copps

No worries... I would worry about things that are under your control... like keeping your GF healthy, fat and happy... then let his color fall where it will.

My apologies for the tardy reply, but the good news is you do not have a flagfin angel... you at the very least have a flagfin/ goldflake hybrid but I'd say there's a greater than 98% chance your fish is a full goldflake... and 100% not a full flagfin... the biggest give away is the black in the dorsal fin of your fish... flagfins lose their false eye spot when VERY small... in the one inch range... you'll almost never see a juvenile flagfin in the trade sold that still has the false eye spot... your fish showing the black again in the dorsal fin is a dead giveaway that it has goldflake blood... Now, in regards to goldflake/ flagfin hybrids, they do exist. I have one of the few that can be said is a 100% hybrid, as it was bred in captivity by Wen Peng Su at Bali Aquarich... I'll show a pic I just took tonight below... I travel to Hawaii for work quite a bit, and when I'm there I have a very good friend that owned a wholesaler on Oahu, and also owns the retail company Pacific Island Aquatics. While they are now in Oregon, they would bring in dozens of goldflakes a week from the freighter that flew in from Christmas Island... along with HUNDREDS of flame angels at a time, a few black tangs, and many other cool fish... after seeing hundreds of these through the years there this is why many people suspect hybridization between the two species... while I think it happens, it is much more rare than people would believe for these reasons... 1. Goldflake angels have crazy variation... not even regional variation (which does exist in the species)... but even from the same location... my buddy took this photo from one of the shipments showing two different goldflakes... 2. As juveniles both species are very similar... the species diverge as they grow... there are ways to tell apart juveniles of each species but it's not nearly as apparent as with adults. This is common with many closely related angelfish species... as adults you can tell from across the room but as juveniles many species look similar. So, a fish like yours in the 3" range often causes confusion and thoughts of hybridization... because many people are just basing their opinion on whether the fish is gold or yellow... juvenile goldfflakes are all yellow! Another example is in regals angels... Indian Ocean specimens have a yellow belly at adulthood... Pacific specimens have a blue belly... but when small they all have yellow bellies... 3. Yet another thing that can result in misidentification is the tendency for captive fish to delay their transition into adulthood... this happens with many angelfish... much of it is hormone related... but can be many things... all brought on by captivity... so you'll often see even larger goldflakes in captivity hanging onto their juvenile coloration longer... In addition to the dorsal fin I mentioned above on your fish, another subtle giveaway is the anal fin edged in blue... you can see it in your third pic... you don't see that in flagfins... also on the anal fin you can see the black filling in... you can also see the flecking on the body of your fish, which will get more pronounced with age. Grow your fish out and enjoy it... Here's a shot of my flagfin/ goldflake hybrid bred by Bali Aquarich... the black flecks and shading in the dorsal get washed out by the flash... but you can see in the anal fin the black is intermediate between the two species and there is even a little of the blue edging on the anal fin. Again enjoy your fish... things like this make this hobby exciting... and flagfins are also beautiful... I collected my own pair in Guam last year while I was there... unfortunately only one made it back but it lives in my 1300 gallon now and feeds from my fingers... Copps

I literally was showing people my text messages with Rich Ross asking if everything would be suitable for my seven year old after what happened with Mitch last year... but Rich handled it like a true professional... my kids had no idea and the adults were laughing their butts off... for those that don't know in addition to being given MASNA Aquarist of the Year last year (the biggest award in the hobby), Rich was a professional comedian for years and opened up for the Smothers Brothers... it was an easy choice when I chose him as emcee... and Bruce Carlson our banquet speaker is an icon in the hobby to reef nerds... but the reason I chose him for the banquet is because even my wife loves him and his stories, and she could care less about fish! My daughter had no idea (nor did I) that she was going to get called on stage by Rich... or Walt Smith! What a great surprise and we'll have those memories forever. Copps

Yes Tom, I too wiped away tears when you were up there! It really is incredible the amount of planning that goes into these. And Tricia you are correct... my daughter will never pop another balloon again! I will say that when Tom, Craig, Doug and I sat down three years ago to discuss this I could not have imagined the success that everyone pulled off. I've spoken at four MACNAs and been to many more through the years... in my own opinion this was the best, and in the opinion of so many other people. I cannot tell you the number of times people stopped me and told me how great this MACNA was. I will also say that I've travelled around the country and spoken to many reef clubs in almost 25 different states for years now. We have the best run club in the business! The core group behind us is incredible, and the efforts we got from all of our volunteers was equally incredible. People who only go to our club meetings may take it for granted, but I have plenty of perspective and WAMAS really is amazing. MACNA has grown to become a HUGE conference technically run by amateurs... but from the looks of it and the efforts put in by our volunteers you couldn't tell. Seriously... think of all of the planning that goes into a wedding that goes for a few hours... then make that a multiple day conference with THOUSANDS of people from around the world. Unfortunately I only got to the event floor for literally 20 minutes as I was running around the whole conference and introducing every speaker on the hour! Next year in San Diego will be relaxing! THANK YOU ALL! I also found out that we are probably the largest club in the country, with over 800 paid members. Simply put... WAMAS rocks! As we all exhale, including myself, my speaker planning duties for next month will be rather light... as I'll be giving the presentation... no travel arrangements or airport runs, or anything else that goes on with bringing in speakers. I've been getting a lot of requests from people about my talk, so I'll give it at next month's meeting and go into even more detail on my system. One of my favorite sayings in the hobby is "the only relaxing reef tanks are other people's"... and that saying can be modified to fit in with Macna... "the only relaxing MACNAs are other club's"! Great job WAMAS! We'll start meeting next week to plan MACNA 2025... Copps

Yup I'll be speaking... and show a video, and a bunch of photos of course... and very funny Tricia! Anyone who was at the MACNA banquet will get a chuckle out of that one.

Getting the drawings on this soon... I spoke at Reef Stock a few weeks ago and Joe Yaiullo of Atlantis convinced me to go 36" deep instead of 30" deep... so the tank will be 96" x 70" x 36"... so it's now about 1050 gallons... once I get the drawings finalized I'll have the exact count... say a prayer for me! Our home builder is adding 17 dedicated 20 amp circuits for this tank and the others... including my many quarantine setups... overkill but if I have too many circuits in the fish space that will not be a bad problem. Anyway, we have many nice systems in this club... I travel around and see many clubs... WAMAS is at the top! Graham your tank is beautiful and you my friend can grow some coral! I've been bugged about an updated FTS, so here it is... you cannot even see rock anymore... I need a bigger tank. Again for those asking about info on this system refer here... http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/76-tank-of-the-month Thanks for all the kind words fellow WAMAS members. I'll see you all this weekend... we have TWO rockin' speakers. Copps

These are the first peppermints to go to market in over a decade... For those interested I spent a week in Japan with Koji two months ago diving and checking out tanks... I have many more photos to post, but here is the thread to check out... I can guarantee one (at least) of those peppermints is going into the doctor's office I show in the thread... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2253772 John

Hey guys... 100% NOT a vendor... :D I sell frags at meetings and that's it... and as my wife could attest to I do not come close to making a profit... I have 3500 watts of light alone in my house over my systems, and I sell from my meager 20 long at meetings two to four times a year... As many of you know I am our "speaker coordinator" which is a fun job for me with the club, but the real work is done by many of the great people in this club, including the two that posted above me (Tom and Craig). My apologies for not getting recent tank shots... things have been crazy recently as my wife and I have just signed a contract on a new pre-construction home that will be ready this summer... making all of the decisions on the home alone would be time consuming, but I'm already in talks with the manufacturer of my dream reef tank, in addition to working with the builder on modifying the ground level to accommodate such a massive tank. For those looking for some pics and info on my current system you can view here... http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/76-tank-of-the-month Also, I currently have acclimation boxes with fish I collected in Guam that are inhibiting taking photos... you could check this thread out from a recent trip... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2253772 Thanks, John

Thanks so much guys... it's really my pleasure... and a win-win... thanks for helping me finance the 900! Coooooooooooooooooooo-stanza! Copps

Christine rocks! We spoke together at the Next Wave Conference earlier this year in Dallas... very cool, intelligent and informative! Copps

Yes. Simple economics 101... supply... demand... Crazy is a relative term... tell any of your non reefer friends what you've spent in this hobby and we'd all be called crazy... Copps

I did not... I posted this in a thread on RC... "Hey guys, I did not get this fish... although I know who did. At MACNA I let Kevin know of an interested serious buyer, and it worked out... We had this discussion at the banquet, just before Kevin received the highest honor in this industry... one given to just one person each year... Kevin Kohen was very deserving. Everyone has nothing but great things to say about Live Aquaria, but few people realize that Kevin is the driving force and brains behind this success... I know a lot of people in this industry... some I respect much and some less... Kevin is right at the top of the list... and on top of that a genuinely nice person... he deserves some serious props!!! As I said in another thread this fish was sold in the states for a relative bargain... me, Koji, and Kevin were sitting and talking at MACNA when Kevin nearly fell off of his chair after finding out what Koji sold two narcosis for... 18K a piece. These specimens were indeed collected in "French Polynesia" by Rufus Kimura. While they were only recently officially documented there it's been known for some time... I was at the Bishop Museum in Hawaii in 2007 when Rich Pyle showed me an email and photo taken by a rebreather diver in Rangiroa (not to be confused with Rarotonga... far away!) at something like 300 or 400 feet asking about a fish... it was Centropyge narcosis!!! The specimen the DD got was collected at Rarotonga this past July in the Cooks by the same ichthyologist on the same reef as the holotype specimen... 23 years later!! Rich Pyle was at Rarotonga on a joint project between the University of Hawaii and Bishop Museum to survey the deep reefs in more detail than they had previously... the narcosis he collected and gave to Chip at his station there... Chip then sent it to Quality Marine and then it ended up at the DD... no surprise there! Here's a video their group took... the first ever to show Centropyge boylei and C. narcosis in their natural habitat together... Copps "

Wicked! I spoke for FMAS last year again and they told me they were pushing hard to get an upcoming MACNA. That rocks! See everyone in Dallas that's going. John

Hey Chip, I'm good for at least five... and perhaps 10. John

I can breakdown the Diver's Den/ "regular Live Aquaria" difference in terms that their employees cannot. Are both good sources for livestock? Yes. Are there substantial differences in the two? Yes. There is sort of a secret that's not so much a secret in our industry... The livestock business is a tough one... and so MANY wholesalers have either a retail business name or an affiliation with a retail business to drop ship their livestock. Most all of the big guns for livestock are like this... Blue Zoo Aquatics... Live Aquaria... Pacific Island Aquatics... when you order from them the fish are coming from the same facility as a wholesale facility with a different name. Again this is nothing novel... but the employees will never mention it because the retail ends of the wholesale side are direct competitors with the retail shops that order wholesale from them. Drs. Foster and Smith... that HUGE company that is one of the largest pet supply companies in the world... is located in Rhinelander, Wisconsin... on the same property as all of Live Aquaria's staff and all of the livestock seen in the Diver's Den. The Diver's Den has GREAT sources for livestock and orders from many wholesalers to get the wide variety of livestock they have... I've seen many facilities and this is by far the best. I know Kevin Kohen, the Director, well and on top of being a great person he is extremely knowledgeable. I know many people in this industry and I have more respect for Kevin than most all. He knows his stuff and much of what we like about Live Aquaria we owe to him... period. Now, when you order livestock from Live Aquaria that is not in the Diver's Den... not WYSIWYG, it comes from their "California facility". Well, there California facility is not Live Aquaria's at all, but the wholesaler Quality Marine in Los Angeles. When you order from them your order is drop shipped from that facility... the same stock and facility when a retail shop orders from Quality Marine. This may sound bad, but what Live Aquaria is to the online RETAIL world, Quality Marine is to the wholesale world. Right by the LAX airport on 104th street there is a line of wholesalers and I've visited most of them. Quality Marine is the gold standard by far... The only thing people can argue is their pricing, but they get those prices for a reason. Many wholesalers are a MESS... and abomination... many are just okay... Quality Marine ROCKS! I won't go into the details but they are the gold standard again... So, the BEST option by far ONLINE (support our great local businesses too!) is ordering from Live Aquaria's Diver's Den... The system for taking in livestock they have is second to none. The next best option is ordering from the "California facility", which results in drop shipping from the best of the wholesalers. I will also add that I travel regularly to Hawaii and for years have known and had beers with the owner of Pacific Island Aquatics, long before he had that business and was just wholesaling. So... back to your fish... in regards to powerheads for QT I love these... http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/T6015.html Do you notice any symptoms other than rapid breathing? Any cloudy eyes or damaged fins? A week of not eating is nothing to worry about yet. Force feeding as you did just does not work in my opinion. There are ways to do it correctly but it is not easy and requires lots of practice. For now keep good water conditions with the fish calm... the nice thing about those powerheads is that they keep the food suspended and entice planktivores well like Genicanthus. Do not worry about Lymphocystis... it will go away with good conditions and time... In regards to when you saw the ick I WOULD NOT have treated with formalin... copper treatment will take care of the ick 100%... and formalin is harsh... but again these treatments all have a learning curve and require MANY judgement calls... ideally learned with more forgiving species and genera as addressed above. I prefer using Cupramine, and ease into to the full dose over the course of days starting with about 1/4 the dose on the first day. This results in less inhibition of a feeding response and is generally better in my experience... with a light case of ick up front you have time to ramp the dose up... the issue with these treatments is that you may have a disease free fish but it won't matter because it never feeds again and dies... so again the balancing act and judgement calls. Copps

Hi Jan! I received your PM... and figured I'd reply here... Before we get started, I need to address this. Not sure where you received your info, but there are spawning Genicanthus all over the world in captivity, including my house! You perhaps may be referring to spawning and RAISING Genicanthus in captivity, which has been done just once, by the great Karen Brittain in Waikiki... here's an article I wrote on one of her other accomplishments... a BRILLIANT breeder with a blue thumb. Not sure what you meant by the "something else I won't aspire to" comment... one of the pleasures of keeping angelfish in pairs and harems is watching nightly spawning! http://glassbox-design.com/2010/captive-bred-amphiprion-latezonatus/ Back to the topic of your Genicanthus I will address a number of details, but first I need to address some circumstances generally... I read your PM and this thread, and took a quick skim of some of your recent posts in regards to your Genicanthus and quarantine. I applaud you for wanting to learn quarantine and develop proper protocols. Like everything else in this hobby, and in life, there is a learning curve. Developing experience with quarantining is like learning to ride a bike in a way. You could read ten books and have ten people explain to you how to ride a bike, yet the first number of times you do it you are going to fall down. All of us need to "cut our QT teeth" so to speak. One of the big mistakes you are making is that is all too common is that you are cutting your QT teeth with the wrong fish... the equivalent of trying to learn how to ride a bike on a Penny-farthing from the late 1800s (the ones with the large front wheel)! Genicanthus are rather problematic in the first place... the larger the fish the larger the problems, with large males being the worst! You've chosen the worst of the Penny-farthings! I always recommend growing out smaller juvenile or female Genicanthus, and letting them decide down the line who will be the male, but that is not the root of your problems. I always recommend people cut their QT teeth with more forgiving species. The worst thing for ANY new fish, especially problematic ones, is STRESS. The Diver's Den of Live Aquaria is by far the gold standard for national online livestock dealers... especially for fish... I know this industry very well and have seen many of the behind the scenes of these online businesses (including a day in Rhinelander with Kevin Kohen) and I can say that there is not even a close second place when it comes to fish especially. Fish are much harder to do than corals, and many people in the business pass them on like a hot potato. With that said, that does not mean you will get a 100% fully adapted disease free conditioned fish all of the time from the DD. There is no business model that would succeed in providing that. I put my fish through sometimes months of QT to accomplish this. Live Aquaria does however do a darn good job. So, issues like the cut you show on the side and the popped eye will arise, but those are minor and I would not be concerned with them up front. With the above said, I'll address this recent large male watanabei. You mention you got this fish six days ago, and already it's had these stressors... 1. Treated with Prazi- from your PM I could not tell if this was for the melanospilos or watanabei... but I'll say that after placing a new fish in a quiet and stress free QT your first priority is feeding... many medications inhibit feeding, including Prazi, and so I'll only treat prophylactically after a fish is adapted well and feeding. 2. The fish was "in hypo for a few days"- I do not have more details on this other than what you mentioned in your PM, but this is unnecessary stress at a minimum and potentially catastrophic at a max. Again, fish received from the DD will be generally of good health, so there is no need to take such drastic measures up front. Are the DD fish always disease free? Absolutely not, and they don't claim them to be. If they do have a parasite like Cryptocaryon for example is will be very light and take a number of life cycles to get to plague proportions. Are you keeping your QT apart from your main system? Many times people will introduce maladies from their display systems which could be done with just a drop (or less!) or water. 3. A powerhead that was too strong and caused "strange swimming"- Keep in mind that like humans, fish are exposed to maladies all the time, yet many times only succumb to them when stressed. It is WAY TOO COMMON in this hobby for people to blame the maladies themselves rather than the conditions or stress that led the maladies to take root. This can be fish disease, coral predators, or even the reason your angelfish started picking on your corals! 4. Mixing fish in QT- This is something that can be done with experience and I do it often, but mixing multiple Genicanthus, especially Genicanthus MALES, is something I would not do in any QT or even display. Even if you do not see obvious aggression, this adds stress. In addition to potential problems having the two fish together in terms of aggression, you run the problem of having to treat both fish if a problem arises with just one of them. To find other stressors I'd need to be shoulder to shoulder with you for a week or so... everything we do is important in this hobby... give the same hardware and livestock to a thousand different hobbyists and you'll get a thousand different results. But as I said above gain EXPERIENCE with more forgiving fish and aspire to accomplishable and realistic goals for yourself. One other note on Genicanthus... the cooler the system the better with all species... some more than others... some species REQUIRE cool water long term, but all will benefit from it up front. I run my QTs as cool as possible for just about everything now, which will also slow metabolism for fish not feeding and allow them to last longer. Oh, and rather than concentrating on WHAT you are feeding these fish concentrate more on the stressors mentioned above... the issues come not in finding a magic food, but rather making a fish feel comfortable enough to start feeding. Again Jan I applaud your efforts to QT and learn, but know your boundaries and limits... we as aquarists have a moral obligation to every living thing we take in, whether it is a dollar or a thousand. We are all always learning and no one knows it all in this hobby. I regularly run between five and seven QTs and have had a house full of fish for over 25 years since I was a kid and I am still learning. Taking a 7" male watanabei is a challenge to anyone regardless of experience. Now to address the current state of where your watanabei is now... from your PM you said he is breathing heavy and has not eaten, but otherwise looks fine? Six days of not eating is nothing to worry about, especially for a fish that size. The nice thing is that larger fish almost always have more negatives, but one of the positives it the length of time they can go without feeding increases with size as they are able to eat into their fat reserves more. One thing I can say is DO NOT force feed as you did with the past specimen... that does way more harm than good. This is a process that can and has been done successfully, but it involves anesthesia and placing food directly into the gut, not the mouth. What size QT is it in and what else is in there? What is the fish being treated with right now? Are you heating the water? Is there a light over the QT? Hope this is a good start, Copps

You don't need to be an expert to use Latin names... if you find or reference a photo or fish like you did above you can use the Latin name if it is there... entering this into Google will yield better and more honed results than common names. And my wife calls me a lowly reefer all the time!

Exactly why I use Latin names... no confusion!

Yes this is the common name of the latin species name I gave above.

They are not common in the aquarium trade and I have no experience with them... they are very intelligent and voracious feeders with habits similar to hawkfish... I'd imagine they pose the same risks hawkfish do to shrimp... and will feed on anything they can fit in their mouth... other than that it should be a good fish... Share your experience if you do throw it in your reef. Copps

This fish is a sandperch of the genus Parapercus... probably Parapercis schauinslandi but tough to tell... do you know its origin? Copps

What a great meeting! I've spoken for clubs around the nation and I have to say that our group of officers and people working behind the scenes at WAMAS is absolutely top notch. I've seen the very good and the very bad clubs and WAMAS is at the top of the list in all respects! Thanks so much to everyone that makes WAMAS the great club that it is! Copps

No sweat! If you want a ton of pods you'll have to forgo most fish there, including this guy... and many Chaetodon species will prey on anemones if allowed to by clownfish (or the lack thereof)... John

They will be fine in this type of an environment... but be aware that these fish are voracious hunters of all "pods" and so if your idea is to provide refuge to these little animals then you could kiss that off by adding this fish. If your idea is to have a nice display of macroalgaes this fish will not bother most of them. Hope that helps! John

I own over forty angels, with most in reefs, and a number of butterfly species also in reefs... this species is not even worth trying in a reef in my opinion as coral polyps make up part of its natural diet... the only Chaetodon genus butterflies worth trying in my opinion are the more zooplanktivorous members... like Chaetodon kleinii or perhaps C. miliaris... along those lines... John