Filter Freaks New Tank, 54 Corner X Type

[Chad]

How did the front turn out with all the clamps and weights? What is the thickness of the front ply?

 

I have done some wood bending before and found that a jig, and several pieces of thin completely soaked material works really well (like several pieces of 1/16" ply soaked and completely coated with wood glue clamped in a jig and allowed to dry). There are lots of ways to bend wood successfully, but basically it is just pressure, moisture, and time. Unfortunately, unless you do something to relieve the stress in the wood, it will want to straighten back out and may eventually lead to additional cracks (the spot where you cut out for your sump to fit is a stress concentrator and is the most likely spot for failure to occur).

 

Alternatively, is there any way you could span a couple of wire cables directly across the arc at the top of the skin and just above where the sump would fit to relieve some of the bending stress on the ribs? like this:

 

 

I know with the current front setup this would be difficult to make permanent, but perhaps you could mist the ply with water and just use it temporarily until the ply retains some of the shape on its own.

[Chad]

By the way, I really like the waterproof basin on the sump.

[jason the filter freak]

 

 

 

I know with the current front setup this would be difficult to make permanent, but perhaps you could mist the ply with water and just use it temporarily until the ply retains some of the shape on its own.

 

the cross cables are not an option. but what about the heating soaking right now?

 

I don't know the actual measurement of the ply off the top of my head but its along the lines of slightly less than 1/4" thick

 

I could possibly pour boiling water across the front of it? would that help? I've never bent wood before so this is my first try. I did retain enough material where I could redo the door and canopy if ever they should warp out of shape.

[Coral Hind]

Nice job on the sump!

[Chad]

1/4" is pretty thick for bending, so it will take a while, but it can be done. Bending isnt terribly tricky, just time consuming.

 

I would think that the boiling water may work, but it really needs to soak for a bit and let some of the wood saturate. Do you have some band clamps and enough material to make a jig out of 2x4s? If I were doing it, I would build a quick jig to form the inside and outside braces (ribs with the short side of the 2x4 touching the workpiece and probably at a smaller radius than what you actually want), soak the wood for an hour or two in as warm of water as I could figure out (maybe a tub rigged out of a sheet of ply, some 2x4s and a some painters plastic to hold the water) and then clamp the workpiece between the two jig parts with band clamps and let it set for a couple of days to dry out.

[jason the filter freak]

1/4" is pretty thick for bending, so it will take a while, but it can be done. Bending isnt terribly tricky, just time consuming.

 

I would think that the boiling water may work, but it really needs to soak for a bit and let some of the wood saturate. Do you have some band clamps and enough material to make a jig out of 2x4s? If I were doing it, I would build a quick jig to form the inside and outside braces (ribs with the short side of the 2x4 touching the workpiece and probably at a smaller radius than what you actually want), soak the wood for an hour or two in as warm of water as I could figure out (maybe a tub rigged out of a sheet of ply, some 2x4s and a some painters plastic to hold the water) and then clamp the workpiece between the two jig parts with band clamps and let it set for a couple of days to dry out.

 

I can't even begin to imagine this set up? Best I could do at this point would be to temporarily string those tension cables like you suggested, run boiling/steaming hot water over the whole mess for 25 mins or so, then let it dry out over a few days. Is that completely pointless or at least worth taking a shot at?

[jason the filter freak]

Here is how everything is going to fit together, at least at this point. The open space in the front is for a skimmer.

[Chad]

Yea, that is totally not enough room for any of the stringers in the final setup. You have that stuff wedged in there!

 

What is the current condition of the front skin? Are the ribs glued in place? I think with the ribs in place, it will be difficult to get uniform saturation by pouring boiling water, it may be better to mist it heavily with a spray bottle a bunch of times until the wood swells a little bit from the water. letting it dry with tension cables across it would be better than nothing I think.

 

If the ribs arent glued in place, or would be easy to undo, I would prebend the skin, and this is what I was thinking as far as a jig goes:

 

Basically, there would be two assemblies, the inner and the outer with the workpiece squeezed in between and the whole thing wrappped in a couple of band clamps. I would let it sit and dry out for a couple of days to dry out then unclamp it... Should work like a charm.

[Chad]

^haha, I guess you would only need a 1/4 form, not a full 1/2...

 

Also, you wouldnt need nearly as many ribs as I showed, just enough to solidly hold it in place with the clamps.

[jason the filter freak]

OK I really really appreciate the help. At this point the ribs aren't glued in place but they're in such a manner that they can't be removed. What I was thinking about was adding the wire stringers put the whole mess in the shower crank my house water heater up and shower that bad boy? Hows that sound?

 

I have another sheet of wood where if this one fails or un bows/breaks I can replace it in the future but for now I just want to get the stand done. Maybe I could make another door once I finish the tank I don't know. I kind of get the ply wood jig with 2 x 4's but how do i get the two bys to hold that arc shape? just nail them down(screw) them to a flat surface?

 

I have some zoo/paly frags if you want them for helping me out here with the drawing and explanations.

[Chad]

haha, no problem, talk is cheap, and I dont have anything better to do at the moment anyway I appreciate it, but you dont need to give me any frags, Im glad to help. Besides, you will need them for your new tank anyway!

 

I think the shower and wires will probably work out ok, the trick will be to tighten the stringers enough to relieve some stress, but not so much that the piece ends up with a smaller radius than the stand (though I dont think you will have to worry about that too much), getting some of the stress out will help with long-term issues.

 

If you decide to make another door, I would make it out of several pieces of thinner ply (1/16 or 1/18) that are glued together. If you want, I can explain that process a little better whenever you are interested. And, yep, just screw the 2x4s to a flat surface (plywood or a spare rib or whatever), just make sure they extend past the edge of whatever you screw them to and they can move with respect to each other.

[jason the filter freak]

Could I pay you to do this? I have pretty much all the wood, clamps, tools necessary just not a clue. Here is how it turned out. I'm going to try the shower trick and hope it fixes or at least aids the issue, here is how it turned out in case you need an I told you so. I might, miiight be able to put a heavier rib up top and hope that helps but I'm not sure.

 

 

The right side is pretty ok

 

But the left side not so much

 

[sdah0414]

Since you don't have a full wood steamer, the best thing you can do is overbend your piece by about 1 1/2 to 2 inches. This way, when the would tries to go back straight, it will work itself to where you want.

[Chad]

I should be able to come up this weekend and help (I guess I would accept frags for that ) if you want, my Saturday morning is free at the moment with the fiance at work, all of my tools are in storage in WV, but you probably have anything we may need (do you have band clamps? I think I may have some in my house if not).

 

I am not sure how much a heavier rib would help unless it was a different material (know of a fab shop that could put a roll in a piece of tubular steel?), with the wood, there is just a lot of flex. Try the shower trick, and saturate the wood as much as you can (I would probably leave it in there for an hour or so), and tighten it like Steve said 1-2" past the point where you want it to be.

[jason the filter freak]

i tried looking up band clamps on google images some how i dont think theyre quite what i need. i've got cash, frags, and can get beer. i can also cut new ribs and a door tomorrow after noon perhaps. if i cut new ribs the arc thats left behild i think would work for the bottom of the jig. i think thicker ribs may be in order as last time both the top and bottom rib broke and i reglued them probably creating a weak point for down the road. if im going to redo it i may as well buy a new piece of 1x10 and redo the work right/better

[Chad]

Usually band clamps are just loops of nylon webbing with a ratcheting mechanism, like this http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100129976&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100129976&ci_src=14110944&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D25X-_-100129976&locStoreNum=4615&marketID=177

I will check, but I think I have a few in my house.

 

PM me your address and phone #, we can set something up for Saturday.

 

BTW, as long as we are bending things, we can bend the ribs too if you want... once you have the jig and clamps, its not that bad to bend larger things, it just takes a little time and slow, constant, pressure. Bent ribs would be structurally stronger than cuts across the grain. That way, you can use the 1x10 (or thicker scrap ply if you have it) to make the jig (make a single cut through the center of the board and use both sides of the "scrap" piece) and buy a few 1x2s or 1x4s to make the ribs.

[ctenophore]

Try steaming the wood in the shower, add the wires to pull it to the correct bend (maybe a little over as mentioned above), then leave it in the sun with the inside up to the light. The sun will dry out that side, causing it to shrink faster than the other side. I ruined several pieces of good flat plywood this way, so it should help in your situation.

[Coral Hind]

 

But the left side not so much

 

You need to make sure there are no defects in the wood. Here it looks like the knot in the wood kept it from maintaning the curve.

[Chad]

How are those bends looking?

[jason the filter freak]

im going to attempt to bend three ribs tonight, in the mean time im going to of course see how the test bent rib turned out.

[jason the filter freak]

Buying 80 feet of wood at 10 at night gets you funny looks at home depot.

 

Let the bending begin!

 

 

[Chad]

Those pictures are awesome!

 

 

How did the test bend/ actual bends work out?

 

 

[Biscuit]

any updates yet?

[jason the filter freak]

the wood bends are still in the jig/clamps I'm going to give them till monday to dry out, some staining has been done on the tank, the sump and ato have been leak tested, the euro brace has been installed on the sump, I've got the plumbing idea laid out in my head

[jason the filter freak]

 

yep thats the jig right der son, thats how i roll, well i'm hoping its going to work out, the banding straps are a major PITA but are still pretty invaluable