20 gallon long sump design

[Orion]

So here is my first attempt at a DIY project - A 20 gallon long sump for the new build (57 gallon rimless).  Need input from the membership to see if this will work.

 

It will have 3 chambers, Intake & Skimmer / Refugium & Reactor / Return & ATO.  I am going to leave 9" in length in the skimmer chamber incase I decide to upgrade in skimmer size down the road.

 

 

Sump final design will look like this...

 

 

Thanks in advance

[Arkonen]

This is very similar to my 20G long sump setup.  Only thing I would suggest to check is your skimmer's recommended depth and tailor your baffle height to it or plan to use a platform to rest it on.  One thing to note, is the water height will be approximately 1/2" higher than your baffle height as it goes over it into the next chamber. 

 

Looks good

[Orion]

Thanks for the reply.  The SCA-301 ideal skimmer depth seems to be 8" from what I read online.

 

Any other comments or suggestions?

[Origami]

I calculated that you have about 9.6 gallons (max) of overflow capacity in the sump to handle return pump or power failure. You say that you only need 7 gallons so you're good there . You've also only got about 1-1/2 gallons min that the return pump will deliver to the tank in the event of a clogged overflow. I'm sure that you'll have at least that much extra capacity up in the tank, so both of your overflow scenarios seem to be covered.

 

That 2.6 gallons of extra overflow capacity figures to be about 2-1/2 inches of extra water height in the 2nd and 3rd chambers. Thus, if you run the sump a little higher than the 6-inch minimum (e.g. 7 inches deep), you likely won't get a "waterfall" effect in the third chamber that causes bubbles to form and get sucked up by your return pump, and you'll still easily meet your 7 gallon overflow capacity requirement. This increases the amount of water that would go to your tank in the event of a clogged-overflow scenario, but only by about a gallon.

 

If you stand a second piece of egg crate up in the second chamber (lengthwise or crosswise), you can hold the macro back and while keeping a small holding area for frags or livestock if that's desired.

[Shoelace]

I forgot to tell you an option.  Some people partition off the fuge and T-off from the return pipe with a valve so they can create very low fuge flow.  I've even seen the order go skimmer/return/fuge.  I think this applies to higher flow sumps than what you want to do, but this option allows you to control the fuge flow rather than being stuck with the whole sump flow.

 

Perhaps also consider a way to get a filter sock and holder in there.

 

With your low flow, I'd probly just go with the way you have it. 

[Orion]

I calculated that you have about 9.6 gallons (max) of overflow capacity in the sump to handle return pump or power failure. You say that you only need 7 gallons so you're good there . You've also only got about 1-1/2 gallons min that the return pump will deliver to the tank in the event of a clogged overflow. I'm sure that you'll have at least that much extra capacity up in the tank, so both of your overflow scenarios seem to be covered.

 

That 2.6 gallons of extra overflow capacity figures to be about 2-1/2 inches of extra water height in the 2nd and 3rd chambers. Thus, if you run the sump a little higher than the 6-inch minimum (e.g. 7 inches deep), you likely won't get a "waterfall" effect in the third chamber that causes bubbles to form and get sucked up by your return pump, and you'll still easily meet your 7 gallon overflow capacity requirement. This increases the amount of water that would go to your tank in the event of a clogged-overflow scenario, but only by about a gallon.

 

If you stand a second piece of egg crate up in the second chamber (lengthwise or crosswise), you can hold the macro back and while keeping a small holding area for frags or livestock if that's desired.

 

This is good to hear.  Thanks for running the numbers.  Looks like I should be good with this setup then..

More questions -

 

Would it be wise to also install a check valve like this?

 

Also, what would you recommend as far as plumbing goes? PVC or flex PVC?

 

This is what I am planning on doing for the tank -

 

Overflow on the left, and return on the right side.

 

 

I forgot to tell you an option.  Some people partition off the fuge and T-off from the return pipe with a valve so they can create very low fuge flow.  I've even seen the order go skimmer/return/fuge.  I think this applies to higher flow sumps than what you want to do, but this option allows you to control the fuge flow rather than being stuck with the whole sump flow.

 

Perhaps also consider a way to get a filter sock and holder in there.

 

With your low flow, I'd probly just go with the way you have it. 

 

No filter socks here.  Just another thing to take care of  Lets just go this route as it seems to be very simple!

[Origami]

I am not personally a fan of check valves because of the dependency we often place on them to be failure-free results in problems when they do fail. (Just a personal preference.) I'd rather use a siphon break or just not put my return line so deep into the tank that it causes a major siphoning risk.

 

I like the quality and longevity of hard PVC connections, but vibration from the return pump can cause hard PVC to rattle in some cases. In my first system, I plumbed mostly with hard PVC, but terminated the overflow in a barb fitting that then mated with a piece of  flexible vinyl hose that went to the return pump. The vinyl hose acted like a shock absorber and kept the noise down. I sometimes use flex PVC connections in the same way. See below.

 

Don't underestimate the simplicity of flexible vinyl tubing for some setups. There can be more losses in such tubing, though, because the cross section can vary and kink. Also, if it's clear, you can get algae growth inside that can slow flow (but at least you can see it whereas in PVC pipe, you can't).

 

People sometimes have trouble with flexible PVC connections failing (always when you're not around), especially if the connection is under the constant stress of the weight of the hose and water in the hose. I read something once that said avoid using primer on a flex PVC connection because it substantially weakens the flex PVC joint. I had a tank that ran for 3-4 years with a bunch of flex PVC connections that I put together following this direction (no primer) and it worked fine. 

[lutz123]

Following along and learning... I will be building the same size sump, I guess with slightly different baffle sizes due to the fact that it's a 75 gallon. I will be going with a bean animal, or perhaps the new Ghost Overflow rather than the Glassholes.

[Orion]

Thank you all again so much for the info. This membership is worth every penny. I need to attend a meeting one of these days!

 

I think I'll stick with PVC piping for now. Flow should be low enough that I won't get any rattling, and the fact that PVC seems to be a bulletproof method is great. Also the return pump is DC, and controllable so I'll be able to fine tune flow.

 

As far as shutoff valves go which line should have one? Return, intake, or one on each? When changing the water, or doing maintenance it would be nice to not have the water siphon back down into the sump when I turn the return pump off.

 

 

[Shoelace]

You could do one on each, but actually I would highly recommend some union valves so you can disconnect things (to pull that pesky snail out, lol).

[dmatt56]

Ryan,

 

I have the same design sump as the pictured one.  The only difference: my egg crate is on both sides of the fuge area to keep cheato in during a power outage.  Also, I have the egg crate going from the sand base to top of tank.

 

You're welcome to stop by and look at mine if you'd like.

 

Thanks,

Matt

[Orion]

Ryan,

 

I have the same design sump as the pictured one. The only difference: my egg crate is on both sides of the fuge area to keep cheato in during a power outage. Also, I have the egg crate going from the sand base to top of tank.

 

You're welcome to stop by and look at mine if you'd like.

 

Thanks,

Matt

Thanks for the offer, Matt. I may take you up on that.

[Orion]

The diameter of the return pump's outlet is 1", but the diameter of the loc-line return kit is 3/4".  Is this an issue?

[YHSublime]

The diameter of the return pump's outlet is 1", but the diameter of the loc-line return kit is 3/4".  Is this an issue?

 

You'll have to get a bushing. Here's a thread that might help, I had similar questions.

[Orion]

Bushing it is!

[Origami]

The diameter of the return pump's outlet is 1", but the diameter of the loc-line return kit is 3/4".  Is this an issue?

To reduce friction losses, run 1" from the pump as far as you can and adapt down to 3/4 at the end.