How to keep hard-to-keep corals like acropora?

[sen5241b]

Been in this hobby years and I've never done particularly well with acropora (although my Birdsnest is currently fine). In the last few years I've been hearing conflicting things on water quality. I've heard reef keepers demonize phosphates and then someone else say that thinking is "old school", that super-low phosphates aren't really crucial. I've reported chronically low alk (approximately 6dkh) and then had people advise me to ignore it and not try to "chase numbers". I've heard stories of healthy SPS tanks with sky-high nitrates. I've even heard that TDS zero water is not an absolute necessity. (I will never agree with that.) I've read the chemistry articles on reefkeeping.com but they really did not address the conflicting things I've heard. My question: if you've had success with acropora and other difficult corals, what did you do with respect to water quality? What did you do that actually worked? Water changes? Dosing? Frequent testing? How perfect does the water need to be? How important is water quality compared to light, flow, coral compatibility, feeding, acclimation. handling, etc? 

Edited December 21, 2016 by sen5241b

[dpassar12]

IMHO in order Alk, flow, water, lights.... I run a Calc reactor so my PH tends to be on the low side 7.9-8.0.. I test my ALK and Mag  2x time a week, I try to keep my ALK between 10-11. Lots of random flow. I don't test Calc, rarely do I test P and N's but when I do they have been always very low. I run carbon mixed with 1.5 cups of  GFO, I change that the first week of every month. I change 5% of my water 1x a month. All of my lights are LEDs.

Define not having any luck that might help us help you...

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

Your basic question is about nutrients I would guess. The thinking now is have some readable nutrients and coral will stay colored easier. You can still run 0's across the board but the key is to have enough nutrient input to keep corals happy and enough export to have no readable nutrients. Really your alk should be in a range related to where your nutrients are stable. And your lights should be the same. Higher light or par for higher nutrients as well as higher alk. Low nutrients it's best to keep all under 8.5 especially with bacteria driven systems. Feed enough and there can be an exception.

[mari.harutunian]

IMHO in order Alk, flow, water, lights.... I run a Calc reactor so my PH tends to be on the low side 7.9-8.0.. I test my ALK and Mag 2x time a week, I try to keep my ALK between 10-11. Lots of random flow. I don't test Calc, rarely do I test P and N's but when I do they have been always very low. I run carbon mixed with 1.5 cups of GFO, I change that the first week of every month. I change 5% of my water 1x a month. All of my lights are LEDs.

 

Define not having any luck that might help us help you...

What kind of LEDs?

 

 

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[dpassar12]

My display (90% SPS) is EcoTech Radion Gen 2s My main SPS frag tank are T247's and I also have some Acro's under black boxes for a test... seam to be doing ok under those as well. My fav light are the t247s 

[mari.harutunian]

My display (90% SPS) is EcoTech Radion Gen 2s My main SPS frag tank are T247's and I also have some Acro's under black boxes for a test... seam to be doing ok under those as well. My fav light are the t247s

I'm looking into the T247s. Are they easily programmed? For a 3' wide tank 16" deep do I need more than one?

 

 

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[dpassar12]

I think you would need 2 for 3 feet,, Easy to program, built in timers. I have 4 on a 8x2   12inches deep

[pizzaguy]

I also run t247 on my 200 deep dimension and its packed to the hilt with sps. Beautiful color. Heavy bioload heavy feeding ton of flow and good skimmer. Works for me. I also run a sulphur reactor because i could never get my nitrates below 60 to 80 now they stay below 5.

[sen5241b]

IMHO in order Alk, flow, water, lights.... I run a Calc reactor so my PH tends to be on the low side 7.9-8.0.. I test my ALK and Mag  2x time a week, I try to keep my ALK between 10-11. Lots of random flow. I don't test Calc, rarely do I test P and N's but when I do they have been always very low. I run carbon mixed with 1.5 cups of  GFO, I change that the first week of every month. I change 5% of my water 1x a month. All of my lights are LEDs.

 

Define not having any luck that might help us help you...

 

Had lots of luck growing Blastos, Lobos and Trumpets. The multiply quite often. Acros, brains and montis have never done well. Chalices an Acans do okay. I run an AI Prime at 65% about 6 inches above surface. Tank is 16 inches deep. Maybe I need to keep alk high like you do. Like I said, alk is always low. 

 

 

Your basic question is about nutrients I would guess. The thinking now is have some readable nutrients and coral will stay colored easier. You can still run 0's across the board but the key is to have enough nutrient input to keep corals happy and enough export to have no readable nutrients. Really your alk should be in a range related to where your nutrients are stable. And your lights should be the same. Higher light or par for higher nutrients as well as higher alk. Low nutrients it's best to keep all under 8.5 especially with bacteria driven systems. Feed enough and there can be an exception.

 

I do not understand. There is a correlation between PAR and nutrients? 

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

Low par and high nutrients do not work well with a lot of acropora. High par and a low bioload that's not being fed often is one reason why people don't say to have 0's on your test kit. Because things pale out very easy and a solid color is hard to get, and even with lower par it can be hard.

[gmerek2]

I couldn't grow SPS until I started chasing numbers. Especially the ALK number. Keep ALK a stable flat line on a graph and things will grow. IMO don't get too caught up in the nutrients and par etc because without steady alk and numbers you have absolutely nothing. Work out those details after stabilizing numbers. A lot of stuff can cause swings: too large of water change, not topping off the tank often enough, not dripping in alk etc etc etc it takes a lot of attention to detail but it's a fun challenge. Just pick wamas hardy pieces. Slimers, torts, staghorns are some fine selections to get confidence up. After stabilizing tank watch their colors that will help you to fine tune the details. After mastering the easier SPS buy the milli, tenuis, etchinata. 6dkh is too low.

[sethsolomon]

Been in this hobby years and I've never done particularly well with acropora (although my Birdsnest is currently fine). In the last few years I've been hearing conflicting things on water quality. I've heard reef keepers demonize phosphates and then someone else say that thinking is "old school", that super-low phosphates aren't really crucial. I've reported chronically low alk (approximately 6dkh) and then had people advise me to ignore it and not try to "chase numbers". I've heard stories of healthy SPS tanks with sky-high nitrates. I've even heard that TDS zero water is not an absolute necessity. (I will never agree with that.) I've read the chemistry articles on reefkeeping.com but they really did not address the conflicting things I've heard. My question: if you've had success with acropora and other difficult corals, what did you do with respect to water quality? What did you do that actually worked? Water changes? Dosing? Frequent testing? How perfect does the water need to be? How important is water quality compared to light, flow, coral compatibility, feeding, acclimation. handling, etc? 

 

 

So far I have pretty good success with SPS.

 

So  what I focus on is keeping my alk stable in the 7.5-8 dkh range, I have a Life reef LR1 calcium reactor ran by masterflex peristaltic pump.  I test about once a week to make sure my alk uptake has not changed and if it did I shift the ph in the ca reactor or up the flow through of the ca reactor.   I dose a couple glugs of acro power about once every 2 weeks.  

 

 Flow is tricky as it all depends on the tank  but I like to shoot for as high as possible without causing a sandstorm and the fish can still swim.

 

And lights, I use 250w 20k radium halides,  2x 46.5" t12 VHO's running UVL 454 bulbs, and reefbrites.

 

 

IMO the most important part of keeping SPS is stable Alk  your alk could be 6 or 11 but as long as its stable you should be fine.

 

Importance chart:  ALK -> Flow -> Lights -> Mag (Keeps your calc and alk in equilibrium) -> Fish  (Feeds the coral and keeps the acros colored up)

[sethsolomon]

 

I do not understand. There is a correlation between PAR and nutrients? 

There is a coralation (See what I did there :P) between alk and nutrients.   So if you have your alk in the 6 and 7 range, your nitrates and phosphates need to be much lower so you don't stunt growth. VS  if you keep your alk in the 11-12 range, you need to keep your nitrates and phosphates much higher so the symbiotic algae in coral can keep up and protect the acro.  A lot of time you see acros with "Burnt tips".  this occures because the algae can't keep up with the coral growth and eventually if the algae gets further and further away from the tips, they will die halting growth.

 

Example of burnt tips:

 

This user is skirting the line of maximizing growth while trying to keep the nutrients lower. Causing pastel colors on the growth tips.

 

 

This is what happens when the acro does not get enough nutrients when growing quickly

Edited December 22, 2016 by sethsolomon

[sethsolomon]

Had lots of luck growing Blastos, Lobos and Trumpets. The multiply quite often. Acros, brains and montis have never done well. Chalices an Acans do okay. I run an AI Prime at 65% about 6 inches above surface. Tank is 16 inches deep. Maybe I need to keep alk high like you do. Like I said, alk is always low.

 

 

I bet if you kept the aklk in the 8-9 range you would do much better.  6 alk would be good for tanks running lots of GFO and a nitrate reactor.  8-9 is good for a mixed reef so you keep your LPS and SPS happy.

[sen5241b]

Thanks everyone. This information has really been useful. 3 questions:

 

Clearly, I have underestimate the importance of alk. I have consistently very low nutrients so I am going to shoot for a stable alk of 8dkh, Too high?

 

For years, I have been doing 50% water changes every 3 or 4 months. I spike the make up water with high cal and then the cal in tank very slowly falls over the course of 3 or 4 months until it is sub par like 350ppm then I do another change. I am guessing this lack of stable cal can cause problems with SPS. No?

 

Also, HOW do you maintain stable alk? Small, consistent water changes? Dosing alk? 

[sethsolomon]

Clearly, I have underestimate the importance of alk. I have consistently very low nutrients so I am going to shoot for a stable alk of 8dkh, Too high?

 

This would be perfect.

 

For years, I have been doing 50% water changes every 3 or 4 months. I spike the make up water with high cal and then the cal in tank very slowly falls over the course of 3 or 4 months until it is sub par like 350ppm then I do another change. I am guessing this lack of stable cal can cause problems with SPS. No?

 

This is why you wont have success with acros.  This is a quick way to alk shock and RTN an acro.  They need to have alk and calcium stable at the same level for them to do well.

 

Also, HOW do you maintain stable alk? Small, consistent water changes? Dosing alk? 

 

 

 

There are 4 main ways to keep your levels constant:

1. small constant water changes
2. dosing pumps
3. calcium reactor
4. kawlk dosing in ATO

 

 

As for the chemistry aspect,  there are 3 main nutrients, Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium.  

 

Calcium is basically the building blocks of the coral

 

Alkalinity  is basically mortar that bind the calcium together

 

and Magnesium is basically the thing keeping The calcium "Bricks" and Alkalinity "Mortar"  in proper ratios.

 

If the magnesium gets low the alkalinity can start dropping faster than the calcium is getting used and it causes an imbalance in levels.

 

 

 

 

So dosing pumps you essentially have to test each level and adjust each dosing pump to match the needs of your tank.

 

Kalkwasser is ionically balanced in the same ratios as coral so you just have to add the amount your tank uses in combination with how much your tank evaporates to dose you tank.  I have never dosed this long term so I don't have any specific instructions on this.

 

Calcium reactors basically melt down old coral skeleton via ph and slowly drip the nutrients back into the tank.  This also can add some trace elements back into the tank as well based on what media you use.  And you can also add magnesium media to dose magnesium in combination if your demand is high enough.

 

 

And small constant water changes is the best way for nanos without breaking the bank with expensive equipment but also the least stable.  

[sethsolomon]

Here is Randy's explination of the chemistry of the main 3 nutrients:  http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/ 

[malacoda]

@SethSolomon - thank you very much for taking the time to not only provide such a detailed yet down-to-earth explanation, but also for hunting down and including the pics. Very, very helpful and informative for those of just starting to stick our toes into the acro-keeping world.

 

And thank you sen5241b for posting the question!

[sethsolomon]

@SethSolomon - thank you very much for taking the time to not only provide such a detailed yet down-to-earth explanation, but also for hunting down and including the pics. Very, very helpful and informative for those of just starting to stick our toes into the acro-keeping world.

 

And thank you sen5241b for posting the question!

Your welcome. Yah that's what the forums are for . I was kinda hoping Bruce York or John Copps would post in here so we can get some other opinions since this hobby is all driven by peoples experiences and happenings.

 

But the main thing to take away from my post is there is never just 1 thing needed to succeed with sps. It is a combination of things.

 

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[GraffitiSpotCorals]

Well said Seth, thanks for taking up where I left off. I didn't really word it right either, I was working. Copps still posts here?

[AlanM]

Once your alk and Ca are in the right place my experience is that it's all about doing the same thing every day.  Get into a routine and stick to it.  The corals really like stability.  The alk and Ca number don't matter over a wide range of numbers, as long as they're not changing all around.