Reefer_Madness September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 Any thoughts on this? I'm not having any problems with my current setup of 2-part dosers dosing Code A and Code B, but I am curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I dosed 2 part for many years. Below are the reason I switched to the following method: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5QJJLprX7aQclZsN2pyLU1zTU0/view?pli=1 1. I got tired of mixing the 2 parts. (not an issue if you buy pre-mixed) 2. I got tired of testing for both KH and Ca and adjusting them independently 3. My salinity tended to creep up because I was adding so much salt (chlorides) to the system. Not as stable as I wanted If you can evaporate enough water from your system to keep up with the demand of your corals with Kalkwasser, I would suggest that your water parameters will be far more stable and easier to maintain. Bruce Any thoughts on this? I'm not having any problems with my current setup of 2-part dosers dosing Code A and Code B, but I am curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer_Madness September 16, 2015 Author Share September 16, 2015 I dosed 2 part for many years. Below are the reason I switched to the following method: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5QJJLprX7aQclZsN2pyLU1zTU0/view?pli=1 1. I got tired of mixing the 2 parts. (not an issue if you buy pre-mixed) 2. I got tired of testing for both KH and Ca and adjusting them independently 3. My salinity tended to creep up because I was adding so much salt (chlorides) to the system. Not as stable as I wanted If you can evaporate enough water from your system to keep up with the demand of your corals with Kalkwasser, I would suggest that your water parameters will be far more stable and easier to maintain. Bruce Bruce- do you think it is worth it on a 60g cube, or should I wait until I get a larger tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I would say to try kalkwasser on any size tank. The first thing I would do is measure how much water you evaporate each day. Check out the link in my first response. The article talks about adding a kalk stirrer and how to go about it Safetly. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keraxis September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I believe the point where you are dosing over 60mil of each is where its no longer financially viable for 2 part. That was from a reef threads podcast with an expert in reef chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethsolomon September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 (edited) IMO go calcium reactor. With Revive media so you dont have to have the Kawlk stirrer. Edited September 16, 2015 by sethsolomon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keraxis September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 IMO go calcium reactor. agreed. If your going to make the plunge... Do this. I guess it also depends on what your keeping. How high of a calc need is there. Does constancy matter for you or was it like my old tank where I could dump in 2 part any time of the day as long as I did it everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 The only issue with going calcium reactor only is that it tends to drive down pH. I can not keep up with the coral demand with kalkwasser only so I run both a kalk stirrer and a calcium reactor. I run the calcium reactor as a supplement to the kalk stirrer. This way I keep my pH up. Bruce IMO go calcium reactor. With Revive media so you dont have to have the Kawlk stirrer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 The only issue with going calcium reactor only is that it tends to drive down pH. I can not keep up with the coral demand with kalkwasser only so I run both a kalk stirrer and a calcium reactor. I run the calcium reactor as a supplement to the kalk stirrer. This way I keep my pH up. Bruce Bruce is right on this money with his advice. I wish I read his article before I reinvented the wheel myself. The kalk setup he describes is exactly what I did. If you just run your ATO through the kalk, it's a risk of an overdose. Been there, done that! As far as using a CaRx, keeping the kalk online will help keep your pH up. It's more than just simple high pH kalk output negating low pH CaRx output. There's some chemistry involved but the kalk ions really bind up the CO2 from the CaRx so they are a perfect match for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott711 September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I use a calcium reactor and dose 2 part. I dial in the calcium reactor and then use the two part to adjust levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbwebb September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I use a calcium reactor and dose 2 part. I dial in the calcium reactor and then use the two part to adjust levels. I do the same thing. I've done 100% 2-part, Kalk stirrer fed by peristaltic pump, and now Calcium Reactor with the very occasional 2-part to get levels back to perfect if my Alk or Ca get a little low. Setting up the calcium reactor seemed like a daunting task, but it really wasn't too complicated. My alk and calcium usually stay within a +/- 10 ppm on a week to week basis via Hanna Checkers. I figure that is at least within the tolerance/accuracy range of the Hanna Checkers. The calcium reactor is almost hands off once you have it dialed in. I have to add media every 6 months or so, replace my CO2 every 6-8 months, and test my parameters once a week (or at least that's what I try to do). I found 2-part to be expensive and I felt like I was always adjusting my amounts. Kalk worked well, until it stopped working due to a clog, or the pump on the stirrer seized up. Kalk is some harsh stuff and tends, at least for me, to require careful monitoring to ensure it's working consistently. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 This can be the problem with a kalk stirrer. This is why I encourage reef keepers to set the kalk stirrer up as an overflow style. This prevents clogging and you only run fresh clean water through the dosing pump. If you lake a look at the article I wrotw, you will see how I do this. Bruce Kalk worked well, until it stopped working due to a clog, or the pump on the stirrer seized up. Kalk is some harsh stuff and tends, at least for me, to require careful monitoring to ensure it's working consistently. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer_Madness September 16, 2015 Author Share September 16, 2015 This can be the problem with a kalk stirrer. This is why I encourage reef keepers to set the kalk stirrer up as an overflow style. This prevents clogging and you only run fresh clean water through the dosing pump. If you lake a look at the article I wrotw, you will see how I do this. Bruce Your article and tank is what inspired me to start this thread actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer_Madness September 16, 2015 Author Share September 16, 2015 What about pH and such? Kalk systems have a higher pH which is good for SPS, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I shoot for water parameters found here: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm Bruce What about pH and such? Kalk systems have a higher pH which is good for SPS, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 Your question, to me, is actually a little backward. Kalkwasser is a balanced additive. That means that it adds calcium and alkalinity in a proportion that is roughly equal to consumption. (Chemically speaking, one molecule of kalk, Ca(OH)2, dissociates to deliver one part calcium and two parts bicarbonate alkalinity.) Here's the rub: Calcium hydroxide (kalk) has very low solubility in water. That means that you can't dissolve much of it in water before you start seeing suspended solids that eventually settle out. When used in your top-off to replace fresh water that's evaporated (or in any other system that does delivers up to that amount of saturated kalkwasser), you're fundamentally limited to how much calcium and alkalinity can be delivered to your system by this solubility limit. One of the benefits of kalkwasser is that it tends to raise the pH in your tank, theoretically making it easier for stony corals to lay down their skeletons. It does this by "consuming" the dissolved CO2 in the tank to form carbonate and bicarbonate ions. In actuality, carbon dioxide, bicarbonate and carbonate all exist in a balance in your tank and the relative level of each is in part determined by the pH in your tank. Anyway, because dosing saturated kalkwasser is only good up to a limit, it's normally the method that needs additional supplementation later on. Some aquarists will start with kalkwasser and then, when that supplementation approach hits its limit and can't make up for consumption by growing corals, other supplementation approaches are added (e.g. two part or calcium reactors). So, the question that used to be asked was more like, "My tank has outgrown what kalk can provide. What do I do now?" If you decide to switch from two part to kalkwasser, keep in mind that you may or may not be able to keep up with demand using kalkwasser alone, and you may still have to make up the shortfall with some other supplementation method (such as two-part). Also keep in mind that kalkwasser does not supplement magnesium (which is often the "third part" of two-part dosing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 Right! Hence the reason for 2 fans over my display, one over the sump and one over the frag tank. I try to maximize evaporation so I can maximize the amount of kalk I can add to the system. I then supplement with the calcium reactor. Super, super stable. My parameters do not budge from week to week. And I do dose magnesium chloride as pointed out in the last paragraph. Bruce Your question, to me, is actually a little backward. Kalkwasser is a balanced additive. That means that it adds calcium and alkalinity in a proportion that is roughly equal to consumption. (Chemically speaking, one molecule of kalk, Ca(OH)2, dissociates to deliver one part calcium and two parts bicarbonate alkalinity.) Here's the rub: Calcium hydroxide (kalk) has very low solubility in water. That means that you can't dissolve much of it in water before you start seeing suspended solids that eventually settle out. When used in your top-off to replace fresh water that's evaporated (or in any other system that does delivers up to that amount of saturated kalkwasser), you're fundamentally limited to how much calcium and alkalinity can be delivered to your system by this solubility limit. One of the benefits of kalkwasser is that it tends to raise the pH in your tank, theoretically making it easier for stony corals to lay down their skeletons. It does this by "consuming" the dissolved CO2 in the tank to form carbonate and bicarbonate ions. In actuality, carbon dioxide, bicarbonate and carbonate all exist in a balance in your tank and the relative level of each is in part determined by the pH in your tank. Anyway, because dosing saturated kalkwasser is only good up to a limit, it's normally the method that needs additional supplementation later on. Some aquarists will start with kalkwasser and then, when that supplementation approach hits its limit and can't make up for consumption by growing corals, other supplementation approaches are added (e.g. two part or calcium reactors). So, the question that used to be asked was more like, "My tank has outgrown what kalk can provide. What do I do now?" If you decide to switch from two part to kalkwasser, keep in mind that you may or may not be able to keep up with demand using kalkwasser alone, and you may still have to make up the shortfall with some other supplementation method (such as two-part). Also keep in mind that kalkwasser does not supplement magnesium (which is often the "third part" of two-part dosing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstContact September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 Article looks like a good read;so, I printed it out. I use kalkwasser. I have also tried two part via Randy's (of Reef Central) instructions for ice melter and baking soda, but always found that these additions contributed much more significantly to precipitate and equipment seizing up prematurely due to the additives not going into solution fast enough regardless if I dumped them in front of the powerhead in my sump. Maybe I would have had better results adding directly to the tank. Kalk has worked great for me for about eight years, but speak of the devil, I did have an overdose last year due to the skimmer going crazy and removing most of the water from the sump into an overflow container. It definitely ended up in a loss of some corals and my huge centerpiece chalice; I have since moved my ph probe to the tank. The probe was the culprit b/c with no water it wasn't measuring accurately and dumped lots of fresh kalkwasser into the sump to replace what was over skimmed. I like the idea of sticking with kalk b/c even though accidents can happen, it is just too easy, budget friendly, everything is balanced, raises my pH, and it doesn't add phosphates. If and when I reach my limit with kalk, I would turn to Randy's two part recipe again simply for the economics of it. But if money wasn't a concern, I'd pick up a calcium reactor and CO2 tank. Luckily I have been able to p/u a regulator for free recently from someone leaving the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer_Madness September 16, 2015 Author Share September 16, 2015 Rather than dosing Mag separately, why not use something like Brightwell Aquatic's Kalk+2 which includes Mag? http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/kalk2.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 Rather than dosing Mag separately, why not use something like Brightwell Aquatic's Kalk+2 which includes Mag? http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/kalk2.php Unlike calcium and alkalinity uptake, which is relatively stable (20 ppm of calcium for every 2.8 dKH of alkalinity), magnesium uptake in a reef tank is heavily dependent upon the species that are in the tank and how much magnesium is taken up in their skeletal structures. This amount can vary from below 1% for some corals to as much as 5% for others.Because of the variation, some people may find their magnesium depleting too quickly or rising over time. I would just check your magnesium from time to time and dose a mix of magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate to bring levels back in line. An alternative to users of calcium reactors when using some media known to be low in magnesium is to add some dolomite to the reactor. Dolomite contains magnesium so it supplements magnesium at the same time as calcium, alkalinity, and other trace elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer_Madness September 20, 2015 Author Share September 20, 2015 I took the leap and ordered an Avast Kalk Stirrer. I couldn't turn down the sale they have going on. 15% off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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