Naptown 125-First Timer!

[Annap729]

Alright, so after months of deliberation and acquisition of an economical 125g sw setup, I've done SOME homework and decided the direction I'm headed-I'd like to do a full reef tank with lots of LPS and some fish. I will say that I'm working on each step being budget conscious but wanting to slowly build a tank that has the appropriate backbone and infrastructure to really become a spectacular tank. I've listed my points in bold that i'm looking for answers/feedback to.

Filtration

A skimmer came with the tank, but it's old technology and i'm in no rush to try to drop it into one of my sumps. At the moment, I've decided to run a skimmerless system and go with a simple yet apparently effective combination of black bioballs, filter floss, reactor with NP Biopellets, and carbon. I hear so much conflicting information that it's really hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. First issue: Forget the bioballs and just do carbon & floss in the wet/dry, and biopellets in a reactor. That was my plan, until I heard two things: 1) keep the bioballs 2)carbon is better if it's in a reactor.

Is it ok to skip the bioballs if I have the biopellets?

Should i be putting my carbon in a reactor?

I have included a photo of the sump design im building (doesnt show where i'm putting reactor) which is a simple yet effective system-it appears it might even be a lot more than I really need as it's a double sump, but extra filtration seems like a good thing to do if I want a high bioload. Feedback here is welcomed.

 

Lighting

I currently have 6x96w powercompacts. I will be upgrading to one of the 150w LED units on ebay sold by the guy in Norfolk VA that apparently builds some great equipment (to be discussed later bc i'm 30 days i'm going to buy that LED).

 

Water Quality

My RO/DI unit is on it's way via ebay. My plan is to install the unit in the laundry room by tapping into the washer "box" at the cold water line. i cant use a self-tapping valve as the copper isnt exposed. Home depot doesnt have a T like that (i think 3/4x3/4 with a 1/8 "T".

What's the best way to tap into this?

 

 

The next thing I'm throwing out there for feedback on is the whole live rock/sand issue.

 

My intentions are to fly in some really nice Fl aquacultured live rock once i have my brute cans mixing up some instant ocean with good ro/di water and my filtration system plumbed and ready to go. I'm going to have the live rock guys pull it from their warehouse tanks and race it to bwi immediately and I'll have it back in my tank within a max of 5 hours out of the water. I'm hoping to not lose ANYTHING on the rock. There will be no tarmac layovers with this rock, fyi. straight plane to plane like flying a little kid-someone there to drop him onto the plane and someone there to pick him up; also it's an evening flight so temps will be lower. Initially i'm only going to be able to afford about 100 lbs of rock.

 

Additionally, I'm going to get about 100lbs of live sand to start. Again, same people shipping the rock will ship it in a separate box but with the same scenario mentioned above to minimize death.

 

Thoughts/experiences on Florida live rock? My theory is that if I can get truly fresh live rock AND live sand that's in the best possible shape, my tank wont cycle heavily like a rollercoaster. I want to start my tank with as much life as possible. Also, I feel like it's so much better! Won't I need to keep the tank temp near the same as the temp in nature wherever the rock came from or else all the critters will die?

 

 

Additional Equipment Considerations

I'm considering a UV sterilizer, but not exactly sure if I need it.

How many watts should i get, and how big of a tube should i put it in?

 

Dosing Pumps

 

This is on my horizon as apparently there is much more consistent water quality by using a doser. I was thinking a 3-part one that I can dose 3 at a time, but again i'm welcome to any feedback on this-I will be adding this before I get any lps's. Do they make any dosing pumps that test the water for calcium or whatever and then automatically add it? we can deal with this one later if need be :D.

 

Controllers

i'm intrigued by the automation of the new age aquarium and was looking for one of these. not sure how crazy I should get, so again this might be something to discuss later.

[roni]

Alright, so after months of deliberation and acquisition of an economical 125g sw setup, I've done SOME homework and decided the direction I'm headed-I'd like to do a full reef tank with lots of LPS and some fish. I will say that I'm working on each step being budget conscious but wanting to slowly build a tank that has the appropriate backbone and infrastructure to really become a spectacular tank. I've listed my points in bold that i'm looking for answers/feedback to.

 

Welcome!

Filtration

A skimmer came with the tank, but it's old technology and i'm in no rush to try to drop it into one of my sumps. At the moment, I've decided to run a skimmerless system and go with a simple yet apparently effective combination of black bioballs, filter floss, reactor with NP Biopellets, and carbon. I hear so much conflicting information that it's really hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. First issue: Forget the bioballs and just do carbon & floss in the wet/dry, and biopellets in a reactor. That was my plan, until I heard two things: 1) keep the bioballs 2)carbon is better if it's in a reactor.

Is it ok to skip the bioballs if I have the biopellets?

Should i be putting my carbon in a reactor?

 

Biopellets really should be run with a larger skimmer, not without. It's also not generally the only source of filtration.

 

Skimmerless systems generally depend on mature live rock and sand and probably are not a good choice for someone starting out in the hobby.

 

My advice, research skimmers and get an appropriate sized skimmer. Skip the bioballs and filter floss. If you're keeping primarily LPS, skip the biopellets, at least initially. Use GFO for phosphate.

 

 

Lighting

I currently have 6x96w powercompacts. I will be upgrading to one of the 150w LED units on ebay sold by the guy in Norfolk VA that apparently builds some great equipment (to be discussed later bc i'm 30 days i'm going to buy that LED).

 

Not very knowledgeable about LEDS but there is a group buy going on and one of the members has offered to build for a nominal fee (unless you happen to be handy yourself). At the least, post a pic and description of your LED light on here. Not all LEDs are the same as you know.

 

 

Water Quality

My RO/DI unit is on it's way via ebay. My plan is to install the unit in the laundry room by tapping into the washer "box" at the cold water line. i cant use a self-tapping valve as the copper isnt exposed. Home depot doesnt have a T like that (i think 3/4x3/4 with a 1/8 "T".

What's the best way to tap into this?

 

I used a Y fitting you can find in the garden section.

 

 

The next thing I'm throwing out there for feedback on is the whole live rock/sand issue.

 

My intentions are to fly in some really nice Fl aquacultured live rock once i have my brute cans mixing up some instant ocean with good ro/di water and my filtration system plumbed and ready to go. I'm going to have the live rock guys pull it from their warehouse tanks and race it to bwi immediately and I'll have it back in my tank within a max of 5 hours out of the water. I'm hoping to not lose ANYTHING on the rock. There will be no tarmac layovers with this rock, fyi. straight plane to plane like flying a little kid-someone there to drop him onto the plane and someone there to pick him up; also it's an evening flight so temps will be lower. Initially i'm only going to be able to afford about 100 lbs of rock.

 

Additionally, I'm going to get about 100lbs of live sand to start. Again, same people shipping the rock will ship it in a separate box but with the same scenario mentioned above to minimize death.

 

Thoughts/experiences on Florida live rock? My theory is that if I can get truly fresh live rock AND live sand that's in the best possible shape, my tank wont cycle heavily like a rollercoaster. I want to start my tank with as much life as possible. Also, I feel like it's so much better! Won't I need to keep the tank temp near the same as the temp in nature wherever the rock came from or else all the critters will die?

 

Didn't realize Florida rock was still available. If you can minimize time out of water, that's always a good thing. You will still have a cycle though so make sure to wait before stocking your tank.

[/b]Dosing Pumps

 

This is on my horizon as apparently there is much more consistent water quality by using a doser. I was thinking a 3-part one that I can dose 3 at a time, but again i'm welcome to any feedback on this-I will be adding this before I get any lps's. Do they make any dosing pumps that test the water for calcium or whatever and then automatically add it? we can deal with this one later if need be :D.

 

No, unfortunately the dosers don't test the water prior to adding calcium. Would be nice if they did. If you're just going primarily LPS, dripping kalk (either directly or via a kalkreactor), should be enough to keep up with your calcium demand.

 

Sounds like you've gotten off to a good start but I'd do a little more reading about skimmerless systems before deciding to do that. Skimmers, while not necessary, do provide a nice safety net and also help oxygenate the water, in addition to removing protein before if breaks down in your tank.

 

In terms of rock, there are several people breaking down tanks. If you can get mature, "clean" rock from someone who's had a tank set up for a while, it's going to be even better then any rock you fly in in terms of cycling.

Edited June 30, 2011 by roni

[Chad]

Another welcome to you! I am glad to see that you have been putting in some research time!

 

As I am sure that you are finding there are many, many ways to successfully run a tank, some of which are conflicting. IMO, it is usually best to start out by choosing someone as a mentor who has a few successful years in the hobby with a tank that looks how you want yours to look... then follow their advice explicitly for at least a year (enough time to separate the methods out there that work for others vs. work for you).

 

I agree with most of what roni posted.

 

What is your skimmer? In general, protein skimmers, or foam fractionination, are all based on the theory of putting small bubbles in contact with soluble particles in the water which separates the particles from the water. Certainly not new technology. I would post more about your skimmer, you may be better off by using it than not. I am a huge proponent of the "natural method" and skimmerless systems in general; however, it is certainly not a method for everyone. I have run two separate skimmerless systems in my time, both based on nutrient removal via algae growth, and on both of them I had a protein skimmer plumbed in and ready-to-go since a skimmer is a much faster way to accomplish the same thing.

 

Also, regarding the tee in your laundry room... please get a single piece, brass tee that says "for indoor use" or at the very least doesn't say "for outdoor use only" on it. I had a "garden" style tee break in the middle of the night and leave two inches of water on the bottom floor of my house... bad day.

 

There isn't any "wild" Florida rock importing any more... all of it is aqua cultured: dry rock put in sections of the ocean and harvested some period of time later. It is a good example of a sustainable source in the hobby

 

Good luck, keep reading, and again, welcome. I am sure you will find a lot of helpful folks here

 

...And just out of curiosity, does 729 = Georgia?

[Annap729]

Thanks guys! I'll post a photo of my skimmer on here tonight-it's old though, and I was considering the bubble magus nac-7 because it's economical, although i'm hearing more about cone skimmers and not sure what's best. ideally I'd like to be around $150-200, and I'm thinking maybe I can pick up one used for that or a new one. Any tips on what to avoid will be good. I'm going to stick to something fairly new in the last 1-2 years. That being said, thinking ahead-if i'm going to get a skimmer, I want a darn good one.

 

The live rock is definitely aquacultured; I found it as usual on ebay with stellar feedback of some awesome growth and color etc. It works out to be an average of around $3 per pound, I think $4 delivered to BWI. Most everyone's rock that I see being sold just doesnt excite me with color and stuff.

 

I'm going to be very particular with my liverock and sand choice only because I used to ship live seafood (crabs) into Baltimore and have some pretty extensive experience flying perishables on airline cargo. This particular person is near the airport and it'll be about an hour out of the water before it's dropped, an hour for loading, 2.5 hours in the air, and then 1 hour to me before it's in my tank. temperature will remain fairly constant as well. I will heed the advice and not load the tank up with other life until I see the spikes. That being said, i'll keep my eyes open for anyone with really great rock breaking down their tank. I do want to make a great aquascape with some ledges and stuff, so i'm exploring the whole acrylic rod and drilled hole thing. I havent totally decided how I want it to look but I dont want the fish to be able to completely hide.

 

I'm really hoping to go as low maintenance as possible and have been fascinated with the way people are doing things like using self-cleaning skimmers and other stuff. I dont want to be cleaning a skimmer cup daily. I've also heard the bigger your skimmer the better, which makes sense. Because I've already gotten the double sump with the mechanical floss and bioball filtration with carbon, can I just drop a skimmer into one of those tubs in the photo and a reactor with biopellets on the other? I guess having a skimmer is just another great way to oxygenate and clean your water and will only help the ecosystem along like you guys said.

So what are advantages of GFO vs biopellets? i thought biopellets do both N&P, versus just P for GFO?

 

Thanks a TON for the T suggestion. I'll get the brass one as an additional safeguard. Do RO/DI units come with a fitting to take the 3/4 hose down to the 1/8 or whatever it is icemaker-style line?

 

I'm totally open to the mentor idea! I wish there was a tank gallery of each user so I can find the ones I like the most . The brighter and vibrant the better with some spaces between the rock rather than the whole reef wall style.

[Chad]

If you are going to buy one, take a look at the AVAST you-built CS-1 skimmer, for ~$355, you can get a really excellent cone skimmer with the pump and a self cleaning head. It takes a little time to put together, but is not terribly difficult. Plus the guys who own avast are local to the club and can offer great assistance.

 

GFO (grannular ferric oxide aka rust particles) is a chemical means of removing phosphate from the water, in some cases, it is an irritant to certain fish (seahorses and other sygnathids are susceptible), also tends to raise iron levels a bit (depending on where you look and what you are trying to do, this may be a good thing or a bad thing).

 

Biobellets are basically just a surface and a food source for bacteria, which uptake nitrate and phosphate. The bacteria then need to be removed from the system (usually via a strong protein skimmer) to remove the nitrate and phosphate. The use of biopellets removes many of the drawbacks of bacteria based methods (it is hard to overdose with this method as opposed to say vodka or something similar). However, ensuring calcium/mag/alk levels are constant is especially important with this method.

 

IMHO, reliance upon these methods is not the way to go. It is better to have basic husbandry and setup down based on live rock, sand, some sort of algae growth and water changes. Then adding one of these methods is more for insurance or for more of a ULNS technique (not always the best, IMO, but they have their place) than the primary means.

 

These are just two nutrient removal methods, there are more. I prefer to have a large (in my case always ~50% of DT volume) refugium with heavy macro algae growth that I harvest from time to time to remove the nutrients from the system.

 

Also, something to keep in mind with aquascaping... I like the very open setups too, but if the fish don't have hiding places, there is a potential that aggression issues become more apparant. Not necessarily a show stopper, but something to think about.

[Annap729]

Wow. So informative Chad, thanks. I'm liking the Skimmer, but $400 is double what I want to spend. Plus, there's no shortage of work to do in my setup-so id rather not assemble a skimmer.

Suggestions on a handful of used ones I can look for? Not sure why cone skimming is better but i can save that for a research mission later . If u say cone skimmer then it's cone skimmer.

 

I like the idea of biopellets, I don't know if I'll have room to grow a big macroalgae deal but maybe I can come up with something down below to further add to the ecosystem. Adding a 50-60 gallon tank isn't in the cards for me. I could maybe try something in the sump area?

 

These are my two pumps...I have a bigger one but I need to replace a bearing. I assume these will still be ok? Is it alright to go with 1" plumbing coming out of the overflows?

 

 

If there is anyone in the immediate Annapolis area that I could show my setup to that is pretty knowledgeable I'd be happy to..

I found an economical reactor and I'm planning on putting that down below. I'll also get a three part dosing pump.

[Annap729]

 

This is the skimmer I got as part of the package. It's a rio pump. Thoughts?

[Chad]

That looks a bit like a turboflotor 1000 by aqua medic. Actually a decent skimmer, when I did maintenance for a living that was my choice skimmer for customers. Although, the pump is a mod (probably a good one), they came with (somewhat unreliable or at least they used to be) ocean runner pumps. http://www.marinedepot.com/protein_skimmers_aqua_medic_turboflotor_t1000-ap.html

 

I would probably use that skimmer for the time being since you have it, and then down the road sometime replace it.

 

Cone skimmers are "better" because they channel bubbles into one direction (up) better within the skimmer.

 

Adding a refugium to the sump is something that many people do. A small 65w CFO light you can buy at lowes or HD is all you really need to light it.

[Annap729]

What's a ulns technique

[Origami]

Just started reading this thread. Welcome to WAMAS!

 

ULNS = ultra low nutrient system

 

I'm looking forward to your updates.

[Annap729]

Alright so I've skipped the entire wet/dry system and I'm going to a sump that I picked up for a 200g system. I'm using the two external pumps that came with it. He threw in a third pump which needs a bearing- that one is a monster. Not sure what I should do here- looking for suggestions. I redid the skimmer wall on the left so hopefully it is the right height...see my setup as it supposedly was setup before. This is where my freshwater experience does nothing for me and I'm going to ask for help on what to put where. The big thing in the back I have no use for unless someone wants to come up with something that would help my system, I'm game but it looks like an extra sump, no? It was part of the package. This is a photo of the big pump that needs a bearing-again I'm open to ideas if it's better in my tank than the two I was planning on using. it looks like a hubbell 1/8hp pump. Here's my tank before I do anything...I'm getting pretty excited! Ok let me know what I should use out of all the equipment I have. I'm sort of in the dark.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Annap729

[jason the filter freak]

The turbo flotor skimmer is a half decent skimmer pretty easy to tune and half reliable even with the rio pump in place, though I replaced mine eventually with a aqua-medic 2500 but at any rate. Start with the equipment you have the money for, read lots, and try not to get lost. For the love of god avoid upgrade addiction, don't upgrade or replace until you need to, I mean don't wait until its too late and fish are dying, but you don't need a Bubble King Skimmer until you have

[Chad]

What did you plan to do for in-tank flow? With all of those larger external pumps, that system must have been a heck of an power sucker. Is the tank drilled for a closed loop?

[Annap729]

Good question. Yah I'd rather avoid the giant power bills or lots of noise at least if possible-what's a more modern quiet solution these days? The tank is drilled, there is one return on each side;those loc-whatever black adjustable thingys come out of each side and I'll probably modify them with a y on each end. Then im assuming I'll need 2-3 powerheads, right? I'm open to any and all suggestions.

[Annap729]

<br />The turbo flotor skimmer is a half decent skimmer pretty easy to tune and half reliable even with the rio pump in place, though I replaced mine eventually with a aqua-medic 2500 but at any rate. Start with the equipment you have the money for, read lots, and try not to get lost. For the love of god avoid upgrade addiction, don't upgrade or replace until you need to, I mean don't wait until its too late and fish are dying, but you don't need a Bubble King Skimmer until you have<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

Alright I'll work with the skimmer I have. What should I put next to the skimmer in the sump? Also, is the container to the right supposed to be my fuge?

[Annap729]

Am I correct in assuming I have no use for the big pump?

[Annap729]

Bump...

[Chad]

Good question. Yah I'd rather avoid the giant power bills or lots of noise at least if possible-what's a more modern quiet solution these days? The tank is drilled, there is one return on each side;those loc-whatever black adjustable thingys come out of each side and I'll probably modify them with a y on each end. Then im assuming I'll need 2-3 powerheads, right? I'm open to any and all suggestions.

 

That sounds like your tank is drilled for overflows (or is "reef-ready"), holes for a closed loop are generally in the middle-lower section of the back or bottom.

 

The quick rundown on a closed loop is a relatively large pump takes a suction from the tank and returns it to the tank. Advantages are a clean look to the tank, disadvantages are (usually) increased power consumption per flow achieved and less vesatility.

 

Other methods are power heads (popular choices are Vortech, Tunze, and Korallia). Advantages are less power consumption and more versatility, a disadvantage is they are usually bulky (although getting less-so).

 

Choose what works best for you. Both methods have staunch supporters.

 

<br /><br /><br />

 

Alright I'll work with the skimmer I have. What should I put next to the skimmer in the sump? Also, is the container to the right supposed to be my fuge?

 

The container to the right looks like it could be a fuge, if you don't have other intentions for it, that would work quite well.

 

You could put media reactors there to hold your choice of carbon, GFO, and/or biopellets.

 

Am I correct in assuming I have no use for the big pump?

 

Not necessarily, I would make a decision regarding the closed loop first. It could have a use there if a clean look is important to you.

[six-line]

Where are you at in Annapolis? Nice start on your system looking forward to seeing it grow.

[jason the filter freak]

I could come give you a hand one day if you're too far away. I work in GB, it looks like you've got a good amount of equipment there. I might be missing something is the main tank reef ready? With overflows and such?

[Annap729]

I could come give you a hand one day if you're too far away. I work in GB, it looks like you've got a good amount of equipment there. I might be missing something is the main tank reef ready? With overflows and such?

 

that would be awesome. i'm in Kingsport in Annapolis. shoot me a PM with your contact info--i could really use the guidance. yes it's reef ready, with two pvc tubes coming out of each corner of the tank.

[six-line]

Your down off of Forest drive, I'm over in Cape Saint Claire on Greenholly Dr. Let me know if you need a hand setting up.