Want to add daily automatic water changes, but have some questions

[Decadence]

I'm looking to add a system to automatically do water changes. The problem that I am faced with is that my whole system is confined to a single wall. I have other real-estate up for grabs in the room but there is a doorway on each side of the system. My RODI is on the other side of the room in a closet at one corner. To get to this area without making it too ugly, I would have to cross over the door frame with my hoses tucked against the trim and then back down to the moulding at the floor. Going through the ceiling in this situation is not an option for me due to the way that everything is configured, it would require drywall work which I don't wish to do.

 

Near the RODI closet, I have a space where I could easily keep a free-standing 50+ gallon drum for new saltwater. I also have a drain into the home's plumbing.

 

My questions:

 

How far can I expect to reasonably run 1/4" RODI tubing before the restriction start to cause problems with a peristaltic pump? I know that head heigh makes no difference but back-pressure could wear out the tubing or the motor faster. Would I be better off using some master flex heads and rigging them to a reliable low-RPM, high-torque motor?

 

Will minuscule difference in head height cause slight differences in water transfer when using two of the same pump due to a slight difference in load? Would I be better off using a single motor with dual heads?

 

Will my salt water need to be circulated 24/7, occasionally, once a day, etc.. if it is sitting in a semi-sealed container for a month? I'm not worried about keeping it aerated as the water changes will be small. I'm more worried about bacteria build-up.

 

 

 

Thanks guys

[Coral Hind]

Since peristaltic pumps push the fluid at a slow flow rate there is little friction or resistance from a long run. Peristaltic pumps work on trapping the fluid in the flexible rubber hose and pushing it out as the rotor turns. This makes them pump a constant volume with each cycle. So if you had two of the same unit with non extreme differences in head pressure, then they will pump the same. Something to remember is you have to factor in the evap rate of the display so the pump from tank to drain will be slightly less depending on your daily evap rate. I would have the pump in the storage container run occasionally to make sure nothing settles out of solution.

[BowieReefer84]

If you are considering an "off the shelf" product check out this thread:

http://wamas.org/forums/topic/66472-genesis-renew-water-change-system/

 

I love the idea of auto waterchanges, and if I ever upgrade that would be a must have.

[scott711]

I do a small water change once a day(~2 gallons).  I have everything configured through my apex.  I have a pump that comes on for 2 minutes (there is a statement to shut off the auto top off) and then the pump turns off and then I have a barrel of salt water that has a pump that pumps it back in.  I have a small pump in the barrel that turns on about once an hour for 1 minute to circulate the saltwater.   

[Decadence]

Since peristaltic pumps push the fluid at a slow flow rate there is little friction or resistance from a long run. Peristaltic pumps work on trapping the fluid in the flexible rubber hose and pushing it out as the rotor turns. This makes them pump a constant volume with each cycle. So if you had two of the same unit with non extreme differences in head pressure, then they will pump the same. Something to remember is you have to factor in the evap rate of the display so the pump from tank to drain will be slightly less depending on your daily evap rate. I would have the pump in the storage container run occasionally to make sure nothing settles out of solution.

Thanks for clearing that up. You mention evaporation of tank water. What is the significance if both pumps run at the same time or if I use two heads off of one motor. I assume that evaporation would only factor in if I ran a single length of RODI tubing and pumped both directions through it one at a time. Is this negligible? Could I just turn off my ATO until the cycle is complete?

 

 

 

If you are considering an "off the shelf" product check out this thread:

http://wamas.org/forums/topic/66472-genesis-renew-water-change-system/

 

I love the idea of auto waterchanges, and if I ever upgrade that would be a must have.

That looks like an awesome system…. but for that price, I could have 100 large cheese pizzas from Little Caesars! 

 

I do a small water change once a day(~2 gallons).  I have everything configured through my apex.  I have a pump that comes on for 2 minutes (there is a statement to shut off the auto top off) and then the pump turns off and then I have a barrel of salt water that has a pump that pumps it back in.  I have a small pump in the barrel that turns on about once an hour for 1 minute to circulate the saltwater.   

That's the kind of setup I was thinking of. Have you had any problems with it? have you found it to be worth it?

[TrueTricia]

I do a small water change once a day(~2 gallons).  I have everything configured through my apex.  I have a pump that comes on for 2 minutes (there is a statement to shut off the auto top off) and then the pump turns off and then I have a barrel of salt water that has a pump that pumps it back in.  I have a small pump in the barrel that turns on about once an hour for 1 minute to circulate the saltwater.   

 

I definitely want to come see this system some time.  I have a hard time visualizing how all of these things work.

[matt]

I do a small water change once a day(~2 gallons).  I have everything configured through my apex.  I have a pump that comes on for 2 minutes (there is a statement to shut off the auto top off) and then the pump turns off and then I have a barrel of salt water that has a pump that pumps it back in.  I have a small pump in the barrel that turns on about once an hour for 1 minute to circulate the saltwater.   

 

Possible to get logic commands and pics?

[Tracy G]

Just a thought and have not done it but would it be possible to have 2 ATO to help you do it? So during 1 hour of the day have a pump go for a few minutes, and during that time turn your fresh water ATO off and have a fresh salt water ATO on for 1 hour. Then have the fresh water back on after that. Not sure if it would work but it should work. Thoughts?

 

 

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[dante411x]

This got me thinking of using a dosing pump to do this.. Say use one to pump out 100ml once an hour and another one to pump 100ml in. No reason this wouldn't work, right?

[Tracy G]

This got me thinking of using a dosing pump to do this.. Say use one to pump out 100ml once an hour and another one to pump 100ml in. No reason this wouldn't work, right?

Yes but I'm guessing maybe a salinity monitor may be better as a failsafe? Just thinking

 

 

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[BowieReefer84]

Fun thread, and a little out of my knowledge zone (ok, way out):

 

[scott711]

That's the kind of setup I was thinking of. Have you had any problems with it? have you found it to be worth it?

I have not had any problems with it at all.  Anything that has gone wrong was a result of something I did.  I have added different float switches and valves to make it pretty automated. It is all done through my apex with different logic applied to the pumps, float valves, and time.  I can paste some of my code if you want.

 

I definitely want to come see this system some time.  I have a hard time visualizing how all of these things work.

 

Anytime.  I wanted to make sure it was automated as possible so I wouldn't have to worry about anything.  A bunch of code through my apex and some initial testing.  It has been going pretty consistent for many years. 

Possible to get logic commands and pics?

 

of course.  I try and post up some of my code and some rough pics of how it works.  I have two pumps (one in and one out), a few float valves tied to a breakout box, 2 barrels (one for saltwater and one for RO/DI water) a mixing pump tied to some logic to make it stir it occasionally, and then I can push a doorbell (tied to the breakout box with some code) to manually trigger the pump to turn on  when I am making the saltwater. I dump salt in the RO/DI water, push the doorbell and the pump turns on for an hour.   

[BowieReefer84]

I meant to post this link...

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266571

[Decadence]

I meant to post this link...

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266571

 

That is exactly what I was looking to do! I was thinning of just getting a pair of stackable master flex heads and running them off of a simple wall timer/pump or something rather than running my RKE cables over to control two different motors. Running two at the same time should negate the problems with the ATO level.

 

Come to think of it, I could run three lines and use one to top off my RODI reservoir and run a single reservoir which gets refilled every day and only needs minor adjustments by hand (less room for error). If I tuned my auto water changes for the same volume of my top-off/kalk usage, I would be set to run all three off of one motor. I could run just the small 2(ish) gallon reservoir and get a new kalk reactor to stick at the bottom of my dosing shelf. 

[BowieReefer84]

You could get a motor that runs at a low enough RPM it could just run 24/7...  You wouldn't even need a timer.

[lnevo]

This is a good thread as well.

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2349824

 

I have all the materials and everything programmed, I just need to run the lines and do some tests... That'll be my winter project.

[ctenophore]

I thought using a dual head pump would mean equal flow rates for the input and output lines, but that turned out not to be the case even when head pressures were within a few feet. The simplest and most reliable solution thus far in the many years I've been using auto change systems is two separate peri pumps that are calibrated on a stopwatch. I've found that they (naturally I'm using our avast pumps) only vary in output a few ml over the course of half a year or more. The one that puts saltwater into my system runs 24/7, and the remover pump runs a fraction less on a timer. It really is set and forget. The only upgrade I'm planning is to put both pumps on an ato switch that turns off when the salt reservoir is empty. One nice thing is it can run off a digital wall timer if you don't have a controller.

[Tracy G]

I thought using a dual head pump would mean equal flow rates for the input and output lines, but that turned out not to be the case even when head pressures were within a few feet. The simplest and most reliable solution thus far in the many years I've been using auto change systems is two separate peri pumps that are calibrated on a stopwatch. I've found that they (naturally I'm using our avast pumps) only vary in output a few ml over the course of half a year or more. The one that puts saltwater into my system runs 24/7, and the remover pump runs a fraction less on a timer. It really is set and forget. The only upgrade I'm planning is to put both pumps on an ato switch that turns off when the salt reservoir is empty. One nice thing is it can run off a digital wall timer if you don't have a controller.

Hmm. Really makes me think

 

 

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[Decadence]

I'm glad this thread has tossed around so many ideas. Another thread was discussing blackworm cultures and it has me thinking of building an all-in-one piece of furniture with RO and saltwater reservoirs, set for full automation of water changes in both the reef tank and in a blackworm culture. It actually seams like it would be a quite easy task to accomplish. I may have to take to CAD with this and give you guys an idea of what I want to do.

[dante411x]

I'm glad this thread has tossed around so many ideas. Another thread was discussing blackworm cultures and it has me thinking of building an all-in-one piece of furniture with RO and saltwater reservoirs, set for full automation of water changes in both the reef tank and in a blackworm culture. It actually seams like it would be a quite easy task to accomplish. I may have to take to CAD with this and give you guys an idea of what I want to do.

I would love for you to show the plan of that. Sounds awesome.

[fishdrummer]

I am running the Stenner peristaltic pump with terrific success. I also run a separate system for the ATO via float switches. 

 

Both the fresh and SW tanks are under the floor in the basement .. running the ¼ inch tubing was a chore but it worked out really well. 

 

I also use the APEX to do small water changes throughout the day. Note: I connected an additional APEX power module in the basement to connect to the Stenner Pump. 

 

Ping me if you want me to walk you through it.