DuffyGeos November 7, 2014 Author Share November 7, 2014 Shorter cycle time according to their website: http://www.caribsea.com/caribsea/itempage_marine_substrates_aragalive.html Then again, I also use this stuff too: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18986 That is what I figure is the advantage with live sand...I just don't know how "pure" the sand is, and did they add the bacteria or is it just scooped off the ocean floor? I have heard about Dr Tim's, there are also other ones out there.... So I wonder if the dry sand and put a bottled bacteria in it is the safest (not the fastest way) to go. I could then seed it from my 16g tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme November 7, 2014 Share November 7, 2014 Shorter cycle time according to their website: http://www.caribsea.com/caribsea/itempage_marine_substrates_aragalive.html Then again, I also use this stuff too: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18986 Yep, not disputing cycle time at all. That's why people look for "live" this or that. At least I hope they understand that's the reason. I agree w/ Fishie on the special grade too. Algae seems to grow easier on the bed if you don't maintain your tank and adjust if things look strange. But it's super easy to siphon and clean as you're not pulling out buckets of sand each time. Ken..you just took 1 year to build your fish room. You don't want to wait an additional 4 weeks to do a fishless cycle w/o additives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime November 7, 2014 Share November 7, 2014 Ken, go 3 months! With all those fish you want to add, they will thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 7, 2014 Author Share November 7, 2014 (edited) Yep, not disputing cycle time at all. That's why people look for "live" this or that. At least I hope they understand that's the reason. I agree w/ Fishie on the special grade too. Algae seems to grow easier on the bed if you don't maintain your tank and adjust if things look strange. But it's super easy to siphon and clean as you're not pulling out buckets of sand each time. Ken..you just took 1 year to build your fish room. You don't want to wait an additional 4 weeks to do a fishless cycle w/o additives? Ken, go 3 months! With all those fish you want to add, they will thank you! So does the concensus say I should buy dry sand, add bottle bacteria, and wait 3 months? - Have the tank cycle for 3 months -I can then get my QT tanks set up, get fish going in those. -Get my small coral QT tank set up, get some corals started. -So I can still be playing with the sump and grow out tank connection to the DT. -I believe I don't want a light on anyway? -I believe I don't want to be running a filter at this time? - I think I need to keep the tank heated? - I think I need to circulate the water in the tank? - I could add cocoapods (bottle or do I get them from a member) - Do the cocoapods need a food source if I am using dry sand? Am I missing anything? Edited November 7, 2014 by DuffyGeos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime November 7, 2014 Share November 7, 2014 So does the concensus say I should buy dry sand, add bottle bacteria, and wait 3 months? - Have the tank cycle for 3 months -I can then get my QT tanks set up, get fish going in those. -Get my small coral QT tank set up, get some corals started. -So I can still be playing with the sump and grow out tank connection to the DT. -I believe I don't want a light on anyway? -I believe I don't want to be running a filter at this time? - I think I need to keep the tank heated? - I think I need to circulate the water in the tank? - I could add cocoapods (bottle or do I get them from a member) - Do the cocoapods need a food source if I am using dry sand? Am I missing anything? Read Tom's post on my build starting here, and he follows up with an excerpt from Tony Varga's book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutz123 November 7, 2014 Share November 7, 2014 I have gone dry sand seeded with a bit of live sand from Marine Scene, and also just gone with a Caribsea bagged live sand (not sure what kind but it was sort of fine. Both cycled in about the same amount of time. No preference either way really. I wouldn't add copepods too soon. They will just die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 November 7, 2014 Share November 7, 2014 Sand will cycle on its own, I have my doubts about the efficacy of so called live sand in a bag... I would guess that it is the same as a bag of dry sand with a bottle of bacteria poured in. As for grade of sand, I used all fine oolitic sand in my tank and it didn't create any real issues that weren't easily corrected. It did blow around at first and will still shift around but removal of fine silt and particulates with a while house water filter attached to a pump cleared the water up. Drifting sand in pumps was rectified by angling strainers up and above the middle of the tank. Ken, if you want, I have a nice solution for you that requires only manual labor... I have an in sump deep sand bed that needs to be removed - contained in a rubbermaid garbage can - that you are welcome to remove and have. I would guess the sand is still pretty clean but have never dug down into it. You are welcome to take most of this for free, you just need to scoop it out (I was planning on removing about a gallon of sand for a ghost crab bowl). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstContact November 8, 2014 Share November 8, 2014 (edited) I've always gone with Caribsea dry sand and seeded it from an LFS a, a friend, or another tank. Your supposed to get a lot of critters with the arag alive, but I' be always past it up due to the extra cost. I use special grade reef sand and anything b/w 1 and 4 mm. I also add Caribsea puka shell for gobbies and basslets. BTW oolitic sand will blow everywhere if you a) drop a powerheads b) use one of the new powerful powerheads/gyres. But you can mix it. Edited November 8, 2014 by FirstContact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 November 8, 2014 Share November 8, 2014 BTW oolitic sand will blow everywhere if you a) drop a powerheads b) use one of the new powerful powerheads/gyres. But you can mix it. I don't have experience to say it won't as I don't have any powerheads or a gyre pump but will say that when my tank was initially set up the sand blew everywhere but that seasoned sand with a bacterial film does not get stirred up as easily or blown around. The proof is in the poop, so to speak, as my tangs would always forage on the sandbed and release large clouds of sand as they swam (literally looked like cropdusters) and it always fell straight back down to the sandbed even when it went through current (meaning it did not stay suspended and cloudy in the water column). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM November 8, 2014 Share November 8, 2014 Yeah, the film seems to make the tiny grain stuff heavier with age. I used dry tropic eden miniflakes and wish i had gone a bit smaller grain sometimes, but this size doesnt move at all. I seeded with a scoop of gulf sand that marine scene keeps in a tank. It seemed to add some diversity for sure. I have spaghetti worms, different kinds of pods, lots of bristle worms, and even a snail or two that must have come from there. In my child care center tank there is the fine grain stuff, and the powerheads do gradually move it around. FWIW, on cycling, Rob G has a great post here somewhere from years ago where he advocates putting in rocks, sand, water, salt, light, stirring, and just running and feeding the whole thing for months with no coral or fish including running filtration and lights. No cleanup crew except what develops microscopically. Let the algae grow to start. Nice break in for equipment and your processes and you will build a deep diversity of micro life for a good foundation before moving up the food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSexyShrimp November 8, 2014 Share November 8, 2014 FWIW i got a custom size cutting board (HDPE plastic) inexpensively from http://www.cuttingboardcompany.com/ and am pretty pleased without sand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 8, 2014 Author Share November 8, 2014 Yeah, the film seems to make the tiny grain stuff heavier with age. I used dry tropic eden miniflakes and wish i had gone a bit smaller grain sometimes, but this size doesnt move at all. I seeded with a scoop of gulf sand that marine scene keeps in a tank. It seemed to add some diversity for sure. I have spaghetti worms, different kinds of pods, lots of bristle worms, and even a snail or two that must have come from there. In my child care center tank there is the fine grain stuff, and the powerheads do gradually move it around. FWIW, on cycling, Rob G has a great post here somewhere from years ago where he advocates putting in rocks, sand, water, salt, light, stirring, and just running and feeding the whole thing for months with no coral or fish including running filtration and lights. No cleanup crew except what develops microscopically. Let the algae grow to start. Nice break in for equipment and your processes and you will build a deep diversity of micro life for a good foundation before moving up the food chain. I am finding that is called the "European Method". I think I am heading that direction. FWIW i got a custom size cutting board (HDPE plastic) inexpensively from http://www.cuttingboardcompany.com/ and am pretty pleased without sand Thanks ! looks interesting, may have to buy some cutting board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 euro method is not my idea but I have used it on numerous tanks and it works great. There was even a speaker at one of the past meetings who talked about it. piut sand and rock in tank, run lights and skimmer and sump as normal, don't add carbon/gfo, don't dose. seed with fresh live rock and fresh live sand, run for 90+ days and watch what kind of coolness comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 Tony Vargas preaches it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 My last build (65g with 40g sump) I went HDPE and actually like the looks of it (not as much as virgin sand, but better than I thought I would) and liked the benefits so I recently switched over my 225g to 1/2 HDPE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 So I have 2 maybe 3, 5 gallon buckets of sand you can have..... Just needs a good washing. The sand I have came from reefrocks.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 Isnt HDPE less dense than water? How do you keep it from floating? Silicone to bottom or just rocks sitting on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSexyShrimp November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 Isnt HDPE less dense than water? How do you keep it from floating? Silicone to bottom or just rocks sitting on it? mine never didn't have rocks on it. I did my scaping with dry rock then added water. no silicone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 9, 2014 Author Share November 9, 2014 Isnt HDPE less dense than water? How do you keep it from floating? Silicone to bottom or just rocks sitting on it? I never thought of that. I wonder how many pounds of rock you would need on a 1/2 board per sq. in. to make sure it did not want to rise up or tip over? I now would wonder if it could be unstable. Maybe look into the 1/4 board which would need half as much. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSexyShrimp November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 I never thought of that. I wonder how many pounds of rock you would need on a 1/2 board per sq. in. to make sure it did not want to rise up or tip over? I now would wonder if it could be unstable. Maybe look into the 1/4 board which would need half as much. Thanks When I was doing my research I read it's best to use at least 1/2" because less than that would warp/bow and then crud could get trapped underneath the edges. Maybe glue two cutting boards together and test in the bath tub :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 I think either oldreefer or do reefer did a star board bottom with epoxy and sand glued to it. Looked very natural and not a detritus trap. There is a build thread somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSexyShrimp November 9, 2014 Share November 9, 2014 I think either oldreefer or do reefer did a star board bottom with epoxy and sand glued to it. Looked very natural and not a detritus trap. There is a build thread somewhere. The downside, which isn't a big downside IMO, is that coralline will over take the faux sand (or "fand" ) so it won't look natural longterm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 9, 2014 Author Share November 9, 2014 The downside, which isn't a big downside IMO, is that coralline will over take the faux sand (or "fand" ) so it won't look natural longterm. I plan on covering it with sand, I just don't want to attach the rock structure and the mounting piece to the bottom of the tank. I am just looking for a base to mount my rock on with Marco Mortar, and fill all the small holes below the sand level so there is no place for detritus to accumulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 (edited) Since my 225g is acrylic I had to cut my hdpe down to 2'x2' sections to fit. Mine tank is also 30" wide and it does float and rather well. About a 25 pound rock kept each piece in place until all were in. My 65g has 1/4 in it and as long as you home the corners to go over the silicone, you are good to go but it went in in one piece. Edited November 10, 2014 by MillerTime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 10, 2014 Author Share November 10, 2014 Since my 225g is acrylic I had to cut my hdpe down to 2'x2' sections to fit. Mine tank is also 30" wide and it does float and rather well. About a 25 pound rock kept each piece in place until all were in. My 65g has 1/4 in it and as long as you home the corners to go over the silicone, you are good to go but it went in in one piece. Thanks for the input- my holes are 19" x 19" so I will have to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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