John February 6, 2013 Share February 6, 2013 Cool, and on the return side (loc-line side) you could also use a few elbows to raise it up so the back syphon is not as great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 6, 2013 Author Share February 6, 2013 No you can use something like . Nice and easy to adjust. Other option would be a a float valve. So if water goes the wrong way it closes. I use both to be cautious. This would be an effective system instead of the elbows, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der ABT February 6, 2013 Share February 6, 2013 another choice is an external coast to coast, im going to a glass shop this week and cound give you a better idea on cost of the panes then....you could have someone make a slim internal overflow box (easier to set your water height that way and good for surface skimming) or do it the easy way, just use elbows (my 90 does it this way, two drains with some screen protecting them) or the glass holes to cover it, or talk to one of the local acrylic people and get a box made specifically for those holes (just make sure they are deep enough to remove the bulk heads in case you ever need to replace them. im going with the external overflow (look at my build thread and you will see a few others posted examples)....drilled 3 holes that will let water in and the external overflow will be a herbie style.....technically coulda drilled less holes but its nice to hvae the option to not go external overflow box if i decide not to. if you dont want a return line going over the top then use one hole for that...personally i like it going over the top because its REALLY easy to gauruntee a syphon break so you dont flood your sump when the power goes out (again what i have on my 90 is 2 returns over the back) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Rhoads February 6, 2013 Share February 6, 2013 I agree, I drilled my 100g and did not drill for the return because it can just as easily run over the top. I will snap some pictures tonight of what I did for overflows and return and post them here for you. I think the crux of this is that we have given you too many options Take some time looking at images on the net and see what you want to do (re: using both holes for overflows, or one for a return). In the end it will be about personal preference because there are many many ways to skin a cat when it comes to this hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 6, 2013 Author Share February 6, 2013 I think the crux of this is that we have given you too many options Take some time looking at images on the net and see what you want to do (re: using both holes for overflows, or one for a return). In the end it will be about personal preference because there are many many ways to skin a cat when it comes to this hobby. Lot of choices. I just want to understand one fully and run with it! There are indeed 100 ways to skin a cat in this hobby! I like the idea of the locktight being on my return with a ball vaulve cutoff, and an overflow box on the other hole. No need to add or subtract, just using what's there. That seems to be the best way IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der ABT February 6, 2013 Share February 6, 2013 one thing to think about, if your 1 pipe gets clogged...... had it happen to my 90g...luckily the other hole was able to uptake the slack at full syphon and my wife caught it and called when she heard the funny noises...had her turn off the return pump... if the return had been going stronger it wouldnt have mattered cause it would have outflowed the 1 pipe still draining but i got lucky...first and only time its happened but it did happen. ball valve only works if you are there....if power goes out it will syphon back all it can..if yuo plan for this no worries but keep it in mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Aquaria February 6, 2013 Share February 6, 2013 (edited) this is a headache waiting to happen. you will need to put put a T at the end of the bulkhead, on the top, put a cap with a hole drilled in it... if you don't do this, you will get constant, loud, noisy, annoying gurgling noises. Edited February 6, 2013 by tekken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 7, 2013 Author Share February 7, 2013 one thing to think about, if your 1 pipe gets clogged...... had it happen to my 90g...luckily the other hole was able to uptake the slack at full syphon and my wife caught it and called when she heard the funny noises...had her turn off the return pump... if the return had been going stronger it wouldnt have mattered cause it would have outflowed the 1 pipe still draining but i got lucky...first and only time its happened but it did happen. ball valve only works if you are there....if power goes out it will syphon back all it can..if yuo plan for this no worries but keep it in mind... Good to know, thanks! this is a headache waiting to happen. you will need to put put a T at the end of the bulkhead, on the top, put a cap with a hole drilled in it... if you don't do this, you will get constant, loud, noisy, annoying gurgling noises. Thanks! I'll switch it out when I start plumbing. I'll probably give you guys a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Aquaria February 7, 2013 Share February 7, 2013 Good to know, thanks! Thanks! I'll switch it out when I start plumbing. I'll probably give you guys a call. Please do. i realize that the initial thought of plumbing can be confusing, but once you understand the concept and strategies, it's not difficult. Your benefit and wisdom is that you asked questions... unlike others (myself included when I first started). Learn from all of our mistakes so that you can get it right the first time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fry_school101 February 7, 2013 Share February 7, 2013 one thing to think about, if your 1 pipe gets clogged...... had it happen to my 90g...luckily the other hole was able to uptake the slack at full syphon and my wife caught it and called when she heard the funny noises...had her turn off the return pump... if the return had been going stronger it wouldnt have mattered cause it would have outflowed the 1 pipe still draining but i got lucky...first and only time its happened but it did happen. ball valve only works if you are there....if power goes out it will syphon back all it can..if yuo plan for this no worries but keep it in mind... This is good advice. Only one pipe is a time bomb waiting to go off. I posted this a couple days ago responding a similar question. You can do a completely silent setup with two drains. If you have holes that are two different sizes, the SMALL hole is your primary drain and is used for the siphon. The large hole gets the overflow box or upturned elbow. The third hole for the return or over the top is up to your personal preference. Also, use a gate valve instead of a ball valve.The extra control is worth the couple of dollars extra it will cost. Here is a link to my other post with pictures. http://wamas.org/forums/topic/54969-beananimal-setup/#entry466093 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Rhoads February 7, 2013 Share February 7, 2013 Here is what I am doing for plumbing: Return over the top. This is sch 40 PVC painted with Krylon black spray paint, and 3/4" Loc-Line: Right side returns. Two drilled holes combined into one downpipe. Flow controlled with 1" true union ball valve. Left side returns, sorry for the bad pic, this is up against a wall and I didn't feel like moving the entire tank. Two 1" returns with true union fittings to facilitate cleaning/maintenance. These will drain into a compartmented refugium in my sump (feeding two compartments growing two types of macro). Honestly from a distance you hardly notice the return over the top of the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 7, 2013 Author Share February 7, 2013 This is good advice. Only one pipe is a time bomb waiting to go off. I posted this a couple days ago responding a similar question. You can do a completely silent setup with two drains. If you have holes that are two different sizes, the SMALL hole is your primary drain and is used for the siphon. The large hole gets the overflow box or upturned elbow. The third hole for the return or over the top is up to your personal preference. Also, use a gate valve instead of a ball valve.The extra control is worth the couple of dollars extra it will cost. Here is a link to my other post with pictures. http://wamas.org/for...up/#entry466093 Thanks for that diagram, helps a lot. Here is what I am doing for plumbing: Return over the top. This is sch 40 PVC painted with Krylon black spray paint, and 3/4" Loc-Line: Right side returns. Two drilled holes combined into one downpipe. Flow controlled with 1" true union ball valve. Left side returns, sorry for the bad pic, this is up against a wall and I didn't feel like moving the entire tank. Two 1" returns with true union fittings to facilitate cleaning/maintenance. These will drain into a compartmented refugium in my sump (feeding two compartments growing two types of macro). Honestly from a distance you hardly notice the return over the top of the tank. Those pictures are great, really help me get a clear picture. Do you have a drilled hole in the caps on your drain lines? Also what I'm trying to wrap my mind around is that I've got two holes on either end of the tank. It's great when you can drain both off one overflow box, or is a coast to coast an overflow box that covers the whole back of the tank? Even, I might just hop on a build with you, I'm on a much smaller scale, but same concept! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Rhoads February 7, 2013 Share February 7, 2013 You are right on, a coast to coast is basically one large overflow box that covers the entire length of the tank. My tank is 60" long so I am using two overflow boxes. here is the right side setup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 7, 2013 Author Share February 7, 2013 So here is what's starting to make sense to me. I run a coast to coast over my two holes in the back, and then from the looks of it, I can just run my return over the C to C... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Rhoads February 7, 2013 Share February 7, 2013 So here is what's starting to make sense to me. I run a coast to coast over my two holes in the back, and then from the looks of it, I can just run my return over the C to C... Yeah, that would be a good setup. Will you use both drilled holes as returns? I forgot to answer your question about the caps. No, I do not have holes drilled in them. I have something similar running now without holes and I wont drill these unless I need to. With the caps not being cemented in I have the option of drilling if they get noisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fry_school101 February 7, 2013 Share February 7, 2013 This is not safe. You have two drains necking down into one pipe. What happens if the pipe blocks where they come together? Also, the valve dialing them down is reducing the capacity of both drains. You want two drains capable of handling the FULL amount of overflow independently. You need to dial back the lower pipe so it just barely fills to the upper one. It will be silent then. No air bubbles or special caps to fight with. The diagram in my other post is not relevant. That was for a question about not using an internal overflow. The picture of my QT tank is what I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der ABT February 7, 2013 Share February 7, 2013 agree that is asking for trouble...no telling where the clog will happen...intake or in the pipe....good friend was having issues with his return pump he thought...turned out to be a hermit that was about 16 inches into his overflow that got caught by a 45 joint. i woulda run 2 pipes next to each other..... if your going herbie you will want a valve on it, you will want a gate valve though for fine tuning. Coast to coast is nice for surface skimming, is it needed no. i think they look nice you may think they look bulky. 2 overflow boxes work just the same, may be a little less surface area but will get the job done. only thing you need to keep in mind is that it will block some light from the back pane of your tank, so if your tank is only 12 inches wide i dont think it would be a great idea. Look at what coral hind did (used an in box as an overflow the right triangle shape helped not block as much light, im going to try and do something similar this is the other reason i went external overflow... my internal overflow box will be skinny so it wont take up much space inside the tank....you could do the same by flipping the bulkhead around and cutting it down some.....aka nut side is in the tank but im not sure if thats recommended for the purpose of sealing the water in. and remember if you do cut a bulkhead have the washer above where you cut so you dont destroy the threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Rhoads February 7, 2013 Share February 7, 2013 This is not safe. You have two drains necking down into one pipe. What happens if the pipe blocks where they come together? Also, the valve dialing them down is reducing the capacity of both drains. You want two drains capable of handling the FULL amount of overflow independently. You need to dial back the lower pipe so it just barely fills to the upper one. It will be silent then. No air bubbles or special caps to fight with. The diagram in my other post is not relevant. That was for a question about not using an internal overflow. The picture of my QT tank is what I was referring to. I do appreciate the concern, but this is completely fine with my setup. I have 4 drains total on this tank. Even if these were both clogged I would still have more than enough capacity to handle my return pump. I combined these two because I can be very safe with the 3 return pipes I will have running. With this I will be able to re-do the plumbing to include all 4 if I decide on a larger return pump in the future. I also keep hearing that gate valves are the way to go, but I dont see why a ball valve cannot be used in the same fashion. I can fine tune these as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 7, 2013 Author Share February 7, 2013 I would like to ask another questions as well: What if I hung an external skimmer off my sump? Does that defeat the purpose of a HOB skimmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frotch11 February 8, 2013 Share February 8, 2013 +1 on the overflow on one side and lock line the other . . . as for the sump . . . I always use aquariums and add my own acrylic baffles. I have a 20gal long under a 33 gal tank and I have 2 - 15gals (kinda stacked) under my 55gal. The 20gal sump is broken up into 3 parts - drain area, refugium, and return The 15gals under my 55 made plumbing more complicated but one used as the refugium and the other is half drain area with skimmer and half return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frotch11 February 8, 2013 Share February 8, 2013 I would like to ask another questions as well: What if I hung an external skimmer off my sump? Does that defeat the purpose of a HOB skimmer? all depends on what fits best in your stand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimlin February 8, 2013 Share February 8, 2013 I would like to ask another questions as well: What if I hung an external skimmer off my sump? Does that defeat the purpose of a HOB skimmer? no. hob skimmers are typically used by people who dont have a sump. you can hang all yourhob equipments on the sump rather than your display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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