Lanthanum Chloride

[nbgen12]

Anyone know where I can get my hands on lanthanum chloride around the northern va area or online?

 

 

 

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[scott711]

pool supply store.

[nbgen12]

I just went into Leslie's pool supply and asked about the stuff, and they were pretty clueless.

 

Is there a non-scientific name it goes by that non-reefers can understand?

 

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[Origami]

It's a phosphate remover. It comes in a jug. I can't remember the name, but it's common. They'll almost certainly have it on the shelf.

[Origami]

SeaKlear is one common product.

[scott711]

SeaKlear is one common product.

 

that is it

 

make sure you know how to use it.

[nbgen12]

The stuff im looking at is called Phosfree and it says it is made out of lanthanum compounds....i just want to make sure this product is safe to use in the aquarium.

 

I would grab SeaKlear if i could find it since that what you guys know is safe....

 

I was planning on dripping it into my felt filter socks....will this work out ok?

 

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Edited May 1, 2013 by nbgen12

[Origami]

Yes, it's fine. Like Scott said, make sure that you know how to use it. There was something about it in Coral Magazine a few years ago, I believe. The filter sock approach is common.

[nbgen12]

Thanks Tom. I will need to do some more reading before using it, but I plan in diluting it quite a bit and take it slow at first and see how things respond.

 

I found that article and its got some great info....

 

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[Origami]

Daniel Knop was the author of that article, I think. He writes a lot of good stuff. I have a clam book that he did, too.

 

Ah, here it is should others want to read it.

 

Be sure to shake the container well before using it. I think that the lanthanum stuff settles to the bottom.

[Sharkey18]

I'm looking for it to! Let me know what you find.

[wade]

The Seakleer bottle requires a 1:10000 dilution I believe. Put that into context in a small reef tank means you use very little if dosing by the instructions for a pool. I have some myself, but I've only ever used it to age my old dry rock, so I wasn't concerned about the dosing.

[nbgen12]

I'm looking for it to! Let me know what you find.

 

I went to Leslie's Pool Supply in Vienna, VA and they carry the product PhosFree which is a combination of Lanthanum Carbonate and Lanthanum Sulfate if my internet searching is correct. I have read many pool supply stores no longer carry SeaKlear but PhosFree instead. A bunch of people have been using it with success, it is just more diluted than the SeaKlear which is what people were previously using

The Seakleer bottle requires a 1:10000 dilution I believe. Put that into context in a small reef tank means you use very little if dosing by the instructions for a pool. I have some myself, but I've only ever used it to age my old dry rock, so I wasn't concerned about the dosing.

 

It is definitely important to dilute it heavily. From what I have read, PhosFree is about 5x more diluted than the SeaKlear so it does not need quite as much rodi water mixed in, but obviously still needs a lot.

 

 

I need to figure out where I can get these 10 micron filter socks they talk about on the RC thread on this topic...

[DaveS]

Post up where you find the socks and other things. I suspect there are a group of people here who would go in on a GB to assemble a Lanthanum Chloride "kit".

[nbgen12]

Post up where you find the socks and other things. I suspect there are a group of people here who would go in on a GB to assemble a Lanthanum Chloride "kit".

 

Definitely a good idea, I'll make sure to post where to get things

 

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Edited May 2, 2013 by nbgen12

[surf&turf]

A friend of mine and Marc's tried this, you can read his story..http://www.extremereefers.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=481

[Marc Weaver]

I buy all my filter socks here:

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/9316t111

[Marc Weaver]

Based on what I have experienced and read, lanthanum is not a viable long-term replacement for GFO. It will not lower phosphate to low levels (below .07) reliably and consistently. It's best usage is to lower high phosphates to manageable levels, then stop and use GFO.

 

I have tried it before, it works well for lowering phosphates below .1 if they are higher. I dosed it right into the sump of my tank when I first started it to combat extremely high phosphates. There were only a few random corals and some fish that were not affected by the dosing. Apparently this was not a good idea because of the precipitate that lands everywhere. I didn't see any negative effects, but I stopped when I realized I was not going to get any lower than .06-.08 and switched to GFO.

 

I used Ultralife Liguid Phosphate Remover for reef tanks. That little bottle goes an EXTREMELY long way. Only a few drops per day were all I needed and it only took around a week. I still have 90% of it left, and that was on a 150 gallon tank with a 55 gallon sump.

[BowieReefer84]

Is this stuff safe to mail? I have a bunch... Never used it.

 

Good place for filter bags:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=%2Bfilter+%2Bbag&i=filterbags

Edited May 2, 2013 by BowieReefer84

[scott711]

you have to make sure you use filter bags in the 25 micron range. I bought several bags to use, but read that it can hurt clams and never ended up using them. Filter socks in that micron range clog very quickly and as everyone has mentioned a little goes a long way. I believe I read someone was using the same bottle they bought over 2 years ago. I can look to see where I bought them from.

[basser9]

A aqua-c plus some big 10/1 micron bags works great.

The larger aqua-c have a nice mixing chamber that are perfect

for LC.

You want to get big long bags for dosing LG the BIODIESEL site

has them as low as .5 microns so nothing in the reef will be affected.

[Sharkey18]

I have ordered lanthanum chloride from two different sources. Ill let you know when I receive it!

[roni]

Long thread on reefcentral where people discuss experiences, dosing, and methodology:

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1474839&page=3

Where to do get the filters (10 micron is what you want):

http://utahbiodieselsupply.com/bagfilters.php#bagfelt

This is the stuff off amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017SV6HU/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Nice summary of what to do simply:

"place the 10 micron socks under aquarium drain returns. Dose LaCl3 into the draining water or into the socks. Use your skimmer as "cleanup" i.e. right after dosing...to help remove whatever makes it through your 10 micron filters. To maximize results couple a LaCl3 treatment with a wet skim water change.

 

You can make a LaCl3 treatment as complicated as you want but the bottom line basics should be adhered to. Do not dose too much or too quickly. Don't cloud up the water. Monitor PO4 with a low range test kit and watch alkalinity. Go slowly."

This is not something you should do without doing a fair amount of reading. Overdosed it can be pretty caustic and given the dilutions involved, it's pretty easy to do. I believe there is an aquarium product version, which is heavily diluted, called Phos-E. There are people who have developed continuous reactors, usually a couple of brs or tlf reactors daisy chained but I personally wouldn't trust something like this going continuously.

 

 

[basser9]

The problem comes into play in my experience with using micron bags that are not

down to 1micron.

A minimum of 2 bags is the best approach slip a 10micron bag into a 1micron bag

this will catch any residue.

Run a flow from a MJ900 type pump into a cup inside the bags drip the LC into the cup;

A cup inside the micron bag helps the reaction before it hits the socks.

PHOSFREE works great i use 20ml to a liter.

You can put a 100 micron bag inside the 10/1 to make it last longer and you can add

simple floss into the 100micron bag which really works well.

For some reason people dont realize that putting2/ 3 micron bags back to back

is the way to go......simple solution .

LC works great with no real downfall until you get to lower levels like .05 then you must

dose very slow and make sure you have a multiple bag setup to catch any.

It can remove some alk once you get to lower levels especially if dosed quick.

I use bags from the BIODIESEL site you can order different micron sizes and get

the multy special price as long as the are the same bags.

I order 100/10/1micron bags .........This makes a great 3 bags setup.

Edited May 4, 2013 by basser9

[Sharkey18]

Received my Lanthanum Chloride today.

 

4oz. bottle of agent green. Ordered from Big Als on line. Still waiting on 10 micron filter socks.

 

My phosphates are at .56. Hoping to use LC temporarily then switching to GFO.