Low PH - use outside air does not work, what else?

[bcjm]

My tank PH is pretty low, between 7.8 - 7.6. I have a calcium reactor and I drip Kalk. There was a thread few days ago regarding low PH. Many people suggested to use the outside air for the skimmer. Does not seem to work for me. Is there any other way I can do to increase the PH?

[cabrego]

My tank PH is pretty low, between 7.8 - 7.6. I have a calcium reactor and I drip Kalk. There was a thread few days ago regarding low PH. Many people suggested to use the outside air for the skimmer. Does not seem to work for me. Is there any other way I can do to increase the PH?

[cabrego]

CO2 concentration in your water and alkalinity are big drivers for determining what your PH will be. What is your alkalinity? Can you described how you used outside air to aerate your tank?

[droyal1110]

I had problems with my PH as well from it being in the basement. What helped me was point powerheads at the surface, having fans in my canopy to move fresh air, leaving the door open to the rest of the house, and having a light on over my fuge (w/ cheato) opposite of my display light times.

 

You may have a bigger problem than I have with the dosing factors but hope that helps.

[Boret]

You could use something like this:

 

 

You can find more info HERE.

[Jon Lazar]

You can run a refugium on an opposite light schedule from your DT to prevent the pH from dipping as low.

 

I would also check your pH probe calibration before making too many changes.

[flowerseller]

I had problems with my PH as well from it being in the basement. What helped me was point powerheads at the surface, having fans in my canopy to move fresh air, leaving the door open to the rest of the house, and having a light on over my fuge (w/ cheato) opposite of my display light times.

 

You may have a bigger problem than I have with the dosing factors but hope that helps.

 

Above info is good.

Check your probe calibration as well and where you have it located. Too close to reactor out puts can also effect reading.

[DJBoy98]

First calibrate/replace your PH Probe. I just did it this weekend and it was a off by .2!

 

You can always run the calcium reactor during the day and shutting down the CO2 at night. This will help keep it higher at night

when the lights are out.

[Boret]

Things to read;

 

Low pH: Causes and Cures

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

 

The Relationship Between Alkalinity and pH.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2002/chem.htm

 

Indoor CO2 Problems

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2002/short.htm

[bcjm]

You can run a refugium on an opposite light schedule from your DT to prevent the pH from dipping as low.

 

I would also check your pH probe calibration before making too many changes.

 

The PH value shown on the ACIII is consistent with the reading from a test kit so I think the reading is correct.

 

My refugium has never doing well.

I do have good surface water movement. I have 2 4" icecap fan in the hood.

 

That Eight.Four looks interesting. Anyone used it with good result?

Edited November 2, 2009 by bcjm

[khalid]

you can add an efluent chamber to your calcium reactor o get rid of any extra CO2 and like others have said run a reverse cycle fuge as well.

[Jon Lazar]

You can always run the calcium reactor during the day and shutting down the CO2 at night. This will help keep it higher at night

when the lights are out.

 

That's a clever idea.

[DaveS]

Are you on well? Have you checked the pH of the water from you tap?

 

I'm on well and have recently figured out that the pH coming out is like 6.0 or something silly low.

[cabrego]

ALKALINITY?????

[bcjm]

ALKALINITY?????

 

 

Alkalinity 10-11 dkh

calcium 420 ppm

mag 1300 ppm

[Origami]

Adding a buffer like the product shown above is not going to work over the long term. While pH and alkalinity are connected, they are not dependent upon one another. The carbonate / bicarbonate ratio is dependent upon pH but you're not going to shift pH in the long term by adding more buffer. You'll get spike in pH that will fall back as the pH equilibrium is re-established. In the long run, you'll have low pH and very high alkalinity if you try to use a buffer to correct this problem. I'm assuming, of course, that you water has sufficient buffering capacity right now and, judging from your alkalinity measurement (10-11 dKH), you do have that. (Is there any reason to question the accuracy of your alkalinity measurement?)

 

If your pH measurements are accurate - and if I were you, I'd get my hands on some quality calibration fluid and make sure of this before making any big adjustments - then the low pH that you're seeing is in all likelihood coming from a high level of carbon dioxide dissolved in the water. (It could also result from excessive feeding resulting in a production of organic acids, but typically this balances out as the biological filtration settles and is no longer cycling.) This high CO2 concentration comes about in one of a couple of ways: It's either added from inside the tank (by breathing organisms) and can't be vented off quickly enough (the speed of which can be slowed in environments with elevated CO2), or it's added from outside the tank (as is the case in a very high CO2 environment). Either way, it's about equilibrium.

 

One of the links provided recommends a test where you take a cup or so of your tank water and aerate it with fresh, outside air, taking before and after pH measurements ("The Aeration Test"). This test forces an equilibrium with the CO2 level present in normal, outside air. If the air inside, near your tank, is very high in CO2, this test will show you because the pH of your sample will rise as it "off gasses" the CO2 dissolved in your tank water. If the pH does not shift appreciably in response to the aeration test, then your low pH is not due to high CO2 in your tank water, but other sources (organic acids, inaccurate measurements, low buffering capacity (alkalinity)).

 

If the result of the test is a significant shift upward of pH in the sample, then your tank could benefit from additional means of releasing the CO2 trapped in the water. This can be done by aerating with outside fresh air (through a skimmer or airstone). It can also be done with better surface agitation provided that the air around the tank is not high in CO2 (better surface agitation in a high CO2 environment does little good because the CO2 in the water is not released as readily).

 

In summary: Try the aeration test first. Also, part with a buck or two and get some pH calibration fluid - pH 7.0 and pH 10.0 - and make sure that your pH probe really is reading right. Third, check your alkalinity again using a different test kit from a different manufacturer. Let's see what you get from those actions first, and go on from there.

[cabrego]

Origami is pretty much summed it up.

 

Assuming your measurements are correct dissolved CO2 is likely your issue. That is why I asked you to describe how you aerated your tank water with outside air.

 

For the record, I have completed an aeration test, and found it to be a good indication. An interesting thing I observed was that when I aerated my tank with fresh air, I observed a larger increase in ph than when I aerated a cup of water. Probably due, to the fact that I aerated the cup for about 20 min, and aerated the tank overnight.

 

GL keep us posted...

[bbyatv]

I run a Calc reactor as well and my pH was running around 7.8. I was adding as much Kalkwasser as I could based on the amount of evaporation in my tank. I added a nice big fan over my sump that rune 24-7. I can now add way more Kalkwasser and my pH is controllable. If I want higher pH I turn up my Kalkwasser dosing pump a little and turn down the dosing pump on the Calc reactor. If I want to lower my pH I turn down the dosing pump on the Kalkwasser and turn up the dosing pump on my Calc reactor. I keep my pH where it reads about 8.05 in the morning and 8.25 in the late day. My alk runs at 11, my calc runs at 430, and Mg 1300.

 

The dosing pump on my Calc reactor is set to deliver 24.7 ml/min affluent with the pH in the chamber set at 6.6.

The dosing pump on my Kalkwasser stir is set to deliver 1.0 ml/min saturated Kalk affluent.

My tank is 90g.

 

Adding the fan so I could add more Kalk was the key for me.

 

Bruce