traveller7 February 15, 2009 Share February 15, 2009 I doubt I would use spacers on rectangular tank for duty outside of positioning the clamps, jigs, braces, etc. The rubber tile spacers are handy for test runs and protecting the glass edges prior to the final attachment. I did have to use spacing materials on an oddly shaped tank without beveled glass. In this case the "spacers" were a thick silicone bead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 15, 2009 Author Share February 15, 2009 Ok, so let's say I get my glass all cleaned, I've got all my clams and my silicone ready to go. How tightly do I squeeze the seams together? I just measured the caulk on my Solana and there is a 1/16" caulk bead (this was measured at the midpoint of the seam). How do you know when to stop tightening the clamp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller7 February 15, 2009 Share February 15, 2009 Ok, so let's say I get my glass all cleaned, I've got all my clams and my silicone ready to go. How tightly do I squeeze the seams together? I just measured the caulk on my Solana and there is a 1/16" caulk bead (this was measured at the midpoint of the seam). How do you know when to stop tightening the clamp? I can't help you with this, in the only similar reconstruction I have attempted, the panels were so heavy they determined the depth. In my situation, the 90 degree clamps strictly maintained perpendicular angles. The angle clamps did not pull the panels together, gravity provided this function and I used angle braces on the tops post construction. Since the bottom sits inside the sides....I am not sure you will end up having much choice on depth. Have you trial fit the panels yet to determine if a certain depth is required for an actual "cube" result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 15, 2009 Author Share February 15, 2009 I'm going to have to call one of the high end tank makers and find out the best way to go. My GC tank came with the bottom pane sitting inside of all the outer panes. I just looked at my Solana and it has the same thing.....the bottom pane fits inside of all the vertical panes. However, all of the links I've found on re-sealing an aquarium references the vertical panes resting on the bottom pane. Man, this is confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal February 16, 2009 Share February 16, 2009 Most tanks have the bottom glass panel inside and surrounded by the side panels. It really doesn't matter though, the basic idea is the same either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabrego February 16, 2009 Share February 16, 2009 Wow, I will personally never buy a tank from the glasscages if that is indeed their policy. Is it to much to ask for a tank that doesn't leak. If there tanks can not be filled upon receiving, they should not ship it out until it is fully cured. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller7 February 16, 2009 Share February 16, 2009 (edited) I'm going to have to call one of the high end tank makers and find out the best way to go. My GC tank came with the bottom pane sitting inside of all the outer panes. I just looked at my Solana and it has the same thing.....the bottom pane fits inside of all the vertical panes. However, all of the links I've found on re-sealing an aquarium references the vertical panes resting on the bottom pane. Man, this is confusing. It is easier to construct without specialized tools in a sides on the bottom approach because the base becomes the alignment tool. This is a DIY'er method. Remember most commerical aquariums with rims have the bottom panel floating and the weight is distributed fully to the 4 sides. I don't believe I have seen a Glass Cages tank constructed in that fashion. I have not seen the Solana, is the bottom panel floating? Edited February 16, 2009 by traveller7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 16, 2009 Author Share February 16, 2009 I guess you would call it floating.......all I know is the side panels extend all the way to the stand. So, one method is not better (sturdier) than another? The tank will be resting on a tabletop stand, so the support will be evenly distributed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller7 February 17, 2009 Share February 17, 2009 I guess you would call it floating.......all I know is the side panels extend all the way to the stand. So, one method is not better (sturdier) than another? The tank will be resting on a tabletop stand, so the support will be evenly distributed. I can't recall seeing an O'dell, All-Glass, or Perfecto tank made without a floating bottom since the Meta Frame days and slate bottoms. Not sure whether it was physics, the sides in rim, ease of construction, etc., which prompted that design. I'd do my best to duplicate the original build. Has contact with the Glass Cages folks been worthless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 20, 2009 Author Share February 20, 2009 I'd do my best to duplicate the original build. Has contact with the Glass Cages folks been worthless? Worthless would be a good way to describe it. They were my best friends when I was ordering the tank but once they found out something was wrong with it they treated me like crap. And, it basically comes down to the way they have their warranty written........I'd have to pay to ship the tank back to them and they would determine if it was their fault or not. Even if H-E-double hockey sticks froze over and they actually admitted that it was their fault, I'd still have to pay for them to ship the tank back to me once they re-sealed it. Anyways, I'm getting close to being ready to go on re-sealing it. As it turns out, I can get a penny in between each pane of glass at the joints. Now I just have to get a thin, black, silicone spacer the width of a penny to put between the glass when I re-seal it to keep all of the seams equally seperated and to allow the caulk to get in between the glass. My only issue is figuring out how to do the whole thing at once. The caulk will film over in 5-7 minutes. So the way I figure it, i'll have to measure and tape all of the glass ahead of time. Now, do I clamp the entire thing together with the spacers in place and force the silicone bead inbetween the panes......or do I run a thick bead of caulk on each pane and install them one at a time? I would think that clamping the whole thing together with the spacers and forcing the caulk into the joints would probably be more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 February 20, 2009 Share February 20, 2009 Not that I have any experience with this type of work at all, but if you can do two separate beads of silicone, I would think you could clamp the aquarium together using your pennies as spacers, silicone a bead throughout the inside so that it holds the whole thing together, let this dry, and then put the beads between the glass. I remember seeing someone's Oceanic tank that had some clear spacers between the glass. Could you use some small pieces of glass to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 20, 2009 Author Share February 20, 2009 Not that I have any experience with this type of work at all, but if you can do two separate beads of silicone, I would think you could clamp the aquarium together using your pennies as spacers, silicone a bead throughout the inside so that it holds the whole thing together, let this dry, and then put the beads between the glass. I remember seeing someone's Oceanic tank that had some clear spacers between the glass. Could you use some small pieces of glass to do this? I was actually thinking about cutting some thin pieces of black plastic tubing since I only need about 1/16" and I'm going to be using black silicone. The only thing that worries me about doing the 2 seperate beads of silicone is that they won't stick to each other. I was thinking that if I got everything taped and got the pieces of glass clamped together, I could force the silicone in the seams and smooth the inside corner beads at the same time. That way the only place I would need spacers is in between the side panes and the bottom pane. I could still use the pennies here, I could just pull them out after forcing the silicone in the seams and smooth it over when I run the corner beads. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAGA February 20, 2009 Share February 20, 2009 I have spoken to Miracles up in Canada in the past about how they build their aquariums as well as several other glass tank mfgs. I have spoken to Steve about these mfgs. and they seem to do things where the sides sit on top of the bottom (not floating bottom). In addition they all use spacers in between their silicone joints. The purpose of which was explained to me as to not squeezing out the silicone. Glass Cages does not use spacers and when tanks are clamped or taped up with uneven pressures you have variances in the joint which are not favorable for strength and long term durability. Now I build tanks myself albeit acrylic I do understand however the concepts and practices of what makes tanks hold together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore February 20, 2009 Share February 20, 2009 Have you found the leak location? Might it be worth a try to simply dab a small bead of silicone over +/- 1 or 2 inches of the leak area on the inside and see if it holds? Worst case you cut the tank apart anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman February 20, 2009 Share February 20, 2009 in the same vein... why would you take the whole tank apart, when it sounds like one pane is leaking? If the bottom 'floats' - i.e., is surrounded by glass - I would think you could remove only the pane of glass with a leak. Then you would have the bottom, and the other three sides already correct, and you would just have to add the last pane. In fact - you could probably lay it on its side, with the pane you are replacing on top ... IF that pane is one of the 'long' panes (covers the ends of the other two). I guess we would have to see it to understand the whole thing. ((PICTURES??)) bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 20, 2009 Author Share February 20, 2009 I guess we would have to see it to understand the whole thing. ((PICTURES??)) bob I could post pictures, but they would just be of pieces of glass now. The way glasscages builds their tanks, other than being crappy, they put a 1-1/2" wide border around the bottom of the tank. I think they do this to give extra support because of the $hitty silicone jobs they do. I already got the tank cut apart and the glass cleaned and the silicone is on order. I figure that clamping the tank together and forcing the silicone into the gaps will give me a nice even seal. As said above, the way GC did it was to run the beads of silicone on the glass and squeez it all together...........so all of the silicone was squeezed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanCallan February 20, 2009 Share February 20, 2009 Man this sucks to hear! If you need a hand on the weekend getting this tank back together feel free to shoot me a message! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 20, 2009 Share February 20, 2009 You could make and use this relatively easy jig for gluing: Take a piece of 1/2" plywood and rout 4 slots the same thickness as the glass. Cut the slots so they are at 90 degree angles to each other with 2 parallel slots on the outside and 2 on the inside like a square. Make sure the slots don't touch- gap should be whatever thickness the silicone gap will be. You can glue almost the entire tank with the exception of a 1/2" at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 20, 2009 Author Share February 20, 2009 The reason I'm talking about doing it the way that I am is that I've been advised that the entire tank needs to be sealed at the same time. Since it's a rimless tank, the silicone between the glass is what holds the whole tank together. If I were to do it seperately, I'd have to put new silicone over dried silicone........and this greatly increases the chance of a leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 20, 2009 Share February 20, 2009 You'd be filling all the gaps at one time except for 1/2". I assume the 1/2" is where the bottom glass will go. You'd be filling 8 gaps at one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 20, 2009 Author Share February 20, 2009 (edited) You'd be filling all the gaps at one time except for 1/2". I assume the 1/2" is where the bottom glass will go. You'd be filling 8 gaps at one time. I guess I'm not understanding what you are suggesting. I was planning on putting the bottom pane of glass on a level surface and using clamps to put the 4 side panels around the bottom pane (after all the glass has been taped for neat silicone edges). The clamps will keep the spacing correct at the top of the tank and I was going to use some sort of spacer to keep the side panes the proper distance from the bottom pane. Then I force the silicone into all of the gaps, not being stingy at all with the application. Once applied I can pop out the bottom spacers and use silicone tool to smooth the corner beads. Once that is done I'll pull the tape off before the silicone has a chance to skin over. Edited February 20, 2009 by steveoutlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 20, 2009 Share February 20, 2009 Well- if you make the jig that I proposed, you could always put some bracing flush with the outside edges of the grooves and not make them so deep to allow the bottom glass to sit flush with the edges of the side panels. You'll also need to make a jig out of plywood with grooves to hold it together at the top after it's all been siliconed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefmontalvo February 20, 2009 Share February 20, 2009 PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 20, 2009 Author Share February 20, 2009 Well- if you make the jig that I proposed, you could always put some bracing flush with the outside edges of the grooves and not make them so deep to allow the bottom glass to sit flush with the edges of the side panels. You'll also need to make a jig out of plywood with grooves to hold it together at the top after it's all been siliconed together. Ok, now I see what you are saying. I've got the corner clamps to hold the tops of the glass panes together but I like your idea about building a frame for the bottom of the tank. I just want to make sure that the outer vertical seams are accessible because I want to smooth those as well.........I'm going to try to make this thing look professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 18, 2009 Share April 18, 2009 Came across this today, Steve, and thought of your reconstruction project: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-04/...lides/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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