arking_mark October 9, 2016 Share October 9, 2016 So the time has come. GSP is taking over my main display rock in a 34gal tank. It is my largest rock with lots of other coral. Since it is also my topmost rock, my plan is to pull out the rock with all the coral, frag whatever GSP can be fragged, and then use a pencil torch to burn the rest of the GSP. Any thoughts on this approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k October 9, 2016 Share October 9, 2016 How about just sell me the Rock and i get you another piece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark October 9, 2016 Author Share October 9, 2016 It's a very large well shaped piece that makes the tank. Your welcome to some gsp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khh27 October 9, 2016 Share October 9, 2016 Sometimes you can peal the mat off. But not always. Sometimes kinda difficult on very porous surfaces Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark October 10, 2016 Author Share October 10, 2016 Yep. I will see what pulls off. Based on failing to razer it up in the tank...not sure I will be successful out of the tank. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b October 10, 2016 Share October 10, 2016 I've used tweezers to pull it off. It came rather easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite October 10, 2016 Share October 10, 2016 Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandJ October 10, 2016 Share October 10, 2016 Sounds like a good plan. Just make sure there are no zoas/palythoas on the rock before burning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark October 10, 2016 Author Share October 10, 2016 There are zoas and palys that will be burned away...need to errasicate the GSP where it started over taking the nicer stuff. Should I be concerned about touching them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruleyii October 10, 2016 Share October 10, 2016 They can release a toxin that is pretty bad. Do a search for paly toxin. Nasty stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark October 10, 2016 Author Share October 10, 2016 Yes. Glasses and 1300 degree torch should be safe against to in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 October 10, 2016 Share October 10, 2016 Rocks can always be replaced - I would go with Rob's offer. If he doesn't have what you're looking for I am sure someone in the club has some that they could trade you. If there are zoas on there, don't take the chance of aerosolizing the palytoxin. Worst case scenario, pull the rock and put it in the dark until the GSP dies and then it becomes brittle and falls away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark October 10, 2016 Author Share October 10, 2016 Didn't think about toxin being aerosolizing the toxin. I would think the flame would destroy it. I can always burn outside with a mask. I will give it some thought. Love my zoas/palys which are what I am trying to save from the GSP. Maybe I should take Rob on his offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ford October 10, 2016 Share October 10, 2016 One thing you could try is turn off all flow and get aiptasiaX and slowly cover the gsp over the course of days or weeks and slowly kill off the gsp. It can be a tedious task but if you do half dollar size patches each time it shouldn't affect your water quality too much and should kill anything you cover with it. Zoas included so becareful when you apply the aipX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark October 10, 2016 Author Share October 10, 2016 I could frag the zoas around the GSP to provide clean area to burn. I have fragged most of these before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ford October 10, 2016 Share October 10, 2016 I would not burning anything, It's just not worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark October 10, 2016 Author Share October 10, 2016 Even if I have cleared everything away from the remaining GSP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ford October 10, 2016 Share October 10, 2016 I will always consider myself amateur at best when it comes to knowledge here. There are members who are way smarter then I and hopefully one of them will chime in and prove me wrong. I just personally would not take the chance with an open flame, it's not worth it. I have taken zoa covered rocks, placed them in a bucket outside and dumped a couple gallons of vinegar on them and ran. I'm still here to talk about it... Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami October 10, 2016 Share October 10, 2016 Mark, please Google "palytoxin reef tank" for your own safety. Palytoxin is one of the most potent toxins known and a few micrograms can kill you. Now, it's found in different concentrations in different species, but you need to be aware of what can happen before making this choice. Here's a well known story about one of our members from a few years back who spent a little time in the hospital when he made a bad choice trying to nuke some palys. To his credit, this happened a little before the hobby really took notice of palytoxin. However, after his experience, we were all put on warning. Here's another, more recent thread. Just be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLord October 11, 2016 Share October 11, 2016 Ph.D. biologist here. I never flash my credentials, but I am going to here in order to establish scientific credibility. Palytoxin is an incredible molecule, and when aerosolized can be extremely toxic. Trace amounts of this stuff, if inhaled or consumed orally can cause serious damage or kill. Proceed with caution whenever heating, burning, or boiling anything from your reef tank. Concentrations of palytoxin vary greatly among Palythoa and not much is really known about the different species. The risk is probably low, but nontrivial and potentially deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark October 11, 2016 Author Share October 11, 2016 Thanks for the warning. Will proceed with caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami October 11, 2016 Share October 11, 2016 Ph.D. biologist here. I never flash my credentials, but I am going to here in order to establish scientific credibility. Palytoxin is an incredible molecule, and when aerosolized can be extremely toxic. Trace amounts of this stuff, if inhaled or consumed orally can cause serious damage or kill. Proceed with caution whenever heating, burning, or boiling anything from your reef tank. Concentrations of palytoxin vary greatly among Palythoa and not much is really known about the different species. The risk is probably low, but nontrivial and potentially deadly. Thanks for the warning. Will proceed with caution. Unfortunately, the plain brown paly that caused Steve Outlaw's problem is prolific here in the DC area. CDC has looked into them and they are very potent. I have battled them myself and have suffered as well. There are pictures of them on the web. However, as has been said, palytoxin concentration varies greatly by species and most probably do not pose the same level of risk. It's kind of like an empty chamber in Russian Roulette. Why chance it? Recently I had to "take care" of a rock that had a mat of what I like to call Outlaw Palys. In the run-up and aftermath of MACNA, I let my tank suffer. I finally got around to rebooting it this past week and taking another swipe at eliminating these palys was on my list. Having a lot of respect for what they can do now, I always glove up, wear eye protection and, as an added measure, I wear an insecticide-rated respirator whenever handling these palys out of the water. It seems to work. Crossing my fingers, I hope it's the last I see of them. They're ugly and they're a pest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami October 11, 2016 Share October 11, 2016 Here are links from our forum. We've discussed it many times in the past. http://wamas.org/forums/topic/69535-josh-roberts-decadence-palytoxin http://wamas.org/forums/topic/54719-measuring-incidences-of-tank-poisoiningstingsbites/ http://wamas.org/forums/topic/54719-measuring-incidences-of-tank-poisoiningstingsbites/?do=findComment&comment=461975 http://wamas.org/forums/topic/47325-sickness-around-tank http://wamas.org/forums/topic/29547-how-poison-are-zoa-polyps http://wamas.org/forums/topic/61712-danger-will-robinson-danger http://wamas.org/forums/topic/61509-palytoxin-expertise-needed From the link above: Ha. You can search anything on the net these days: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin The toxicity of palytoxin is due to its binding to Na+,K+-ATPase (sodium pump), where it interacts with the natural binding site of ouabain with very high affinity. Na+,K+-ATPase is a transmembranal protein, which is found on the surface of every vertebrate cell. Also, the sodium pump is necessary for viability of all cells, and this explains the fact that palytoxin affects all cells.%5B17%5D Palytoxin is the first toxic compound found to cause formation of a channel. Through this channel, which it forms within the sodium pump, monovalent positive ions such as sodium and potassium can diffuse freely thereby destroying the ion gradient of the cell.%5B18%5D%5B19%5D Once palytoxin is bound to the pump, it flips constantly between open and normal conformations. The open conformation is more likely (>90% probability). If palytoxin disscociates, the pump will return to closed conformation.%5B20%5D In open conformation, millions of ions diffuse through the pump per second, whereas only about one hundred ions are transported through a normal functioning transporter.%5B20%5DBecause the mechanism of action of palytoxin was so unlike any other, it was initially not widely accepted. This was primarily because it was not expected that a pump which provides active transport, could become an ion channel by binding of a compound such as palytoxin.%5B17%5D Therefore, there were some alternative hypotheses, which were reviewed by Frelin and van Renterghem in 1995.%5B21%5D The breakthrough research which is seen as proof for the sodium pump mechanism was performed in yeast cells. These cells do not have the sodium pump, and hence palytoxin does not affect them. But once they were given the DNA to encode for complete sheep Na+,K+-ATPase, they were killed by palytoxin.%5B22%5D More WAMAS links: http://wamas.org/forums/topic/54689-my-run-in-with-palytoxin http://wamas.org/forums/topic/42822-steveoutlaw-is-famous And here's the post that started it all 9 years ago. In it Steve Outlaw says... I was dipping one of my rocks in boiling water to kill some nuisance polyps and I inhaled some of the fumes. Now I can't stop blowing my nose and my chest feels like it is congested. Has anybody been through this before? Do I need to go to the doctor? And then, his two follow up posts here and here. And, finally, to round things out, here's one from Reef Builders: http://reefbuilders.com/2012/03/04/palytoxin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b October 11, 2016 Share October 11, 2016 I would not burning anything, It's just not worth the risk. Burning zoas? Bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark October 11, 2016 Author Share October 11, 2016 (edited) I am planning on fragging the zoas (which I have done many times) to give me a zoa free zone of GSP to burn with a pencil torch. Zoas are: Toxic Revenge, Punk Rockers, and SunnyDs. Any of these zoas know to carry toxin? Edited October 11, 2016 by arking_mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now