lanman May 13, 2008 Share May 13, 2008 Sunday night, I experienced torrential downpours, leading to a light flooding of my basement. It was under control by the time I went to bed, but I woke up at 4:00 AM Monday to find the power off. The power was not restored until 7:30 that evening. I ran an extension cord over to my neighbor's house (on a different power company - just lucky that way), so I would have electricity to run my sump pump. I also used this electricity to run the very basics for my three fish tanks in the basement. The 24-gallon nano upstairs did not get anything but a battery-powered bubbler. For the 240-gallon tank, I connected the main pumps and two heaters. At the time I connected the heaters, the temperature was 73.5 per my coralife thermometer. It slowly dropped to 72.9, at which time I connected a third heater. All 350-watt heaters, I believe. The ambient temperature in the house was 62 degrees. With all three heaters connected, the temperature slowly rose back up to about 74 degrees by evening. After the power came back on, and temperatures in the tank rose to normal - the only damage seemed to be that three of my fish had jumped into the overflow. Maybe because they aren't used to REALLY dark. One of them (the gold-headed sleeper goby) was on his 5th trip into the overflow. An old hand. A couple of millipora type corals had a little bit of sliming going on, but it rapidly cleared up. The 58-gallon tank got just water movement from a Koralia-4 powerhead, and one heater (150W, I believe). Temperature was 73.8 when I connected it, and it slowly rose to 76 through the day. Nothing appeared to be stressed in that tank after it was over. The 33-gallon tank got its regular circulation pump and a single heater. It started at 73.0, and rose slowly to about 75 during the day. No apparent damage to anything EXCEPT one of the blue xenia frags is looking very sad. The 24-gallon nano doesn't have much in it... I'm in the process of slowly tearing it down to rebuild it with different fish, corals and rocks. The temperature in the 24-gallon tank got down as low as 63 degrees. The ricordia fiji's looked terrible. Flaccid, laying over on their sides. The glove polyps were all flaccid and translucent. The 3-lined damsel was not to be seen hiding in the rocks in back. The few mushrooms - one of them puckered up to a dot, and the other one was laying down on the job. The few aiptasia - didn't seem bothered at all. Once the heat and lights came back on, and the tank approached normal ... it appears that the only thing that died is the green hair algae. The softies puffed back up, the damsel came out to eat. Hermit crabs are fine. Snails are fine. All in all - I am quite surprised at the resilience of the livestock we keep in regards to cold temperatures! bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almon May 13, 2008 Share May 13, 2008 That's great news. Is it possible that the livestock in our tanks endure more stress and become stronger for it? What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilary May 13, 2008 Share May 13, 2008 Wow Bob, glad to hear everything's ok despite the all-day outage! I guess I really ought to start making contingency plans for the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal May 14, 2008 Share May 14, 2008 I thought you bought a generator Bob? Give me a call next time you lose power and you can borrow my generator--as long as I still have power of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st9z May 14, 2008 Share May 14, 2008 it appears that the only thing that died is the green hair algae Oh no not the GHA that is the most valueable thing in the tank!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRehman May 14, 2008 Share May 14, 2008 Bob, That's great news! Congratulations on successfully crossing the power outage hurdle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman May 14, 2008 Author Share May 14, 2008 I thought you bought a generator Bob? Give me a call next time you lose power and you can borrow my generator--as long as I still have power of course! I have a generator... at 4:00 AM in a rainstorm, it was easier to throw an extension cord to the neighbor. I gave the generator a couple of cranks, and it didn't start right up - so I got smart. Assuming BRK ever gets my 'battery backup' system in - the next step in my plan is to get a better generator - one with electric start, so I can house it in a 'doghouse' to keep it dry even when running. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grav May 14, 2008 Share May 14, 2008 Bob, Glad to hear the tanks were okay, sorry to hear about the flood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami May 14, 2008 Share May 14, 2008 Glad you and the tanks weathered the storm well, Bob. I wonder sometimes if the temperature decline in a tank could be stemmed with an insulation blanket (like one of those water heater blankets) around the tank and covers over the top to stave off evaporative cooling. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman May 14, 2008 Author Share May 14, 2008 Glad you and the tanks weathered the storm well, Bob. I wonder sometimes if the temperature decline in a tank could be stemmed with an insulation blanket (like one of those water heater blankets) around the tank and covers over the top to stave off evaporative cooling. Thoughts? I'm sure it would help. My surprise was that with a 62 degree ambient, my 240-gallon tank's temperature dropped about a degree per hour without heat. I think even 3 350-watt heaters wouldn't be enough if the room temperature dropped into the 40's in the middle of winter. I'd need Dandy's heater and a generator just for that. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami May 14, 2008 Share May 14, 2008 (edited) Bob, I'm not a thermo guy but here's some quick math based upon 300 gallons (1135 liters) of pure water losing 1 degree F (0.556 degrees C) over 1 hour (3600 seconds): 300 gallons = 1135 liters = 1,135,000 cc Approx. heat loss in calories = 0.556 * 1,135,000 = 631,060 cal, in Joules = 2.64 MJ 2.64 MJ / 3600 seconds = ~733 Watts It's not surprising that you needed a 3rd heater. I also took a quick cut using Newton's law of cooling and a loss of 1 degree F from your tank at 80F with an ambient of 62F over one hour. The equation is T = 62 + 18*exp(-t/1050 minutes) where t is given in minutes. Plug in 60 for t, and you get 79 out for T, which is the tank temp after 1 hour (per your description). Now, let's drop the ambient temperature to 45 to model a wintertime power outage and the equation becomes T = 45 + 35*exp(-t/1050 minute). After 60 minutes, your expected tank temperature is 78 degrees - a 2 degree drop! Twice as much as you saw this time around. (Not at all surprising since the delta-T is about twice as large.) Presumably, then, you'll need to offset this heat loss with upwards of 1400 Watts of heating if you can't contain the heat better in these situations! You said that you had your main pumps powered on the 240. Do you think that you lost extra heat through dissipation in the sump plumbing? Again, I'm not a thermo guy and would welcome somebody chiming in. Edited May 14, 2008 by Origami2547 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv May 15, 2008 Share May 15, 2008 I have a generator... at 4:00 AM in a rainstorm, it was easier to throw an extension cord to the neighbor. I gave the generator a couple of cranks, and it didn't start right up - so I got smart. Assuming BRK ever gets my 'battery backup' system in - the next step in my plan is to get a better generator - one with electric start, so I can house it in a 'doghouse' to keep it dry even when running. bob your battery back up is in, (yes I am in Hawaii......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman May 15, 2008 Author Share May 15, 2008 Bob, I'm not a thermo guy but here's some quick math based upon 300 gallons (1135 liters) of pure water losing 1 degree F (0.556 degrees C) over 1 hour (3600 seconds): 300 gallons = 1135 liters = 1,135,000 cc Approx. heat loss in calories = 0.556 * 1,135,000 = 631,060 cal, in Joules = 2.64 MJ 2.64 MJ / 3600 seconds = ~733 Watts It's not surprising that you needed a 3rd heater. I also took a quick cut using Newton's law of cooling and a loss of 1 degree F from your tank at 80F with an ambient of 62F over one hour. The equation is T = 62 + 18*exp(-t/1050 minutes) where t is given in minutes. Plug in 60 for t, and you get 79 out for T, which is the tank temp after 1 hour (per your description). Now, let's drop the ambient temperature to 45 to model a wintertime power outage and the equation becomes T = 45 + 35*exp(-t/1050 minute). After 60 minutes, your expected tank temperature is 78 degrees - a 2 degree drop! Twice as much as you saw this time around. (Not at all surprising since the delta-T is about twice as large.) Presumably, then, you'll need to offset this heat loss with upwards of 1400 Watts of heating if you can't contain the heat better in these situations! You said that you had your main pumps powered on the 240. Do you think that you lost extra heat through dissipation in the sump plumbing? Again, I'm not a thermo guy and would welcome somebody chiming in. That makes about an extra 50 gallons of water to heat. In the 58, when I got power back, and turned the pump on - the temperature dropped several degrees. The sump was COLD. Of course by then, ambient temperature was rising rapidly toward 70-72, and the lights were on, and all the powerheads generating a little heat, etc... bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami May 15, 2008 Share May 15, 2008 (edited) Yeah, I guess that's right. If your heaters are in the sump, you have to run it that way if the failover was automatic. If not, you could stop the flow, but then you'd need to make sure that, when the power came back on, you brought the sump back up to temperature because it's probably lost even more heat than the display since it's probably disadvantaged in terms of volume to surface area ratio, which I suspect plays into the rate of cooling. Anyway, it looks like the heating problem would be substantially more challenging during a wintertime power outage. It would appear that the three (350W) heaters wouldn't cut it if the ambient (air) temp fell to 42 degrees, even if you did have a backup generator running to power the tank, because you'd be losing more heat than you were putting in. Edited May 15, 2008 by Origami2547 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman May 15, 2008 Author Share May 15, 2008 Yeah, I guess that's right. If your heaters are in the sump, you have to run it that way if the failover was automatic. If not, you could stop the flow, but then you'd need to make sure that, when the power came back on, you brought the sump back up to temperature because it's probably lost even more heat than the display since it's probably disadvantaged in terms of volume to surface area ratio, which I suspect plays into the rate of cooling. Anyway, it looks like the heating problem would be substantially more challenging during a wintertime power outage. It would appear that the three (350W) heaters wouldn't cut it if the ambient (air) temp fell to 42 degrees, even if you did have a backup generator running to power the tank, because you'd be losing more heat than you were putting in. I had started a fire in the fireplace (same room as the tanks) against the possibility the power would be out all night. It doesn't heat a LOT - but it keeps the room from getting too cold. Once I have a better generator, I'll just hook up a space heater or two. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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