Currently have a ground probe on outlet... do I still need to upgrade it to GFCI?

[Curtis Scott]

After a long delay, I finally reached out to an electrician to come over and check out my set up and provide an estimate on installing a GFCI outlet. I have read some very scary post and found out my ground probe* might not be enough to prevent electrocution.

 

In the beginning I was too worried about having a GFCI installed and it tripping and turning everything off while I'm away. It's sort of like a double edged sword to me.  What is your guys' opinion on the subject?

 

I have a full Apex Energy Bar 8 and a full American DJ strip (http://www.amazon.com/American-Pc-100A-Mount-Power-Switcher/dp/B0002GL50Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377549956&sr=8-1&keywords=american+DJ+strip) All on a single outlet.

 

Do you think one of these work, if I plugged these two full strips in to it? - http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-4-Outlet-6-Feet-Workshop/dp/B002RN13UY or am I better off getting the GFCI outlet installed?

 

* The ground probe was set up because I noticed stray voltage after install some equipment and was told the probe would fix that issue, which it does.

 

 

 

 

[Origami]

  What is your guys' opinion on the subject?

 

A GFCI can save your bacon. Some people run some of their tank on a GFCI and other parts not. All of the (5) circuits in my fish room are GFCI protected.

 

Installing a GFCI into an existing outlet is an easy DIY task in most cases.

[AlanM]

Here's an article I believe is good about GFCI and ground probes and such:

 

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/electricity-for-the-reefer.aspx

[Curtis Scott]

A GFCI can save your bacon. Some people run some of their tank on a GFCI and other parts not. All of the (5) circuits in my fish room are GFCI protected.

 

Installing a GFCI into an existing outlet is an easy DIY task in most cases.

Tom, do you use a ground probe as well?

 

Here's an article I believe is good about GFCI and ground probes and such:

 

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/electricity-for-the-reefer.aspx

 

Great article, thanks.

 

Even though I have read stuff online that contradicts what he is saying, this part sounds right to me and pretty much sums it up:

 

"Example #4: A powerhead in the tank develops a hole in the insulation of the HOT wire. The powerhead is plugged into a GFCI and there IS a grounding probe. As soon as the HOT wire is exposed, current will begin to flow through the tank water to the grounding probe. The GFCI will register this leak and trip.

There are plenty of other scenarios to look at. What happens when both the HOT and NEUTRAL (or ground) of a piece of equipment are both exposed underwater? With or without a GFCI, current will flow locally from the HOT to the NEUTRAL (or ground).  The GFCI (if in place) will NOT trip because there is no current imbalance. The tanks inhabitants will not likely be aware of the current flow either. Placing a hand in the tank could provide a nasty shock! A grounding probe in conjunction with a GFCI would prevent this by causing the current to flow to the probe, and thus tripping the GFCI. The same holds true if two different pieces of equipment develop small leaks, one HOT and the other Neutral. The probe and GFCI combination would allow current to flow to the probe, subsequently causing the GFCI to trip.

Using a ground probe without GFCI protection on all of the submerged (or exposed) equipment creates a dangerous situation for the tank's inhabitants and humans exposed to that tank. A ground probe must always be used with GFCI protection!"

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I plan to run this info by the electrician and have him install an additional GFCI outlet to split the load (if possible). 

Thanks guys!

[Djplus1]

Provided you have a screw driver, wire snips and a wire snipper (and aren't color blind!) you can install a GFCI yourself for the cost of the outlet (maybe $10). There is no reason to pay an electrician $100 to do this. I'm not an electrician and I have replaced every single outlet and light switch in my house (previous owners painted over EVERYTHING) with only one outlet giving me any issue at all that was on two circuits.

[Curtis Scott]

Provided you have a screw driver, wire snips and a wire snipper (and aren't color blind!) you can install a GFCI yourself for the cost of the outlet (maybe $10). There is no reason to pay an electrician $100 to do this. I'm not an electrician and I have replaced every single outlet and light switch in my house (previous owners painted over EVERYTHING) with only one outlet giving me any issue at all that was on two circuits.

If it was just switching out the single outlet I'd give it a shot, but I am going to get an additional outlet ran (hopefully) and that way I can split the load on that single outlet.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Curtis Scott

[Djplus1]

If it was just switching out the single outlet I'd give it a shot, but I am going to get an additional outlet ran (hopefully) and that way I can split the load on that single outlet.

Where do you want the second outlet? If its basically next to the other, just extend the wires from the first gfci to the second one. All you need to do is cut a hole in the wall and put it in a box.

[Curtis Scott]

Where do you want the second outlet? If its basically next to the other, just extend the wires from the first gfci to the second one. All you need to do is cut a hole in the wall and put it in a box.

 

If it's right next to the other one, can they both still be separate GFCI outlets? This way I can have some equipment on one and some on the other?

[Origami]

Tom, do you use a ground probe as well?

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I plan to run this info by the electrician and have him install an additional GFCI outlet to split the load (if possible). 

 

Yes.

 

If it's right next to the other one, can they both still be separate GFCI outlets? This way I can have some equipment on one and some on the other?

Yes. There are a couple of ways to wire a GFCI outlet. Both are documented in the insert that comes in the box. One way protects all "downstream" outlets as GFCI protected. The other way is bypasses downstream GFCI protection. If you wired two outlets in this "bypass" mode or the first one in bypass and the second outlet the other way, the GFCI protection on each would be separate. That is, the first one could trip without interrupting the downstream devices. However, if (back at the breaker panel) the breaker tripped on the circuit, then all outlets on that circuit (including both GFCI outlets) would go dead.

[Coral Hind]

I recommend a GFCI for heaters and internal pumps. A grounding probe inside the sump is a must have to provide a path that has less resistance than you.

 

I prefer to have multiple GFCI's, like one for each item so only that item loses power. I use the individual cord cap types like this. I have even bought $1 hair dryers at yard sales just to cut off the GFCI cords to use. Put a female cord cap onto it and you have a cost effective single item GFCI.

 

 

 

[Coral Hind]

If buying the individual cord cap or adapter GFCI that I mentioned above make sure it is an "automaitc reset" type so when the power goes out and comes back on, the circuit stays energized. The "manual reset" will require you to push the button each time. Those types are for saws or equipment that could be dangerous if power is restored and no one is around or expecting it.

[Curtis Scott]

Yes.

 

Yes. There are a couple of ways to wire a GFCI outlet. Both are documented in the insert that comes in the box. One way protects all "downstream" outlets as GFCI protected. The other way is bypasses downstream GFCI protection. If you wired two outlets in this "bypass" mode or the first one in bypass and the second outlet the other way, the GFCI protection on each would be separate. That is, the first one could trip without interrupting the downstream devices. However, if (back at the breaker panel) the breaker tripped on the circuit, then all outlets on that circuit (including both GFCI outlets) would go dead.

 

Thanks

 

I recommend a GFCI for heaters and internal pumps. A grounding probe inside the sump is a must have to provide a path that has less resistance than you.

 

I prefer to have multiple GFCI's, like one for each item so only that item loses power. I use the individual cord cap types like this. I have even bought $1 hair dryers at yard sales just to cut off the GFCI cords to use. Put a female cord cap onto it and you have a cost effective single item GFCI.

 

 

These look like they would be perfect for for single item GFCI. Would these work also? - http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-16693-120-Volt-Automatic-Compliant/dp/B0037NXKY0/ref=pd_cp_hi_0

 

Do you think I could just plug these into my power strip (8 of them) and plug the power strip into the regular outlet? Then all 8 would be on there own GFCI right?

 

Thanks!

[Curtis Scott]

Or even better yet, this one has 3 with auto reset. http://www.amazon.com/Tower-Manufacturing-30338024-Length-In-Line/dp/B001DTDTKK/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_9

[bqq100]

I remember reading a thread on RC debating GFCI vs grounding probe vs both.  The example i remember reading was bad lighting fixture + grounding probe + no GFCI.  If the lighting fixture has something wrong with the wiring and the metal case becomes electrified, and you happen to lean against it while working in the tank, there is now a path from light -> you -> tank -> grounding probe.  Without a GFCI that could spell trouble.  

 

It is probably low risk, and only applies to items outside of the tank, but something to consider.  

[Coral Hind]

Or even better yet, this one has 3 with auto reset. http://www.amazon.com/Tower-Manufacturing-30338024-Length-In-Line/dp/B001DTDTKK/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_9

That's a good item right there and appears to have the automatic reset.

 

These look like they would be perfect for for single item GFCI. Would these work also?

Do you think I could just plug these into my power strip (8 of them) and plug the power strip into the regular outlet? Then all 8 would be on there own GFCI right?

 

Yes, those work too and it costs more to do it so everything is individual but it is nice when only the one heater that is faulty trips and not everything on the power strip. You do not have to cut off the cord end as you can add a female plug and wire to that adapter. I use old extension cords and replace the male end with the GFCI adapter.

[Curtis Scott]

That's a good item right there and appears to have the automatic reset.

 

Yes, those work too and it costs more to do it so everything is individual but it is nice when only the one heater that is faulty trips and not everything on the power strip. You do not have to cut off the cord end as you can add a female plug and wire to that adapter. I use old extension cords and replace the male end with the GFCI adapter.

 

Awesome, thank you!

[Coral Hind]

Buying a cheap $9 hair dryer and cutting off the GFCI and adding a female adapter to the end is a low cost alternative for a simple two wire system.

 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Style-by-Revlon-1875-Watt-Dryer/14551419?findingMethod=rr#Specifications

[Djplus1]

Buying a cheap $9 hair dryer and cutting off the GFCI and adding a female adapter to the end is a low cost alternative for a simple two wire system.

 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Style-by-Revlon-1875-Watt-Dryer/14551419?findingMethod=rr#Specifications

This is actually one thing I have never even considered! I am sure to put this to use in the future.

[CaptainRon]

Pure Genius! Love the idea of snagging hair dryers from a yard sale - bet you could get them for a few bucks and much cheaper than the plugs.

[Curtis Scott]

I got my cord covers in today and made the first one. You can check out these photos to see what I did:

 

http://wamas.org/forums/gallery/album/1293-gfci-setup/

 

In the last couple of photos I show how I plan to connect these to the Apex Energy Bar 8, using a 1' extension cord (the same kind I made the female plug/wire from. 

 

My only concern is the warning and caution part of the directions that state:

" Plug this device directly into and outlet. DO NOT plug it into an extension cord. "

 

Do you guys think there would be any safety issue with setting them up like I show in the last two photos? Please advise.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Curtis Scott

[Djplus1]

I don't see what the problem would be, as people often plug one whole power strip into another power strip all the time. Not saying it's safe of course, but you're just adding a GFCI to the plug, not 10 additional items.

[Coral Hind]

I think the way you have it pictured is fine.

[Curtis Scott]

I don't see what the problem would be, as people often plug one whole power strip into another power strip all the time. Not saying it's safe of course, but you're just adding a GFCI to the plug, not 10 additional items.

Very good point.

 

I think the way you have it pictured is fine.

Cool.

 

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Thanks guys!

Edited August 30, 2013 by Curtis Scott

[Jason Rhoads]

This is a great thread! Thanks for the idea, and pics about individual GFCIs I am going to work on a few myself