Dosing Vinegar

[Rosco's Reefs]

I plan on trying vinegar dosing to reduce nitrates.  I have been reading Randy Farley, posts on here, etc. and wanted your opinion on a starting point.  Seems like most folks suggest starting around 15ml a day, doubling every week until nitrates approach zero.  Farley said on RC he hit 410ml before his corals got mad but that seems crazy.

 

I am asking because none of the articles say, "Roscoe, just do this..."  Your help appreciated and desired.  Thx

 

Roscoe

[John Ford]

Roscoe... Just do this

http://www.melevsreef.com/vodka_dosing.html

 

I've yet to do this but I would start at a lower dose than 15ml but that's just me. I'd rather go slow

[BowieReefer84]

15ml a day per how many gallons?  I went off the advanced reefkeeping article for vodka and did 8x as much for the vinegar. 

[Rosco's Reefs]

100 gallons, approximately.  

 

Thanks for the article John, it was excellent.  Quoting Farley, "Dosing vinegar is similar to dosing ethanol except that vodka has more carbon in it than vinegar. The ratio is about 8 times more carbon in 80 proof (40% by weight) vodka than vinegar (which is usually 5% organic by weight). For a conservative method one may use the same guidelines for dosing ethanol in the article below, except use 8 (eight) times as much vinegar as ethanol for the 40% ethanol directions:"

 

This is how I calculated the 15ml.  Besides, I don't really want to do the vodka...might get into one of those "one for you, one for me, one for you..."    

 

Thx, all

[BowieReefer84]

Ok, I would follow this chart (8x more for vinegar)

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/images/Table2-80Proof.jpg

[Rosco's Reefs]

then according to this my dose is too strong.  For 100 gallons, looks like 3.2 ml per day.  Agreed?

[BowieReefer84]

That would be your starting dose for days 1-3 of week 1, and you would raise according to the chart.

 

Get a good nitrate test like salifert so you can closely monitor your levels.  Get to undetectable then cut dose in half.

 

I used vinegar in my old biocube, and I am even using it right now in my new tank.  It drops both phosphates and nitrates.  I would still keep up on water changes.

 

Some people feel your will end up with elevated Undisolved Organics (something like that), that still need removal.  Hopefully someone will chime in on this.

[trockafella]

With carbon dosing you also need to maintain a lower alk, around 8 is ideal. If it gets to high you can start burning corals, especially SPS.

[jaddc]

 

 

Some people feel your will end up with elevated Undisolved Organics (something like that), that still need removal.  Hopefully someone will chime in on this.

 

That is a fact and they are removed by protein skimming and water changes.

 

The undissolved organics refers the to metabolite by-products produced by the bacteria and also the bacteria cells themselves. They would generally foul the water if left unchecked over a long period of time.

 

Fortunately, most protein skimmers work wonders to remove it. A more natural way to remove excess bacteria (and thus their metabolites) is to have an animal that eats pelagic bacteria (like a sponge). 

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

With carbon dosing you also need to maintain a lower alk, around 8 is ideal. If it gets to high you can start burning corals, especially SPS.

Yup, make sure everything is at the levels you want before you start. Unfortunately I do not have any good advice for you because my experience was bad, and I took it very slowly... But every tank is different, and there were other factors that contributed to my bad experience.

[s2nhle]

Can we dose voka and vinegar on the same day?

[Marc Weaver]

You sure can, many reefers dose a combination of both daily.  Vinegar seems to help with cyano, as I experienced myself.  I transitioned over from all vodka to all vinegar, mixing the two for a month, and all my cyano disappeared.

[scott711]

if I remember correctly, I dose between 70-80 ml of vinegar a day in my 200 gallon system.  From my experience, the lower alk is not as important as maintaining a stable alkalinity level in your tank.  When I started dosing my alk was in the 7-8 range, but since then it has crepted up to the 8-9 range and my sps are doing more than fine.

[s2nhle]

I have mix vinegar with kalk for my auto top off. Do I still apply the same amount as suggested or different amount?

[NateCamReef]

Are "undissolved organics" something that you could see floating around in your water? I have been carbon dosing and have a HUGE problem with little dust like particles floating around. While my skimmer pulls out the nastiest junk ever, it is very under rated for my 180g. 

[jaddc]

Those are probably particulates. 

 

Are "undissolved organics" something that you could see floating around in your water? I have been carbon dosing and have a HUGE problem with little dust like particles floating around. While my skimmer pulls out the nastiest junk ever, it is very under rated for my 180g. 

[pettyrd]

This is interesting. I have never dosed vinegar or vodka.... Is this common now in the hobby?

Edited September 30, 2013 by pettyrd

[BowieReefer84]

This is interesting. I have never dosed vinegar or vodka.... Is this common now in the hobby?

No, I wouldn't say common.  I bet it's prob around 5% (random guess).

[s2nhle]

I have mix vinegar with kalk for my auto top off. Do I still apply the same amount as suggested or different amount?

any information on this. Thanks,

[trockafella]

This is interesting. I have never dosed vinegar or vodka.... Is this common now in the hobby?

Its just another form of carbon dosing, which seems to be rising in popularity a bit. There are also commercial products that do the same thing, as well things like biopellets. I would agree with mike, 5% or so sounds about right. There are also risks to doing it as well..

[BowieReefer84]

Biggest risk imo is that if you have a heavy livestock load and dose too much at a time it will drop your PH.  This will have a negative impact on corals and fish with PH swings every day. 

 

I put it on a doser to only add 1ml at a time.  That is in a small tank of about 20gal volume.  I wouldn't add more that 1ml/20gal at a single time.

[Neto]

IMO you need a dosing pump that can be adjusted by the ml if you plan on going this route. I have lost many corals because i overdosed... Once you see the water cristal clear, stop dosing!!!!

[Marc Weaver]

+1.  I have killed a few as well from overdosing.  Did anyone else lose all their zoanthids?  I did on 2 separate occasions after a month of carbon dosing.