with the test every few month thing that most people say. Who knows why my mag is depleted so rapidly but I now have it setup on a doser for a little each day to keep it up. As with the biological statement you made, it makes since in my case. I've had high nitrates since day one. As of now the only way for me to keep them down is with huge weekly water changes. I'm guessing that maybe the low mag was keeping my biological filtration from getting where it needs to be to keep the nitrates down to a reasonable level.

[Integral9]

Change the water or you will suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune....

[paul b]

Hey Paul, Thanks Alot, sure made me feel a lot better!!!

I am glad you feel better. I would be afraid to start a new tank now from scratch because of all the problems I would have. I don't think I even remember how to start a tank.

[YHSublime]

It's funny you bring up magnesium and its effects. I have had low mag for months. So I definitely do not agree with the test every few month thing that most people say. Who knows why my mag is depleted so rapidly but I now have it setup on a doser for a little each day to keep it up. As with the biological statement you made, it makes since in my case. I've had high nitrates since day one. As of now the only way for me to keep them down is with huge weekly water changes. I'm guessing that maybe the low mag was keeping my biological filtration from getting where it needs to be to keep the nitrates down to a reasonable level.

 

That reasoning is sound to me.

 

 

Change the water or you will suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune....

 

I agree, to keep on topic, I was looking to better understand the logic of those people who do smaller with more time in between water changes. That has been cleared up for me.

But like I said, I've never seen a picture of anybody's tank that claims they go for a year and only do a 50% water change. Betcha' good money it doesn't look like Copps tank

 

I'm really just trying to sort out as much information as I can, and have recently borrowed and purchased a plethora of recommended books on reef keeping. I hope this has been as helpful thread to others as it has been to me.

[YHSublime]

I am glad you feel better. I would be afraid to start a new tank now from scratch because of all the problems I would have. I don't think I even remember how to start a tank.

 

You put in the saltwater and live rock, a sand bed if you please. The rest of it is trying as hard as you can not to fill it to the brim with corals and fish in half a month and keep everything alive  

[paul b]

You put in the saltwater and live rock, a sand bed if you please. The rest of it is trying as hard as you can not to fill it to the brim with corals and fish in half a month and keep everything alive

Exactly when do I put in the UG filter?

[YHSublime]

Exactly when do I put in the UG filter?

After everything dies from overstocking a 2 month old tank and not doing water changes. Then you put it in on your next build.