Mysterious deaths in my tank

[tpallas]

I've had two deaths now in the past week and I'm not really sure what's causing it.

 

It's my 11.4 g reef, I had 2 black clowns, 1 clown goby, 1 neon goby, and a cleaner shrimp. The cleaner shrimp went first. One night it was lethargic, then became less and less able to move, getting blown over the tank. It was dead my the next morning. Same thing just happened to one clown. I came home and it was swimming very close to the sand, breathing heavily. Eventually it was sitting on the sand. Died this AM. The other clown and gobies look to be fine. Acroporas are fine as well.

 

Both the shrimp and the fish were 100% fine leading up to their deaths.

 

Any idea what might be causing this?

Edited November 9, 2011 by tpallas

[surf&turf]

What are your water parameters?

 

Have you added anything new?

[Origami]

+1 on parameters. Check for ammonia. Was anybody cleaning with some household cleaner near the tank?

[RicSG]

oooh household cleaners. +1 parameters, will give an idea to narrow down the cause if it is water condition. If not maybe a monster that come out at night........ just kidding.

[tpallas]

Yeah, ammonia-nitrites-nitrates all check out. When the shrimp died the first thing I thought was some sort of metals in the water. Copper, something. But then the clown died with similar conditions I thought water quality. But everything checks out and the other fish and corals are all fine.

[tpallas]

Cleaner is a good thought but nothing there either. Might need to up my water changes tho just in case.

[BowieReefer84]

What's your PH? 4 fish seems like a lot for a small tank. With rock your water volume is probably like 8 gallons... How long have they all been in the tank together?

[tpallas]

8.1. It's a bit higher with the sump, around 14 gallons. Mass on the gobies is pretty small.

[tpallas]

About 20 days together.

[Der ABT]

do you have a grounding probe (also what kind of heater titanium or glass)

 

how do you check your salinity? refractometer i hope and if so when was it last calibrated (i have some calibration fluid if you need to use some or you could just bring me some water to check as well since your close.

 

Other thought is lack of oxygen? water movement at top of water etc may help, i know when i moved from blacksburg i had a few fish act like your clown did when ....just saw yuo have a sump so hmm..

 

where did you get your fish, did you or the store QT? sorry to have more questions then anwsers

[BowieReefer84]

Shrimp require a long acclimation, and can sometimes die a while after, and it appears to be random? Maybe the clowns were secretly fighting for dominance? Were they already paired?

[tpallas]

Don't have the probe...that's a good thought. Salinity is checked via refractometer but I havent calibrated it in some time.

 

Oxygen was one thought as well, but I have an SWC 120 on this thing which is a large skimmer for this size tank.

 

I got these fish from Marine Scene....I usually have great success with their fish.

 

do you have a grounding probe (also what kind of heater titanium or glass)

 

how do you check your salinity? refractometer i hope and if so when was it last calibrated (i have some calibration fluid if you need to use some or you could just bring me some water to check as well since your close.

 

Other thought is lack of oxygen? water movement at top of water etc may help, i know when i moved from blacksburg i had a few fish act like your clown did when ....just saw yuo have a sump so hmm..

 

where did you get your fish, did you or the store QT? sorry to have more questions then anwsers

[tpallas]

Shrimp require a long acclimation, and can sometimes die a while after, and it appears to be random? Maybe the clowns were secretly fighting for dominance? Were they already paired?

 

That could be the case, I acclimatized over 2 hours and hadnt had this problem with past shrimp. Did not observe the clowns fighting but they were not paired.

 

What strikes me as odd is that I would expect thing to happen to the inhabitants all at once....or at least see similar symptoms.

[tpallas]

It's just odd that the acros all give me the thumbs up and the fish go. I'll do another water change tonight and watch the params.

[Der ABT]

a quick "not so accurate" check is to use some RODI on your refractometer (should read 0), i have some 35ppm soln id be happy to share.

 

looks like its pointing to fighting

im a big fan of a grounding probe though cheap and effective

[BowieReefer84]

a quick "not so accurate" check is to use some RODI on your refractometer (should read 0), i have some 35ppm soln id be happy to share.

 

looks like its pointing to fighting

im a big fan of a grounding probe though cheap and effective

 

 

Where you get your calibration fluid? I always use distilled and set it to zero...

[Der ABT]

F&F usually has it, also seen it at BRK, petland, etc.

I first got it online and i think this one came from F&F.

 

Calibration fluid

 

or i cheat ad my wife works in a lab and gets me alot of stuff like that (ph, etc standards)

[Mando77]

That tank is way to small for that bioload. Thats the main issue. No clown fish stands a chance in a system that small. I tried one in a 14 gallon biocube and relized it just wasn't going to work. The only thing you should have in a system thats around ten gallons are 1-2 small gobies or one type of nano fish. Putting 2 clowns in a 11 gallon tank is like asking a couple to live in a closet. I personally think a clown should only go in a tank of 25 gallons or greater. If the clown is in a small tank it should have excellent filtration and water movement.

[FearTheTerps]

With the proper filtration(and acclimation) I dont think you would have a problem keeping 2 clowns in that tank. Ive seen lots on instances were breeding pairs of clowns were kept in 10 gallon tanks.

[tpallas]

With the proper filtration(and acclimation) I dont think you would have a problem keeping 2 clowns in that tank. Ive seen lots on instances were breeding pairs of clowns were kept in 10 gallon tanks.

 

I concur. If the argument is swimming space, I would agree if these were 4-5" clowns, but these are juveniles. For water quality, this thing has a beast of a skimmer on it, so it's not a bioload issue. Everything else in the tank is doing great.

[BowieReefer84]

I still think the shrimp just didn't acclimate well, and the clown was probably outcompeted for food by the other. I would leave it with what you have for a month or so, and see how it fares.

[tpallas]

Yeah, that's my plan. I'm just focusing on getting the rest of my corals placed for this thing to grow out!

[tpallas]

Hey saw your tank in the NTOTM thread on RC, I gave you a vote!

[Mando77]

I still think this is a bioload/space issue. Make sure you have good flow and that rocks aren't blocking current. Small tanks are hard because water conditions can change very easily. I once took a rock out of the back and wow you could see lots of water getting moved around. Huge difference. I agree that you could have 2 clowns in a tank, but that tank would have to be bare with lots of swimming space. Im assuming tpallas tank has lots of liverock, corals and other critters. The biggest problem I see in all types of aquariums is people getting fish that do not belong in the tank. I have a snowflake and a black clown in a 29 and I think that is kinda small. Every tank is different be patient and learn from your mistakes.

[tpallas]

Check out my tank thread in the dedicated tank forum, you can see how it's setup....it's mainly to house high-end SPS, so the clowns should be ok.

 

BUT, I did remember something just now, I did absentmindedly use a wooden spoon from the kitchen to mix saltwater when my mixing powerhead broke...could this have done it? Doing 50% WC now as other black clown is starting to look bad.