How times per hour do you turn your tank over?

[Reefer_Madness]

Just curious how many GPH people are pushing per gallon of their DT. Not talking about circ inside their tank with PHs or closed loop. Just what is going through your overflow and return pump.

 

I'm setting up a new 120g tank and it has 2 1-1/2" overflow pipes rated at up to 1500 GPH. I have 2 3/4" returns. I figured I can probably push the 1500 if I want to, but in the past I haven't really prioritized turning the water over. I've just focused on circulating in the tank with powerheads.

 

Which brings me to my question....how many times an hour do you turn your tank over? GPH/Volume of DT.

[khh27]

I honestly think anything over 8-900 is overkill. 6-800 is what I like That way the skimmer has good reaction time. DT turnover all depends on what your trying to achieve on coral types could be 10x for softies or 50x for SPS dominate.

 

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[Jon Lazar]

For my new build, I'm planning on about 1X turnover from my return.

[Reefer_Madness]

For my new build, I'm planning on about 1X turnover from my return.

Per hour??

[khh27]

Per hour??

+1?

 

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[GOSKN5]

I like mine pretty slow... I'm probably running about 5x an hour now...

[arking_mark]

Old school advice was 8x or greater...back about 20 years ago. Now a days it really depends on your set up. If all your filtration is in the sump, then turnover will be critical. If you have a DSB and tons of live rock and are only using sump for protein skimming and chemical then most of the filtration is occurring in the tank and turn over can be minimal.

[Reefer_Madness]

Yeah, that "old school" thought of 8x was when they didn't have such cool powerheads.  I got my first reef tank almost 20 years ago and I remember the choices.  Not so good and really expensive. 

 

In my more recent tanks I have been doing about 4x per hour, but MP10s and Gyres to keep circulation in the tank high for my SPS. 

 

Since this is my first drilled tank with ghost overflow, I am curious what GPH I will NEED in order to keep the flow silent.  Now I'm a little worried it will be more flow than I want into my sump.  I'll find out this weekend when I get it wet I guess.

[paul b]

Zero, I don't have a sump. 

[arking_mark]

RSM 130D is my DT. 8.46 is the turnover.

[newbie2014]

Zero, I don't have a sump. 

 

Now that's a revelation. Considering how successful you are with reef tanks, I thought you would have a killer sump system.

 

And here I am blaming my failure to grow corals on the absent of a sump.  

[Jon Lazar]

Per hour??

 

Yep.  The tank is 350 gallons, and I'll get something like 450g/hr out of the pump after head and friction losses.  I'll run it like that for a while and see how it works.  I think I'll have enough movement for (1) adequate surface skimming and (2) mixing.

 

I plan to use both a closed loop (Vectra L1) and powerheads (combination of MPs and possibly Gyres) to achieve proper in-tank circulation for a mixed reef.

 

If the return rate is too low and causes a problem, I'll upsize the pump.  But I want to try low flow first and see for myself.

 

[WheresTheReef]

Yeah, that "old school" thought of 8x was when they didn't have such cool powerheads. I got my first reef tank almost 20 years ago and I remember the choices. Not so good and really expensive.

 

In my more recent tanks I have been doing about 4x per hour, but MP10s and Gyres to keep circulation in the tank high for my SPS.

 

Since this is my first drilled tank with ghost overflow, I am curious what GPH I will NEED in order to keep the flow silent. Now I'm a little worried it will be more flow than I want into my sump. I'll find out this weekend when I get it wet I guess.

If you put a gate valve (e.g beananimal) then you shouldn't have a problem with a lower flow to keep it quite.

[Rob A]

Mag 18 on a 220 with about a 4 foot head and a couple elbows and whatnot, so I guess that's about 6x per hour. (Not counting the real volume after rock displacement...just based on tank size of 220)

[paul b]

Now that's a revelation. Considering how successful you are with reef tanks, I thought you would have a killer sump system.

They were not invented when I started the tank.  

[YHSublime]

If you put a gate valve (e.g beananimal) then you shouldn't have a problem with a lower flow to keep it quite.

+1

 

 

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[gmerek2]

I would do two mag5 pumps on a 120. That way if one fails you still have one pumpin good water. That's 1000gpm before friction loss

Edited March 26, 2016 by gmerek2

[Reefer_Madness]

I have a Vectra M1 from my other setup. It will have to do.

[dave w]

Zero for me too because like paulB I don't have sump.   I don't understand why people want to separate the flow they get from powerheads from the flow they get through their sump.   I'm sure every skimmer needs adequate dwell time and sumps need adequate flow for the different types of filtration.

 

But I think as far as the sps corals in your tank are concerned, they slough off their mucus coating periodically to shed algae and probably for other reasons, and you need sufficient flow to wash that mucus away from the corals.  But why does it matter whether the flow is from powerheads or the sump pump?

 

Sorry to be naive (or maybe I'm just dim), but as a sumpless aquarist I don't see the distinction.

Edited March 26, 2016 by dave w

[Anemone]

1x turnover is very appealing for the smaller overflow, cheaper return pump, and less electricity and heat. Does anyone run even less than 1x (other than the 0x / no sump folks?)

 

Is there any reason to be concerned about oxygen? Highly skimmed water that is returned to the tank should be pretty much saturated with oxygen. Slower turnover rates would decrease the amount of this highly oxygenated water entering the tank. Would good water movement from wave makers be able to compensate?

[paul b]

A sump is just someplace to put equipment like skimmers and if you use one, a doser.  It also allows you to have more water in the system.  Besides that, they don't do anything but they are a good thing for the reasons I said.

If I started a tank tomorrow, I still would not install one but I am very Old school.

[Anemone]

On further reading I think I was wrong about skimmers being big contributors to oxygenation. Apparently the effect isn't so significant except in small systems. Link: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php

[YHSublime]

A sump is just someplace to put equipment like skimmers and if you use one, a doser.  It also allows you to have more water in the system.  Besides that, they don't do anything but they are a good thing for the reasons I said.

 

This. Instead of having all the equipment hanging off the back, or inside your tank itself, it keeps the tank looking clean, plus adds the water volume as mentioned. It also helps you skim the surface of your tank with the overflow.

 

Folks, I'm sure the OP is aware of all the benefits of keeping a sump vs. not, lets keep it on track with turnover rates and get the original question addressed!

[dave w]

I hope I'm not beating the horse to death, but again I'm confused by the OP differentiating between flow from the sump and flow from the powerheads.  I think if he has strong powerhead flow in the tank then he only needs sufficient flow through the sump to keep everything smooth down there -- in terms of adequate turnover for the skimmer and other filters/reactors and good flow through his live rocks or algae.  

 

So I honestly believe that if in-tank flow is strong, he could get by with turnover through the sump at just 1x or 2x per hour.  I know this is a lot lower than most other people would recommend and I'm sure they have good reasons for more rapid turnover.  

[Reefer_Madness]

Really the purpose of my post was to figure out what everyone's flow was in their sump.  If you haven't noticed, that is my MO.  I see that a lot of WAMAS members give advice that they do not always practice, so I ask questions like "What are your Ns and Ps in your tank?" rather than "Where should I keep my Ns and Ps for the best SPS growth?".  I know most of your tanks from looking at posts on WAMAS or knowing you personally, so I would rather see parameters and associate them with the pictures I have seen or the insightful posts you have made.  I way advice based on your tank.  I realize that some people are just trying to be helpful, but to me.........facts talk.  There are so many opinions on what you "should do" that I tune it all out and look at facts.  Theory is cool only if it works.  If you don't have any success from your advice, I don't listen.  Feelings are really cool.....for someone else.  The proof is in the pudding.  Show me your success and show me how you did it. 

 

Sorry if this sounds blunt.  I just want new reefers to know that this hobby we have is full of opinions and they are just that "opinions".  None of them are WRONG.  There are a bunch of members above that have very successful tanks.  All have different approaches.  We always need to keep our mind open to new ways of doing things.  And that is what I am doing now.  I have done it one way for a long time, now I am checking to see what others are doing.  My advice to anyone would be that you should never think your way is the only way.  That is not the case.  Be open to change and admit when you have made a mistake.  Most WAMAS members only talk about their successes, so don't get down when you have a failure that didn't work.  We've all had them. 

 

Ok, I'm off my soapbox now.