existing client wants to make money on coral

[zygote2k]

The 150 that I do maintenance on wants to go to the next level. I'm wondering which corals I should grow to get the most return on the investment?

I know there are several people that do this here- what are your suggestions? You know who you are...

[reefhunter]

high dollar sps!! find that list of top 10 sps from a few months ago... buy those... and sell them!! lol...

[CHUBAKAH]

+1 on the SPS.

[Sikryd]

SPS and colorful chalices.

 

I'd bypass anything that has a cool name but not cool color.

[zygote2k]

give me some names of chalices and nice sps please!

[Sikryd]

There are some nice threads on R2R where can see all the names, pictures and such.

[DDiver]

Jmo but I would say that chalices would be the last thing to try and mak money off of..they grow too slow and even the fast growing ones like Bubblegum monster, so many people already have them and u will have a hard time selling them I you are not a reputable seller..I would stick with sps'...again that's jmo..

[lanman]

It takes a lot of space to grow enough frags to really be worth the trouble. Does he really want to clog his display tank up with frag racks? Or is he putting in a separate frag tank?

 

Don't know what he and his tank are capable of - get a couple of really nice, really different monti-caps. Grows fast - make small frags and grow them out; they look better that way.

 

bob

[DDiver]

he wants to "get the most return for the investment"..i don't think you will get that from monti caps..well not everyday green/orange/puple caps at least..we pretty much just give those away..but if we are talking high end caps with crazy polyp/base color combo then thats a different story i.e. Tyree Flower Petal cap..or even just any high end sps like someine mentioned..take the AE Icefire Echinata for example..you won't find that piece for less than $100 for a 3/4" unless you got friends.

[stevearlen]

he wants to "get the most return for the investment"..

that would be a WAMAS membership

[davelin315]

Honestly, if he has to ask, then he's probably not ready to do this yet. The reason I say this is that most people who are going to make money off of corals are the ones who are already expert at growing them out and are familiar enough with corals to know which ones are worth doing and which ones aren't. There's a good reason why not a lot of people make good money off of corals - the ones that grow like weeds that are easy to frag up and mass produce are not worth much of anything and the ones that are worth a lot are not as easy to grow. If they are, they quickly become inexpensive corals. If your client is not an expert reef keeper, I think he'll struggle to make money off of it. If he's dead set on it, having him look at some of the sites like Atlantis, Reeffarmers, Fragfarmer, etc. Those are the places where you'll see waiting lists that go on for years. Even guys like Bob (lanman) who claim to be inexperienced guys are in my point of view very experienced in growing corals and do a fantastic job with it, but there's a lot of time and effort involved.

[Sikryd]

Honestly, if he has to ask, then he's probably not ready to do this yet. The reason I say this is that most people who are going to make money off of corals are the ones who are already expert at growing them out and are familiar enough with corals to know which ones are worth doing and which ones aren't. There's a good reason why not a lot of people make good money off of corals - the ones that grow like weeds that are easy to frag up and mass produce are not worth much of anything and the ones that are worth a lot are not as easy to grow. If they are, they quickly become inexpensive corals. If your client is not an expert reef keeper, I think he'll struggle to make money off of it. If he's dead set on it, having him look at some of the sites like Atlantis, Reeffarmers, Fragfarmer, etc. Those are the places where you'll see waiting lists that go on for years. Even guys like Bob (lanman) who claim to be inexperienced guys are in my point of view very experienced in growing corals and do a fantastic job with it, but there's a lot of time and effort involved.

 

+1

 

Somehow I ventured from doing a reef on a budget, then decided to do a little more. Then after the wife talking me into doing a little more with it I decided to go forth with doing some sort of coral propagation. I still haven't decided 100% yet. Since I am going to be a stay at home Dad I figured it might be a good plan to make a little extra money doing something I really enjoy.

The investment in time, research, testing, and general reefing is often overlooked as an expense. It is extremely time consuming when you have 20k+ tied up in livestock. This isn't just if you want to sell stuff, but just keeping a nice looking reef with great color.

If I added up the time, reading, and research I have done on reefing just in the last couple years it would be insane. I can't imagine the guys that have done this for years.

 

After learning for myself what it takes to have a nice colorful reef, I definitely have a LOT more respect and understanding of the amount of time that those with the same have put in it.

 

I guess it matters if your client is looking for a quick short term monetary gain, a reef that he enjoys but would like to sell frags from in a couple of years, or farming.

I decided that I wouldn't mind spending a few dollars on some real nice livestock, then be able to sell frags in a year or two. Stocking with all high-end stuff is nice, but the amount of time and energy that goes into it isn't worth it unless you really enjoy it and are doing it more for yourself. At least that is my take on it.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Sikryd

[Jon Lazar]

Since I am going to be a stay at home Dad I figured it might be a good plan to make a little extra money doing something I really enjoy.

 

IMO you'll have almost no free time for expanded reefing with a new baby in the house. Fortunately, they only drain your time, energy, and money for about 20 years.

[zygote2k]

Client says she is willing to take 6 months or longer to turn a profit and realizes some of these corals grow slowly. Also realizes that some of the frags will cost between upwards of $100 each. After playing with the PAR meter and figuring out where the high light zone is, we'll be rebuiling the rock structure to take advantage of it. The tank as it is now has a thriving coral population consisting of mainly softies with some LPS and SPS thrown in for good measure. There are 2 people that pay attention to water chemistry and the overall condition of the fish and coral. There won't be any frag racks or a seperate frag system- it will all have to grow in the DT. I'm thinking about 3 or 4 nice SPS up top, a few chalices a little lower, some nicer monti caps and zoas lower still. I think the biggest factor here is the actual time it takes to grow them into nice colonies that can be broken up. I don't think she is expecting to make a huge profit, but maybe enough to pay for maintenance and livestock costs. I think that is a reasonable goal to achieve in 6 months. The tank has been established for over a year and has stable water chemistry. Why not?

[flowerseller]

I think you should go for it.

Have her look at some pictures of corals, pick ones she likes, and grow those.

If it turns a profit, great, if not, great looking tank of stuff she likes.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

google "bird puke coral"

 

The money is in bird puke.

[zygote2k]

I also figure if I'm going to be a responsible and respectable maintenance guy, I should be promoting this idea to all my customers. After all is said and done, If I can't grow the exotic corals as well as the common corals, I shouldn't be doing maintenance.

[ctenophore]

I am guessing that your client's intention is not wanting to involve herself in propagating corals, but rather spending for nice pieces, then having you take frags and sell them, then splitting the proceeds with her? If that is the case, with you doing most (all) the work, then she will make a little money depending on your agreement with her.

 

6 months is not a realistic timeframe for making a profit from aquaculture of any coral. The rare sps are rare because they grow slowly. You're looking at 2 years minimum before they are large enough to a) see from more than 2' away and b) take 1" frags from in a sustainable manner. Don't get me started on chalices. IMO spending $hundreds on a blip of flesh that you almost need a magnifying glass to see is not going to net you a profit for a long time, if ever. We will see the market become saturated with WC multicolored eye chalices within the next 6 months. I think they are beautiful but unless you are a chopshop that can get a good supply of WC pieces, you will never make a profit with them.

 

Lastly, you will need a reasonably good frag holding setup that can allow the frags to encrust and retain perfect color. This is not a trivial expense. Once you are ready to sell, you need customers and shipping supplies. Those two take some effort too. It's not as simple as toss in a bag and collect a fat check. People complain, things die in transit, etc.

 

Sorry to sound overly negative, just trying to make sure you get the whole picture so as not to hurt your relationship with your customer.

[Coral Hind]

I think you should go for it.

Have her look at some pictures of corals, pick ones she likes, and grow those.

If it turns a profit, great, if not, great looking tank of stuff she likes.

 

This is great advice and exactly what I was thinking as I read through the thread.

 

She doesn't have to go the expensive route as there is still a demand for the easier to keep SPS as newbies enter the hobby. Sure most here at WAMAS have moved past corals like the monti digi but there is still a market for it and a LFS will still trade it in for store credit. The Green Slimer or Blue Tipped Staghorn are great corals for her to start with as they grow really fast and have a nice color/shape.

[zygote2k]

As Justin said- I'll be doing the work and she'll be footing the bill. They and their customers already immensely enjoy the tank and the regular corals. It has taken a year and a half to get it to this level. As Dave S says, "It's time to move up the ladder". Another year of growing the exotics to make a profit is easily doable. As far as customers go, I know of several LFS's that buy locally propagated corals.

 

 

Thanks for all the advice- I'm already growing Green Slimer, Nuke Greens and Tubbs Blues. I'm going to add some Purple Deaths, Superman Monti, Purple Nurple Monti, Montipora Setosa, Oregon Tort, Pink Limeade, a few Tyree sps yet to be determined and a few chalices yet to be determined. I'm growing many of these currently in other tanks and can estimate their respective growth rates. Most of these are slow growers and probably won't be fraggable in less than 1 year. In another year however, the zoas will have multiplied like rabbits and I can start there.

[Sikryd]

IMO you'll have almost no free time for expanded reefing with a new baby in the house. Fortunately, they only drain your time, energy, and money for about 20 years.

 

LOL - yeah no doubt! I heard it changes the whole meaning of being broke! I am not going to expand at all. I wouldn't run another system if the whole thing was given to me.

 

I think you should go for it.

Have her look at some pictures of corals, pick ones she likes, and grow those.

If it turns a profit, great, if not, great looking tank of stuff she likes.

 

This is what I ended up doing. Picking corals I really like - including the dreaded chalices lol - I don't care if any of them sell to be honest. I really like most of them, and the ones I didn't I have already sold.

 

If I was you, I would definitely learn about chalices prior to buying them if you haven't already - wild ones that are fragged up will usually either die, brown out, or never really grow. That is from personal experiece. They have to be in our tanks for a year prior to doing any of that. I learned the hard way on quite a few pieces.... That is not 100% of course, just my experience with them.

 

Justin's advice on the 2 year plan is a good one. I know for me, I get hit up all the time for stuff. I can't imagine how I could sell frags of anything for at least a year. Some stuff I can if it grows quicker, or I bought it bigger. But for the most part it takes time to grow a nice sweet display that needs some underwater gardening to keep it in check.

 

<rant on> This is just my take on some of the crazier stuff going on - I got a little tied up in that thinking for a bit too awhile back, I'm not perfect either - I'd love to be able to line my pockets.

Just my opinion - I think there are wayyyyyyy too many people with frag tanks and no displays that are only in the hobby to make money via propagation.

 

I'm all for making a few bucks to help buy new coral, offset costs, ect. But to only have a frag display to grow something to sell a 1/2 frag or 1 polyp is what has turned the hobby from something fun for everyone into a frenzy to make money.

Someone is going to do it, and people pay, but there is a point where I need to look at myself and see if that is what I want to support.

I have read more than one thread on Purple Hornets being slow growers. ANYTHING thing is if you frag it when it is little more than 2 polyps, or 2" acro, or .002 chalice frag - lol <rant-off>

[lanman]

Thanks for all the advice- I'm already growing Green Slimer, Nuke Greens and Tubbs Blues. I'm going to add some Purple Deaths, Superman Monti, Purple Nurple Monti, Montipora Setosa, Oregon Tort, Pink Limeade, a few Tyree sps yet to be determined and a few chalices yet to be determined. I'm growing many of these currently in other tanks and can estimate their respective growth rates. Most of these are slow growers and probably won't be fraggable in less than 1 year. In another year however, the zoas will have multiplied like rabbits and I can start there.

Excellent choices...

 

bob

[Sikryd]

^^^^ +1

 

I'd add the Tyree Jedi Mind Trick monti, Sand dollar monti, and a good reverse sunset.

 

There are so many nice chalices out its hard to pick. Plus it matters how much you want to spend.

 

Depending on how much she wants to spend, it is probably best to find someone with a nice collection, then buy it as a package deal. That is what I tried to do most of the time.