Big Country February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 Looking into buying a Neptune Apex because it's the newer model than my ACIII. I have two DC8's on my ACIII. What can I say I like new toys. I control my cooling fans, heaters, lights, and CO2 regulator solenoid currently. Most of the other outlets are just on all the time and have various pumps and kalk stirrer plugged into them, not controlling anything. I just can't really find a key answer to "What does an Apex do, that I would actually use, that my ACIII doesn't already do for me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 Can you run one system for multiple tanks? I was pointed to the MACNA apex youtube videos, lots of good information there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 Some thoughts in no particular order: It has a mode where you get finer timing resolution. The AC-III can time events with 1-minute resolution. I believe the Apex can maybe take that down to the second (I've not used it in that mode, so I'm not 100% sure on what the finer resolution is.) That may allow for finer control of dosing pumps. Also, the Apex has built-in variable voltage outputs that can be used to drive dimmable lighting. The interface allows for more expansion than the AC-III. The EB8 is like a DC8 except that it's smarter. If it loses communication with the base unit, the outlets on the EB8 can be programmed to fall back to a defined state rather than staying in their last state. Also, current through each EB8 is measured and logged. The Apex is backward compatible with many of the old AC-III peripherals (through the legacy interface). This means it can still use your old EB8's if you want, reducing initial acquisition cost. The web server page on the Apex is configurable and more modern looking. The Apex has programming "templates" for different types of outlet functions. This can make it easier to set the unit up for newbies. That is, you don't have to know Neptune's programming language. However, there's an advanced mode where you can use the programming language (on a per-outlet basis) if you want. Old AC-III users may find it familiar that way. The CPU/Control unit is separate from the Control Interface (the Display unit) on the Apex. This means that you can put the Display right in the room and not have a bunch of ugly cables hanging from it. (There's one thin cable that connects the display and the CPU/Control unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 Can you run one system for multiple tanks? I was pointed to the MACNA apex youtube videos, lots of good information there... Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 Yes. I was asking the OP if that is possible with the ACIII, is that the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 I was asking the OP if that is possible with the ACIII, is that the answer? Possibly 2 tanks with the ACIII in separate locations if you use their expansion module (PX1000). This gives you another temperature and set of probes. I can't recall if you can add even more PX1000's to support more tanks, though. My gut feeling is that you're limited that way on the ACIII. There's also a limit to the number of DC8's that you can put on one ACIII. It's something like 8 maybe (which gives a lot of outlets, still). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 Possibly 2 tanks with the ACIII in separate locations if you use their expansion module (PX1000). This gives you another temperature and set of probes. I can't recall if you can add even more PX1000's to support more tanks, though. My gut feeling is that you're limited that way on the ACIII. There's also a limit to the number of DC8's that you can put on one ACIII. It's something like 8 maybe (which gives a lot of outlets, still). I just can't really find a key answer to "What does an Apex do, that I would actually use, that my ACIII doesn't already do for me?" Bam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott711 February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 The Apex can do ramp up/down of LED lights. It can also control things in seconds (as Tom said). You can add modules to it to control vortechs. You can create "dummy" outlets or timers for use with "if" statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott711 February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 You can also configure it for email and texting. If a certain condition exists it will send you an alert. Also, with the Virtual "dummy" outlets, that give you the ability to do a lot of other things. For instance, I have a doorbell that I push if I want my mixing pump to turn on. It normally turns on once an hour, but if I press this button it will turn on for 60 minutes and then resume its' normal schedule again. They also just came out with a leak detector that can hook to the apex if you want to do something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country February 21, 2013 Author Share February 21, 2013 So to get all these wonderful things to work you have to buy EB8's? The DC8's that I have 3 of already will work but they won't work any different than the do now on the ACIII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 The DC8's are backward compatible. They don't offer all of the features of an EB8, however. These features include: a) Taking on the default programmed state if communication with the Apex is lost, and b) power/current monitoring. The new EB8's are smart devices. The older DC8's are "dumb" devices. The Apex CAN control DC8's and many other ACIII peripherals. If you use the DC8's on an Apex, you'll still have time control at the fine-grained level. That is a feature of the Apex, not the DC8. You'll still be able to turn outlets on and off, just like you did before. If you take a look at the Apex manual that's posted on the Neptune site, you'll find that the beginning of the book has a nice discussion of some of the capabilities of the different Apex versions. It's very well illustrated and is a much better manual (having been actually written by a hobbyist) than the ACIII ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country February 21, 2013 Author Share February 21, 2013 Reality is I don't need control of outlets to the second since I don't use any dosing pumps. If power goes out the heaters go off so I don't worry about that frying my tank. The only thing I really worry about now is my CO2 solenoid since I don't know what happens when the power goes out. My vortech is set on reef crest and set it and forget it. I plan on getting some of the D120's to try but figure those will be pretty set it and forget it also. The one thing that scared me recently was when a heater plugged into my A level DC8 popped the DC8's breaker, my ACIII lost contact with the B level, if the titanium heater was plugged into the B level and on at the time it would continue heating, not sure if it has an internal thermostat or not to shut it off. The ACIII is programmed to turn on fans and turn off lights based on temperature but since it lost contact, it lost control. Will the EB8's solve this problem? Right now to solve the possible problems I can think of I make sure the titanium heater and the CO2 solenoid are both plugged into A level where if the ACIII has power it will have control unless the breaker pops which would turn them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 CO2 solenoids normally close when power is lost. You're safer that way. I moved from an ACIII to an Apex when I wanted dimming on my lights. The D120's are manual in that regard (if I recall - I have two), so it's not a reason to go with an Apex in itself. I struggled with the same question when I (after a couple of years or so) went with the Apex (recently). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 Charles, set your heaters to a couple of degrees above your nominal tank temperature. This keeps the thermostat closed for control by the ACIII under normal circumstances, but if communications are interrupted, then the thermostat in the heater limits the top end of the tank temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve175 February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 Charles: the key benefit I find in the Apex is the internet capability which I don't remember the ACIII having (or if it had it, I wasn't aware of it at the time and hadn't set it up). If any of my (7) EB4s or (3) EB8s lose power, I get an e-mail and a text warning through the cell. Same thing if my pH (on either my tank or Ca reactor [CO2 tank empty]), temp, or Orp fall out of ranges I have set. I have an app on the iphone that I can check my parameters anywhere in the world and toggle any outlet (I use the phone to change the outlets at home when working on the tank instead of the display unit as it is much faster). As above, you can program default settings for each outlet if communication is lost so you'd have no worries about your heater regardless of into which outlet it is plugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 21, 2013 Share February 21, 2013 ^^The ACIII can be controlled via the Internet (by phone or by computer browser). It also has alarms so that can send you a text message or an email (or both). There's only a single alarm on the ACIII, but the message that it sends has all of the parameters and outlet states, so you can see what triggered the message. I did both when I had my AC-III and I know that others still using the AC-III (for example, Flowerseller) still has his send him a daily text message to report the status of his tank (just as a sanity check). @Steve: There are two phone apps that control the ACIII. One is made specifically for the IPhone (it's got a nice interface). The other was made by a hobbyist (HeneryH) at ReefCentral specifically for the Apex. It also happened to be able to control the ACIII. Most recently, Neptune has released an Apex controller for both IOS and Android. It's in Beta now and can be downloaded from either marketplace. I'm testing it on Android now. I don't know if it's compatible with the ACIIIl, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country February 22, 2013 Author Share February 22, 2013 Charles, set your heaters to a couple of degrees above your nominal tank temperature. This keeps the thermostat closed for control by the ACIII under normal circumstances, but if communications are interrupted, then the thermostat in the heater limits the top end of the tank temperature. My primary heater is a finnex 500w titanium heater, it's just a heater tube with a cord, it doesn't have a thermostat on it. My other heater is a Ebo and I have that thermostat set at 80 so it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 22, 2013 Share February 22, 2013 My primary heater is a finnex 500w titanium heater, it's just a heater tube with a cord, it doesn't have a thermostat on it. My other heater is a Ebo and I have that thermostat set at 80 so it's fine. Then you're right - you have a risk with the Finnex. If the outlet were latched on or communications with the DC8 was interrupted, then that heater would not shut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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