Sizing a circuit for new tank

[AlanM]

I'm beginning the install of a new tank very soon. I'm thinking I'll need an additional circuit, maybe 2.

 

Are there some DO's and DO-NOT's with installing new power to a sump location in a fish room and to a display tank?

 

Also, how much power is enough? Is there a good reason for having different things on two or more different circuits in case one blows so as to help save the tank?

 

I'm going to have:

 

2 250W heaters in sump

1 150W heater in new saltwater vessel

1 250W LED install

1 Reeflo Blowhole 1450 (160W max)

2 Tunze 6095 powerheads (42W total)

1 CS1 skimmer with Sicce recirc pump (60W)

1 Feed pump for said skimmer plus a couple reactors (Eheim Compact + 2000) (35W)

1 Avast ATO (around 3W)

1 Swabbie (3W)

1 Apex (guessing 20-30W?)

3 small utility pumps for moving/mixing saltwater and RO/DI water around (60W total)

 

So that's about 1300W total if everything was running all at once. That's well within the capacity of a 15A circuit, and since I have a bunch of 15A Romex, that's what I'm inclined to install with one outlet near the sump for the utility stuff and one outlet under the tank for powerheads and lights.

 

Also, I know for safety it's good to have GFCI circuits. I'm not inclined to put that in the circuit box, but I'm hesitant to use it for the outlets either because I don't want to lose the entire power for the tank if something trips it. I could use a separate GFCI per device, but that seems kind of crazy too. I could always have two different outlets and put the critical stuff like the return pump and one of the heaters on a non-GFCI outlet and put the others on a GFCI outlet, I guess. What do most people do?

[Djplus1]

I use a GFCI outlet and have never had any issue with it tripping. If you do, it is because water got in and you definately want it to shut off then or because you have a faulty ground or something that you don't want going unnoticed.

[Big Country]

I ran two 20A circuits for my tank. Put 6 plug in's attached to each circuit, wired the first pair of plugs direct to the circuit, put the GFCI on the center outlets and then another set after. I keep my return pump, ground wire and a power head on the unprotected circuits just so I have flow if the GFCI trips which it has a couple of times

[Chad]

In my recent build, I had two 15A circuits installed and it is more than enough. One would have been enough, but I like having return pumps and circulation pumps on different circuits.

 

Some sort of circuit protection (e.g., GFCI, arc fault) is a good idea.

[Smorf]

You can run parallel GFCI's off the same circuit. I did it on my stand. Each gang box has it's own GFCI. You can trip any one and the other 2 are unaffected.

 

 

I wanted GFCI protection, but didn't want every piece of equipment to shut off all at once.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Smorf

[Smorf]

Also I liked this article: http://www.beananimal.com/articles/electricity-for-the-reefer.aspx

[AlanM]

Right. I could get like a 6 gang box and put a bunch of GFCI outlets in there, but I'd also like the convenience of being able to power things off with an American DJ power strip which plugs into one outlet. If they had one of those with individual GFCI resets, that would be great, but probably cost a ton.

[Smorf]

Right. I could get like a 6 gang box and put a bunch of GFCI outlets in there, but I'd also like the convenience of being able to power things off with an American DJ power strip which plugs into one outlet. If they had one of those with individual GFCI resets, that would be great, but probably cost a ton.

 

You could wire up a bank of these http://www.globalind...tor-light-white

 

Have you seen Melev's setup? http://www.melevsreef.com/power_panel.html

 

The link is his old setup, then he links to his newer setup at the bottom of that page.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Smorf

[AlanM]

Hey, I forgot about those switch/outlet combos. I have one in my bathroom for the fan and the hair dryer, but my switch doesn't switch the outlet on and off. It can be wired to the load or line side of the outlet, though (mine is currently on the load side, so the fan is protected), so maybe I could put it upstream of the load side of the GFCI and make it switch the hot leg of the outlet on and off. Hmm.

 

So Melev puts a GFCI outlet plugged into each channel of his DJ strips and mounts them all in a panel. Guess that would work. Another decent idea.

[mr.x-ray]

Not getting into how people set there systems up: At 1300w you would be using 11.81 amps at 110v. A single 20a is plenty for what you say. I wouldn't use a single 15A, it's getting close to the edge of popping.

[Mike Mann]

You also gotta consider voltage drop on your circuit. how far is the panel from your tank setup.? and what do you mean by 15Amp wire? 14wire? I would go with two 20Amp GFCI circuits personally, just because its more than enough power over there and you would be good even for future upgrades. The cost is not much of a diffrence either for breakers or GFCI's.

 

Another note what chad was sayin you CANNOT use ARCH fault on motor circuits so that wouldnt work for your pumps

Edited January 5, 2013 by Mike Mann

[AlanM]

It's not that far from panel to tank. About 30 feet. Yes AWG14 wire. Also have some 12, but probably would have to buy some more to get from the panel to the sump area. Could use what I have now to get from the sump to the tank.

 

I know an arc-fault circuit breaker is no good for an aquarium. I think NEC has it called for mainly in bedrooms with lamps and clocks and things.

 

I guess I was curious if I was leaving out big power consumers and was also curious what some had installed to run their tanks.

[Steve175]

You'll be adding more things as you go: for instance, calcium reactor, cooling fans for sump, light for 'fuge, Davy Jones Locker for skimmer, etc., etc., etc. I would use 2 separate 15, ideally 20 amp circuits so that you never have to worry about where to plug what. Will also enable you to plug the return pump and the PHs on different circuits to maintain flow in your tank if something trips. Use GFI on everything: it has likely saved my life more than once. I had a small house fire (thank God I was there) on a non GFI outlet which had SW run over a plugged and running cord.

[OldReefer]

You can run parallel GFCI's off the same circuit. I did it on my stand. Each gang box has it's own GFCI. You can trip any one and the other 2 are unaffected.]

 

I wanted GFCI protection, but didn't want every piece of equipment to shut off all at once.

 

+1 on this. I have done this and it works great. You just wire a couple GFCIs in parallel. I is really easy when you think it through. I wouldn't run anything near the tank without GFCIs protection. I'd also run two circuits if you have room for them in your breaker box. It is nice to have dedicated fish circuits in case you want to run them off a generator someday.

[AlanM]

OK. Will follow the advice here and run 2 circuits to the sump and run a leg upstairs from 1 of them and put GFCI outlets on them.

 

Somehow when the electricians did the heavy-up on my panel a couple of years ago they managed to use up the entire neutral bus on one side and very few on the other side, but the breakers are full on the other side. Not sure how that worked out. It violates my sense of order to put the breaker and hot on one side and run the white neutral over to the other side of the box, but I suppose it's all the same thing.

 

Does anyone know if Melev's power panel linked earlier where he used outlet boxes with GFCI outlets wired with Romex and a plug on the end to individually switched American DJ strip is a violation of good judgement? The biggest weirdness to me would be using solid conductor on the plug or stranded conductor on the outlet...

 

Also, Bill, if you run a generator for your fish in a power outage do you switch off the breaker and then just inject power into one of your fish outlets that you know is not isolated from the meter and the pole? Seems like that might work, but you'd still have the neutral continuous at the panel, so it seems like you should really have a disconnect for both neutral and hot.

[AlanM]

Actually, that's dumb. Neutral is bound to ground at the panel. Seems like switching off the main breaker if it was interlocked in some way so that the breaker that you're running the generator in on could not be on at the same time would work.

[davelin315]

Unclear on why you can't use arc fault on an aquarium. I have arc fault breakers and then each outlet is a separate gfci. I wired in a 3x20amp sub panel that is only for the tank after having a lighting fixture arc and catch fire. All of my equipment is on this sub panel.

[AlanM]

Supposedly the arc detection method gives false positives when some motors/pumps first start. Think that's the only reason.

[davelin315]

Supposedly the arc detection method gives false positives when some motors/pumps first start. Think that's the only reason.

 

Have never had that issue with mine - I would guess that's a myth or an anomaly - after all, new code requires that many rooms in the house have them and a ceiling fan is a motor so I can't imagine that if they trip with motors starting that they'd be used.

[davelin315]

Interesting, did some research and it states that MH will trip arc fault all the time, but mine never did that. I can't imagine that it's because they don't work at all since I have tested them out, maybe this is a problem with older ones and the technology is improved or perhaps it has to do with the type of ballast being used.

[OldReefer]

Also, Bill, if you run a generator for your fish in a power outage do you switch off the breaker and then just inject power into one of your fish outlets that you know is not isolated from the meter and the pole? Seems like that might work, but you'd still have the neutral continuous at the panel, so it seems like you should really have a disconnect for both neutral and hot.

 

I just used a conventional transfer switch. I was really amazed how easy and cheap it was to install. The whole project cost less than an MP40 dry-side. The only thing that makes it hard, is if you scatter your fish stuff across a bunch if different circuits. If you add a couple of dedicated circuits for all your fish stuff it makes life a lot easier. My wife was able to plug in the generator and run the whoe fish-system without even a phone call while I was out if town.

 

So for me... Dedicated fish circuits, GFCIs, and transfer switches are all good things and relatively cheap.

[Coral Hind]

AFCI's due seem to nuisance trip for certain loads like motors and arc type lights. I added AFCI's to my whole house and had to convert the breakers for the washing machine, fridge, and fish tank lighting back to regular breakers. Staggering the start times of the MH lights helped but I just couldn't rely on them to hold anymore when I wasn't around so the AFCI had to go.

[AlanM]

I called the company that did my heavy up and installed a new panel and they wanted a grand for a transfer switch to handle my little 3500W portable generator. I've seen interlocks online which is basically a metal plate that screws to the front of the panel and keeps you from turning the main breaker and the generator feed breaker on at the same time. They claim it satisfies code, but since that differs depending on the place I don't see how that could be true.

[OldReefer]

I got this switch for about $200+ and installed it myself in an hour. It came with a video and everything. I was amazed how easy it was.

 

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-30216A/p1114.html

 

 

[Coral Hind]

AlanM, The panel installed interlock switch is a great low cost option and it's very easy to install. You may have to rearrange some breakers positions in your panel so the genset breaker is next to the main breaker.

 

Here is an example of what one looks like for those that don't know what we are talking about.

 

Here is where I got my interlock kit from: http://natramelec.com/