flowerseller June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 I'd like to have a 20# Oxygen bottle and a few air stone lines in each of my tanks. With a solenoid that opens (instead of shuts off) when the power is off. In a power out situation, the solenoid opens and allow air to flow into the tanks, power comes back, solenoid closes and pumps resume. Anyone got a reason this won't work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 I'd think pure Oxygen would be a little excessive, however I have nothing to prove that. Wouldn't just simple compressed air work just as well. My thinking is that pure Oxygen would dramatically change the PH in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 you talking oxygen or compressed air... if oxygen what about explosive tendancies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basser9 June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 GUYS a simple apc ups 1400 or 1000...the things that you have for a computer....cost under 100....can find for as little as 30.00.....will power a 2000gal hr sureflow maxie mod for30hrs from a 1000....80 hrs froma 1400.....a smaller maxie like a 400 modded will push 1000 hr and run twice as long....you can raise the pump up during a long outage and your tank will look like a protien skimmer.....corals are exposed to 100 degree sun...freshwater rain...all on low tide...the reason they live is they have oxygen...get a sureflow and a ups and you dont have a worry..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 Chip, I'd be somewhat cautious about it being pure oxygen as you'd also be enriching the oxygen in the room where your tank is which, depending on the size and ventillation, could be hazardous. What about just using compressed air and an 80 cu ft or even a 50 cu ft scuba cylinder? You could use enriched Nitrox, but I think air would be just as good for the application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiVEWiRE June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 I would think that adding pure oxygen to your system would get your parameters all out of wack. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't just opening a window change PH from just bringing in fresh air. And like Jason said what about the BOOM factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryL June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 one idea can be just to make an air lift with the battery operated air pumps...make a long L with pvc and put the airstone in the bend in will cause water from on end of the L to travel threw the pipe and come out the other end....kinda like an under gravel without it being under the gravel and it does a good job at moving water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 ...corals are exposed to 100 degree sun...freshwater rain...all on low tide...the reason they live is they have oxygen...get a sureflow and a ups and you dont have a worry..... Only a very small subset of the corals we keep in our tanks are from this environment. Leave any coral from your tank out on your back porch this weekend for 6 hours in a bowl of fresh water and let us know how it goes. re: oxygen bottle, I agree about the hazard factor. The battery driven maxi-mod is probably the cheapest and most effective oxygenator. Can somebody (Dan?) with more electrical experience than me suggest a way to wire a control switch so that it only turns on when the battery is active? Basically a DIY automatic transfer switch for a battery that closes a normally open circuit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 GUYS a simple apc ups 1400 or 1000...the things that you have for a computer....cost under 100....can find for as little as 30.00.....will power a 2000gal hr sureflow maxie mod for30hrs from a 1000....80 hrs froma 1400.....a smaller maxie like a 400 modded will push 1000 hr and run twice as long....you can raise the pump up during a long outage and your tank will look like a protien skimmer.....corals are exposed to 100 degree sun...freshwater rain...all on low tide...the reason they live is they have oxygen...get a sureflow and a ups and you dont have a worry..... Nice to see you have all the answers. However, I HAD a computer ups on my system, much better than the $100 model, and it didn't last for squat! Many people here have different budgets and different situations so please don't post like we're all idiots for not doing it your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txaggies07 June 8, 2008 Share June 8, 2008 Someone makes a battery operated thing for this exact purpose. I actually just used the thing we call google to get a link for yall. http://www.aquariumguys.com/silentairpump.html There are places that have it in stock...this is just the first one I found with a good description. It got me through this outage. My one loss happened before I was able to get my hands on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimchi Corals June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 Chip, I would avoid the 100% oxygen. That is just asking for trouble. Not only is pure oxygen extremely flammable it is also toxic to all living organisms. Compressed air should adequately oxygenate the tank. Also, I recommend Johnny's, BRK, suggestion of a TrippLite battery inverter/converter. With just one marine deep cycle battery you can run power heads for at least 24 hours, it depends on the watts consumed by your equipment. John Yauger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryL June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 Chip, I would avoid the 100% oxygen. That is just asking for trouble. Not only is pure oxygen extremely flammable it is also toxic to all living organisms. Compressed air should adequately oxygenate the tank. Also, I recommend Johnny's, BRK, suggestion of a TrippLite battery inverter/converter. With just one marine deep cycle battery you can run power heads for at least 24 hours, it depends on the watts consumed by your equipment. John Yauger agree the atmosphere is only about 20% (+/-1) oxygen...too much more and too much less is harmfull to all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 I, for one, don't necessarily see the harm in adding pure oxygen to the water as long as it's in small doses (e.g. one airstone for the tank). Isn't that what fish stores add to the bags that we get fish in? I know that it's not pure oxygen being bubbled through the water, but we're talking about more or less the same exact thing given the tank volume and the fact that the oxygen is being bubbled off and so will dissipate once it hits the water and air. That said, I think that circulation is much more important than oxygen in this case. None of us bubble oxygen into our systems and for skimmerless/sumpless systems, the only gas exchange is through surface agitation and they do just fine. As far as wiring an electronic solenoid to a bottle of pure oxygen, though... I wouldn't take that chance. I agree that compressed air is also a good option and you might even want to get your own compressor to protect against this type of thing. You could buy a big compressor tank and then use the solenoid to power your own air lifts. If the compressor runs out of air, simply hook it up to your car to pump it up again. The only worry that I would have is that my compressor says that it's hazardous to run in enclosed spaces without adequate ventilation due to the potential for CO (carbon monoxide). I don't know if that's from the pump or from the compressed air itself. My feeling is that it's not in the compressed air, but I'm far from an expert on this. Also, for the price of buying a tank to fill with compressed air, you might as well get your own air compressor. Hmmm... I wonder if one of those air compressors for a car would be a better solution on the car battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 (edited) IMO O2 is unneeded. The goal for the gas isn't to actually oxygenate but to create water circulation which allows oxygenation on the surface. The O2 isn't going to add much to this process for the 5 seconds it is in contact with the water before it bubbles to the surface. Explosiveness isn't so much of an issue assuming you aren't doing the filling yourself. Getting the O2 is a pain because it's more expensive than air and depending on where you get it, they may pull the "medicinal requirement" clause where they want a doctor's prescription for the O2. Robert's used to ask me for that whenever I got O2 for mixed gas diving although they don't any more so maybe they figured out that was paranoia or just something for medical grade (the kind people breathe) O2. Like I said in the beginning, I doubt the minor benefit from O2 is worth the hassle. As far as using UPS, basser's numbers are great from a theoretical standpoint. However, those UPS batteries degrade over time. I went through 7 UPS' on my tank in the 20 hours I lost power this week. None of them powered a Maxi-jet 1200 for more than 45 minutes. One lasted 5 minutes. If you're going to keep the UPS charged (plugged in) it will degrade so by the time you actually need it, it may not last anywhere near as long as the numbers predict. At least that's my opinion. Guess it's time to bite the bullet and spring for that whole house standby generator... Edited June 9, 2008 by DaveS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 If you're going to keep the UPS charged (plugged in) it will degrade so by the time you actually need it, it may not last anywhere near as long as the numbers predict. At least that's my opinion. You are absolutely correct. The batteries will degrade over time as you have noted. Second, computer UPS are not actually designed to provide continuous power for extended periods of time. They are intended to keep the computer powered long enough for you to save your work and gracefully shut them down. Third (and the kicker for me), the UPS batteries themselves are toxic to the environment and must be carefully shipped and recycled or disposed of--an expensive process. I recently went through a very painful process of recalling hundreds of computer UPS from military communications nodes in over a dozen countries. Now I will only allow installation of communications gear in facilities that have backup generators and large, industrial UPS. No more mini-UPS for any of my equipment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRehman June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 A word of caution with using generic compressors and attached tanks. Some compressors can throw out a little bit of oil with the air. This oil gets into the compressed air tank which then gets into the aquarium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryL June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 A word of caution with using generic compressors and attached tanks. Some compressors can throw out a little bit of oil with the air. This oil gets into the compressed air tank which then gets into the aquarium. i agree...at work they install auto water bleed offs that get rid of the condensation(or you can manually bleed) that is a natural process of the compressed air.. if you look at the water that comes out, it is mixed with compressor oil. there are still filters and separators you can install inline on your air hose, but it still may not work completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller7 June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 I'd like to have a 20# Oxygen bottle and a few air stone lines in each of my tanks. With a solenoid that opens (instead of shuts off) when the power is off. In a power out situation, the solenoid opens and allow air to flow into the tanks, power comes back, solenoid closes and pumps resume. Anyone got a reason this won't work? It will work, but it is not going to last as long as you would hope. As pressure in the tank drops, flow will decrease. You'll need a proper regulator system to increase efficiency. You'll need much larger bottles at very high pressure to run hours on multiple feeds. Normally closed solenoids are available from AquaticEco: http://www.aquaticeco.com/ fwiw: After running the numbers a few years back, it was cheaper and more effective to buy 6 battery operated backup pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeltwayBandit June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 Ok folks. Its time for us to look into the wayback machine a bit here. Sometimes we get all carried away with our fancy gadgets and forget some of the old school tricks of the trade. So you have a power outage. You need 2 things for life support, air and circulation. Why not go with an old school air lift tube. You know, like the one you used to run that undergravel filter on your guppy tank when you were a kid. The physics still work. You get circulation and aireation at the same time. Here is a brief explanation, you bubble air at the bottom of the tube, the rising bubbles create a low pressure area at the bottom of the tube and literally pull water up with them. You bring water from the bottom of the tank up to the top, thus turning over the water in the tank and aerating it at the same time. For those of you who don't know what a lift tube is, I created a simple sketch in Paint (keeping with the old school theme). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbh June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 (edited) Nice to see you have all the answers. However, I HAD a computer ups on my system, much better than the $100 model, and it didn't last for squat! Many people here have different budgets and different situations so please don't post like we're all idiots for not doing it your way. Mine works great (but unfortunately mine was 2x the price at my local LFS and I HAD to buy it because we were looking at 3 days without power)! It worked for those 3 days on 1 set of D batteries. Granted I'm not as heavily stocked but I did alternate between having 2 of those in my SW tank and then 1 each in my FW and SW. I'd be interested in getting 1-2 more if anyone decides to do a group buy. Thanks for the sketch. never knew that and next time I will try the tube idea. It should really add to the flow since my pump is pretty strong. Thanks for posting! Edited June 9, 2008 by hbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeltwayBandit June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 After Isabel, I ran my 120 on life support with a 300w inverter and my pickup truck. I kept the tank running, and I could recharge the battery by starting the truck. I killed the battery in my truck, but saved the tank. (Fortunately the truck was still under warranty and the dealer replaced the battery at no cost. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 yeah old school is cool for some but just like the Government "If it makes sense don't do it".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller7 June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 UPS fwiw: My main back up system is data center class, APC MX3000XR on a 30amp circuit. Not something you see every day in a home. This system will run the basics for 24hrs, but it is not an efficient use of funds unless you are using it to front home servers, electronics, etc as well. If you are in an extended outage, get the battery powered air pumps and stock up on batteries. Biggest issues with the air pumps in permanent installation: testing and making sure the airlines/stones are not clogged with debris when you need them. If you need more then the air pumps, generator is really the only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0eN June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 After Isabel, I ran my 120 on life support with a 300w inverter and my pickup truck. I kept the tank running, and I could recharge the battery by starting the truck. I killed the battery in my truck, but saved the tank. (Fortunately the truck was still under warranty and the dealer replaced the battery at no cost. ) That's a good one! Now how much gas did you burn? --Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeltwayBandit June 9, 2008 Share June 9, 2008 That's a good one! Now how much gas did you burn? --Rob Even at the current prices, MUCH less than the value of my critters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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