help my tang is dying

[fosterspike]

Kick Ich is not copper-based (which are the meds that are affected by the presence of live rock) and is not affected by biofiltration. It's effectiveness is reduced by carbon and skimming, though.

 

Somebody else here was using kick ich a few weeks ago with some fish. I don't recall their outcome, though. For some reason, I thought it was not good. Hmmm... I'll have to search to refresh my memory.

 

i turned off the protein skimmer while i was treating the tank.

 

If you don't have a QT tank or follow a rigorous QT regimen, now would be the perfect time to start.

 

EDIT:

Where did you get this tang, anyway?

 

i have a QT but i havent used it really.

 

the tang came from blue ribbon koi

[MisterTang]

i turned off the protein skimmer while i was treating the tank.

 

 

 

i have a QT but i havent used it really.

 

the tang came from blue ribbon koi

 

 

Ok... I don't mean to rub salt in the wound, but you may have prevented this if you had used your QT. I'm sure hindsight is 20/20.

[fosterspike]

Ok... I don't mean to rub salt in the wound, but you may have prevented this if you had used your QT. I'm sure hindsight is 20/20.

 

i know i probably could have at least im learning.

[fosterspike]

To be safe, let your tank rest six weeks before you introduce fish again.

 

what about inverts though like crabs, snails, corals, ect?

[vaironman]

If you don't have a QT tank or follow a rigorous QT regimen, now would be the perfect time to start.

 

EDIT:

Where did you get this tang, anyway?

 

 

In this case, Fishes got ich due to stress user's created, not from LFS.

Edited January 19, 2009 by vaironman

[Origami]

i turned off the protein skimmer while i was treating the tank.

 

You did what you could given the circumstances and the product.

 

i have a QT but i havent used it really.

 

It's tough. Sometimes we're too eager. Most of the time we dodge the bullet, but when it gets us, it's hard.

 

what about inverts though like crabs, snails, corals, ect?

 

They'll be OK during the fish-hiatus. The ich parasite requires a fish as a host. Get your fishes out and their life cycle will be broken. Some people crank the temperature up on their tank (80 F) to speed up the life cycle. I'd probably just leave things as they are and run six weeks without fish. You may also want to run carbon sometime toward the end of the downtime just to remove any trace of the medication (which will probably be gone, but it doesn't hurt).

[Sharkey18]

Hey I lost all my fish to ick a few months ago. Kick ick and other easy cure additives are not going to work. And and might even ruin your entire tank. You must have a QT (don't worry I didn't either) and QT fish before they enter your display. Once you have ick, you're in trouble.

 

Now if you have any fish left either remove them to a QT and treat or wait for them to die. If you can save any that is great.

The ick parasite can live in your tank for 4 weeks WITH NO FISH HOST. If you really want to get rid of the ick you should wait FOUR WEEKS before adding any fish back. Really 6 is better.

 

after 4 - 6 weeks, you can add fish back after you've QT them. Good news is that if you set up a QT now you can buy a fish in a week, QT it and it will be ready to put i the display in a few weeks.

 

It has been 2 months since all my fish died and I currently have 1 fish in my tank. The good news is that while i had no fish i was able to really concentrate on the corals, the water conditions and my hair algae problem disappeared. I am adding fish back very slowly, monitoring water quality to make sure all is good.

 

the thing to remember is once you have ick the infected fish needs to removed asap. If you remove and treat properly with tried and true methods you have a chance. the time you wasted with kick ich just let it spread get worse and allow secondary infections.

 

Good luck!

[fosterspike]

Hey I lost all my fish to ick a few months ago. Kick ick and other easy cure additives are not going to work. And and might even ruin your entire tank. You must have a QT (don't worry I didn't either) and QT fish before they enter your display. Once you have ick, you're in trouble.

 

Now if you have any fish left either remove them to a QT and treat or wait for them to die. If you can save any that is great.

The ick parasite can live in your tank for 4 weeks WITH NO FISH HOST. If you really want to get rid of the ick you should wait FOUR WEEKS before adding any fish back. Really 6 is better.

 

after 4 - 6 weeks, you can add fish back after you've QT them. Good news is that if you set up a QT now you can buy a fish in a week, QT it and it will be ready to put i the display in a few weeks.

 

It has been 2 months since all my fish died and I currently have 1 fish in my tank. The good news is that while i had no fish i was able to really concentrate on the corals, the water conditions and my hair algae problem disappeared. I am adding fish back very slowly, monitoring water quality to make sure all is good.

 

the thing to remember is once you have ick the infected fish needs to removed asap. If you remove and treat properly with tried and true methods you have a chance. the time you wasted with kick ich just let it spread get worse and allow secondary infections.

 

Good luck!

 

im pretty sure i saw a topic you had about coral only tanks, and i was plan pretty much the same thing.

 

thanks for the help

[vaironman]

Another piece of equipment that really helps against ich is the UV light. Try to look into that.

 

HTH,

[Sharkey18]

im pretty sure i saw a topic you had about coral only tanks, and i was plan pretty much the same thing.

 

Yeah, that was me. It's a tough lesson huh? I lost all my fish as well. But really, I had a major hair algae issue as well and it is completely gone now. My tank crash was a series of events, like yours, that led to the fish dying. Luckily all my corals did great, I added a few emerald mithrax crabs to keep the tank "busy" and now I am adding fish back one by one. All I have is a 6 line wrasse. plus the mithrax and now a coral banded shrimp. My tank was overloaded, only 10 months old and no QT. There you go. The COWLR post was kind of a joke but kind of serious seeing how FAST my algae cleared up without having to deal with feeding fish, waste etc. In the end my tank is a LOT healthier now, clean with no hair algae, and I am watching my levels closely as i add in fish.

 

Good luck and enjoy your cowlr for a while. Add a few large shrimp to keep it interesting!!

 

Laura

[fosterspike]

Yeah, that was me. It's a tough lesson huh? I lost all my fish as well. But really, I had a major hair algae issue as well and it is completely gone now. My tank crash was a series of events, like yours, that led to the fish dying. Luckily all my corals did great, I added a few emerald mithrax crabs to keep the tank "busy" and now I am adding fish back one by one. All I have is a 6 line wrasse. plus the mithrax and now a coral banded shrimp. My tank was overloaded, only 10 months old and no QT. There you go. The COWLR post was kind of a joke but kind of serious seeing how FAST my algae cleared up without having to deal with feeding fish, waste etc. In the end my tank is a LOT healthier now, clean with no hair algae, and I am watching my levels closely as i add in fish.

 

Good luck and enjoy your cowlr for a while. Add a few large shrimp to keep it interesting!!

 

Laura

 

i have a cleaner shrimp but does it need to eat parasites off fish?

i have a giant hair algea problem too

i was thinking off adding to my clean up crew alot, i only have like 5 hermits, 3 turbo snails, 2-3 margarita snails, 1-2 sand stars, and that cleaner shrimp

[fosterspike]

Another piece of equipment that really helps against ich is the UV light. Try to look into that.

 

HTH,

 

are these really necessary? i looked at some and they are pretty expensive.

 

if i ever get my tank running again and add the 1-2 other tanks i have planned ill look into this more.(i want to get a tank for cuttles and a mantis in the same system)

Edited January 19, 2009 by fosterspike

[extreme_tooth_decay]

are these really necessary i looked at some and they are pretty expensive?

 

 

All depends who you talk to. For me, the answer is a very emphatic "no", but I respect different folks having different approaches.

 

tim

[Sugar Magnolia]

I'm wondering how old your tank is? Can you give us some more specifics...tank size, water params, start up and cycle time, how many fish and when they were introduced? I know you just lost all of your fish, but alot of things could have caused the ich outbreak. Stress being a primary concern. If they were added too soon to a tank that wasn't quite ready for fish, or if you added alot at one time, it could cause an ammonia spike.

 

Sorry for your loss!

[Sharkey18]

Here's what I did. After fish were gone. I removed what rocks I could and scrubbed them with a toothbrush, rinse and put them back. I set up a 5 gallon bucket of warmed 1.025 sg water and scrubbed them in that. After one or two rocks the water was black. The large rocks that had coral on I left in the tank and scrubbed with a tooth brush. It makes the water a disaster so a heavy mechanical filtration system is necessary to remove he particulates. I just use a 100 micron filter pad in the sump and a hang in the tank "water polisher": just a power head with an attached mechanical filter. I also removed my bioballs and cleaned out a LOT of detritus in the bottom of the sump which I strongly suspects was a major source of algae nutrients. I chose not to use bioballs any more and added the 100 micron filter pad to act as a particulate filter to keep detritus out of the sump.

 

With no fish I did NO feeding except a little sea weed for the crabs maybe 2 or 3 times a week. I cut my lights down to 6 hrs. on only. Just enough to keep the corals alive. Then wait. I also run a very small DIY ATS which I do think helps.

 

After the last scrubbing with no fish to feed, my algae grew back at half the rate it did before. After about 2 weeks, i scrubbed the rock again of any algae that seemed to be taking hold, which was very little. After that the algae just never grew back and I started leaving the lights on longer and longer. and this time the algae never grew back. No one was more surprised than me. I really couldn't believe it.

 

be careful about what cleaners you add. My tank crash started with too many turbo's. I added what was recommended. Bad news. They only eat diatoms I believe. So with so many they started starving and dying. Also they fall over and can't right themselves and die. Apparently they are not intended to live in reef / rock environments and adding turbo's is a death sentence for the snails and a disaster for the tank when they start dying. I will never add any again.

 

Now I have 2 emerald mithrax crabs which are awesome. I also have a bunch of hermits (15?) and a bunch of nassarius snails. The nassarius can right themselves and seem quite happy. That's my current clean up crew. one of the things I learned is that clean up crews can control new growth quite well but they cannot really mow down a major problem. Now that there is minimal algae they do a great job of eating what does grow. I have so little algae that I supplement with sea weed to make sure the crabs don't die of starvation.

 

the cleaner shrimp will probably eat anything you offer. I suggest adding a mithrax crab and a few nassarius snails and maybe a few more hermits.

 

Sorry this is so long but i do hope it helps. My last fish died on dec. 4th and I just added the first one back a week ago so patience and water changes are your best friends!

Good luck.

[L8 2 RISE]

are these really necessary? i looked at some and they are pretty expensive.

 

if i ever get my tank running again and add the 1-2 other tanks i have planned ill look into this more.(i want to get a tank for cuttles and a mantis in the same system)

 

I agree with everyone else, how about starting up a dedicated tank thread, and list everything about your tank. How much LR, LS, skimmer type, sump, refugium, lighting, etc. etc. How much research have you done on cuttles? Cephs are one of the least hardy animals you can keep. If you have any copper in the system (which is often used to treat ick), it will be 100% fatal. This is to the extent that there can be less copper in your system than an off the shelf test kit will show, and it will still be fatal. And once coppers in the system, it will not leave. Also, I wasn't exactly sure if you meant cuttles and a mantis in the same tank, or in different tanks, but you WILL NOT be able to keep them in the same tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/vid/bluering/bl...ng_content.html. Granted that's an octopus, but the effect will be the same. Also note that that's a blue ring, one of the most deadly animals in the world. Also, if you plan on having cephs in the system, you will need a SUPER powerful skimmer and very low nitrates that stay stable. Just things to consider, I'm not saying you shouldn't get a ceph at all, just make sure you know what your getting yourself into. I am currently setting up a ceph system to house and breed sepia bandensis cuttles, possibly an octopus, and somewhere down the line, possibly breed flamboyant cuttles. http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22886

 

Any who, shoot me a PM if you decide to go ahead with it and I'll help you out if you want.

 

 

EDIT: forgot to add link

Edited January 19, 2009 by L8 2 RISE

[fosterspike]

I'm wondering how old your tank is? Can you give us some more specifics...tank size, water params, start up and cycle time, how many fish and when they were introduced? I know you just lost all of your fish, but alot of things could have caused the ich outbreak. Stress being a primary concern. If they were added too soon to a tank that wasn't quite ready for fish, or if you added alot at one time, it could cause an ammonia spike.

 

Sorry for your loss!

 

my tank is 90g, it has been running since october or november? i waited at least 3 weeks to add my fish after each introduction but i added two at a time until my mandarin which i added by its self 2-3 weeks ago. my ammonia never went above 1 so i doubt it had anything to do with that. i think it was probably the mandarin that started the out break. but im not sure how it got so bad in one day. only my flame angel and tang even showed signs of ich before and that was about 1 1/2 weeks ago the angel died like a week ago the same day i started treating the tank. the damsels and mandarin showed no signs of ich until the day they died and the tang was starting to get better until then too.

[fosterspike]

I agree with everyone else, how about starting up a dedicated tank thread, and list everything about your tank. How much LR, LS, skimmer type, sump, refugium, lighting, etc. etc. How much research have you done on cuttles? Cephs are one of the least hardy animals you can keep. If you have any copper in the system (which is often used to treat ick), it will be 100% fatal. This is to the extent that there can be less copper in your system than an off the shelf test kit will show, and it will still be fatal. And once coppers in the system, it will not leave. Also, I wasn't exactly sure if you meant cuttles and a mantis in the same tank, or in different tanks, but you WILL NOT be able to keep them in the same tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/vid/bluering/bl...ng_content.html. Granted that's an octopus, but the effect will be the same. Also note that that's a blue ring, one of the most deadly animals in the world. Also, if you plan on having cephs in the system, you will need a SUPER powerful skimmer and very low nitrates that stay stable. Just things to consider, I'm not saying you shouldn't get a ceph at all, just make sure you know what your getting yourself into. I am currently setting up a ceph system to house and breed sepia bandensis cuttles, possibly an octopus, and somewhere down the line, possibly breed flamboyant cuttles. http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22886

 

Any who, shoot me a PM if you decide to go ahead with it and I'll help you out if you want.

 

 

EDIT: forgot to add link

 

i have a tank that i want to set up for a pair of sepia bandensis cuttles and i want to set up another tank for a mantis somewhere along the line. i have a good skimmer but when and if i do this i was going to get another. my nitrates have been low and i havent added any copper to my tank though i have never tested my copper levels either if there is any in my water. i know a little bit and i was planning on talking to you when im ready for tham since you seem to know alot about them.

[fosterspike]

Here's what I did. After fish were gone. I removed what rocks I could and scrubbed them with a toothbrush, rinse and put them back. I set up a 5 gallon bucket of warmed 1.025 sg water and scrubbed them in that. After one or two rocks the water was black. The large rocks that had coral on I left in the tank and scrubbed with a tooth brush. It makes the water a disaster so a heavy mechanical filtration system is necessary to remove he particulates. I just use a 100 micron filter pad in the sump and a hang in the tank "water polisher": just a power head with an attached mechanical filter. I also removed my bioballs and cleaned out a LOT of detritus in the bottom of the sump which I strongly suspects was a major source of algae nutrients. I chose not to use bioballs any more and added the 100 micron filter pad to act as a particulate filter to keep detritus out of the sump.

 

With no fish I did NO feeding except a little sea weed for the crabs maybe 2 or 3 times a week. I cut my lights down to 6 hrs. on only. Just enough to keep the corals alive. Then wait. I also run a very small DIY ATS which I do think helps.

 

After the last scrubbing with no fish to feed, my algae grew back at half the rate it did before. After about 2 weeks, i scrubbed the rock again of any algae that seemed to be taking hold, which was very little. After that the algae just never grew back and I started leaving the lights on longer and longer. and this time the algae never grew back. No one was more surprised than me. I really couldn't believe it.

 

be careful about what cleaners you add. My tank crash started with too many turbo's. I added what was recommended. Bad news. They only eat diatoms I believe. So with so many they started starving and dying. Also they fall over and can't right themselves and die. Apparently they are not intended to live in reef / rock environments and adding turbo's is a death sentence for the snails and a disaster for the tank when they start dying. I will never add any again.

 

Now I have 2 emerald mithrax crabs which are awesome. I also have a bunch of hermits (15?) and a bunch of nassarius snails. The nassarius can right themselves and seem quite happy. That's my current clean up crew. one of the things I learned is that clean up crews can control new growth quite well but they cannot really mow down a major problem. Now that there is minimal algae they do a great job of eating what does grow. I have so little algae that I supplement with sea weed to make sure the crabs don't die of starvation.

 

the cleaner shrimp will probably eat anything you offer. I suggest adding a mithrax crab and a few nassarius snails and maybe a few more hermits.

 

Sorry this is so long but i do hope it helps. My last fish died on dec. 4th and I just added the first one back a week ago so patience and water changes are your best friends!

Good luck.

 

i have three turbos and they have been great, they mow down all the algae and seem to be doing fine. im planning on getting 2 more turbos, 2 emerald crabs, 10-20 astraea snails, 10-20 more hermits, a sea cucumber, and a green lettuce nudibranch. i already turned the lights back to MH-6hrs and Actinics-8hrs. i only have two corals that are pretty much dead due to the algea and they arent attached to any LR so i will start scrubing the LR soon and get that clean up crew.