zygote2k July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 My all natural filtration isn't working as planned. I do have good SPS growth, but I can't help but wonder if I could have better growth. My custom sump wasn't able to support the DSB as planned so I used rubble instead. There's plenty of sponges and pods in this area, but I really can't get any macro to grow anymore. I put 3# of Dragons Breath in and it rotted away in a month. The chaeto hasn't died, but it certainly isn't growing. I am using GFO, carbon, and polycaprolactone pellets but my nitrates won't go below 20ppm. I don't have any nuisance algae or cyano problems either. I've recently acquired a custom cone skimmer and have been thinking that I should go this route, but I've barked so much about skimmerless that I'm worried that I'll sound like a hypocrite. What to do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epleeds July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 go with a T5 set up, skimmer and a deep sand bed in your tank....that will hit all the points... whats the worse that can happen, you realize all your talk about not needing a skimmer was not 100% correct. You will take some ribbing for sure...but hey, you do already.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 the avast skimmer, do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoozilla July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 How high are your Phosphates? I've read somewhere that tanks can sometimes become Phosphate limited especially with aggressive use of GFO, etc. Bacteria needs some PO4 to carry out the Nitrogen cycle and reduce nitrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 You won't sound like a hypocrite - it's the systems that create the hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 How high are your Phosphates? I've read somewhere that tanks can sometimes become Phosphate limited especially with aggressive use of GFO, etc. Bacteria needs some PO4 to carry out the Nitrogen cycle and reduce nitrates. This is exactly what I was thinking as I was reading down the tread. The limited growth of chaeto is also from lack of PO4. By adding the GFO the whole "natural" method was thrown out the window. You could add the skimmer and also lower the amount of GFO you use. I actually stopped running GFO all together. Make sure you have good flow over the chaeto. It seems to grow better with high flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 How high are your Phosphates? I've read somewhere that tanks can sometimes become Phosphate limited especially with aggressive use of GFO, etc. Bacteria needs some PO4 to carry out the Nitrogen cycle and reduce nitrates. +1 Try pulling your GFO for a few days and monitor the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 I agree with previous post. Your GFO is taking up all the phosphates and starving your cheato. Also, it is very important to have a strong plant light on your macro-algae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 This is exactly what I was thinking as I was reading down the tread. The limited growth of chaeto is also from lack of PO4. By adding the GFO the whole "natural" method was thrown out the window. You could add the skimmer and also lower the amount of GFO you use. I actually stopped running GFO all together. Make sure you have good flow over the chaeto. It seems to grow better with high flow. +1 In addition, Rob, it seems that your current setup is somewhat contrary to the way successful skimmerless systems are generally setup. IME, all of the skimmerless systems that I have seen run successfully have been based on the regular harvesting of plant growth (e.g., macro, seagrass, turf scrubbers, etc.). If I remember the conversations we have had about your tank, you went with your current sump setup to save space, unfortunately, skimmerless systems and space conservation are somewhat mutually exclusive. You may be best served by putting the skimmer on. Just out of curiosity, why did you add GFO in the first place? The only systems that I have ever seen really need it do not have an area dedicated to plant growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extreme_tooth_decay July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 (edited) I could never get chaeto to grow. Caulerpa grew like crazy, after which I could never measure my nitrates. And I fed the caulepa by the handfull from my fuge to my tangs. I had a skimmer, but it rarely produced anything. It was a huge fuge. Edited July 28, 2010 by extreme_tooth_decay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k July 28, 2010 Author Share July 28, 2010 I'll pull the GFO- don't know why I didn't think about that. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 dumb question, what is gfo? i mean is sounds like a phosphate remover but what does it stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1017 July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 Granular Ferric Oxide chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 does that more or less translate to rusted iron? sorry rob not trying to jack your thread. you should run the cone and if insump space it at a premium run as an external and have the first avast resirc skimmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 28, 2010 Share July 28, 2010 There is no ferrous iron in GFO. Check out Randy's article for information on GFO. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad August 11, 2010 Share August 11, 2010 Rob, did you decide to hook up a skimmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 11, 2010 Author Share August 11, 2010 not yet- nixed the GFO and things are improving. N03 went from 36ppm to 14ppm in 2 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad August 11, 2010 Share August 11, 2010 That's good to hear, chaeto growth improving as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 11, 2010 Share August 11, 2010 It sounds like the GFO was getting highly oxygenated water and acting like a fluidized sand filter that caused it to out compete the natural filtration of the sand and algae. Keep us posted on if the NO3 drops back down to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 11, 2010 Author Share August 11, 2010 (edited) It sounds like the GFO was getting highly oxygenated water and acting like a fluidized sand filter that caused it to out compete the natural filtration of the sand and algae. Keep us posted on if the NO3 drops back down to zero. I think it was simply adsorbing the P04 and starving the chaeto. I also did a thorough sump cleaning and removed all of the small pieces of rubble. Now there's only a few sponge covered rocks and some chaeto for filtration. No DSB. Edited August 11, 2010 by zygote2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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