Space use and layout

[Chad]

In the new home, I plan to move the sump, equipment, frag tank, etc. to the garage.

 

I have a 6' wide by 2.5' deep by 9' tall (to the ceiling) space to work with and need to incorporate the following things:

2 24x12x24 water exchange tanks

1 36x18x19 sump (and all the equipment - I think I'll need a different return pump, currently it's a mag 9.5)

1 18x19x19 frag tank

1 55g RO holding tank

1 20g hospital

1 18x11x18 chiller

 

Here is an initial (almost thoughtless) layout. I'd like to think about thinks like access, intellegence in layout, ect. Some things (hospital tank and 55g holding tank) are not in the pic and should be.

 

 

What do y'all think? What considerations do y'all think need to be made? What work height and access space do y'all think is needed for various things? What else do y'all think is important?

[icecool2]

I'd move both of the top-off tanks to the bottom shelf (unless they are gravity feed). That would give you the space on the center shelf for a QT tank. Chiller on the top might be a problem with heat rise. Do you have a fan in that area?

[Chad]

Neither makeup tank is gravity fed, I have dosing pumps that push and pull the auto water change water where it needs to go.

 

I don't have anything in the area right now, the home hasn't even broken ground yet

 

That being said, I was considering enclosing and adding a little insulation to the lower area, so the chiller could be "outside" the "wet" area altogether (although within the enclosed area of the garage, which could potentially be an issue - I'll do something about that after some run-time if needed).

[DaveS]

Put top offs either on top or bottom shelf depending on whether gravity would be to your advantage or disadvantage. If you're going to keep the chiller on these shelves, top is probably best to avoid heat transfer to the sump or QT/Frag/Iso tanks like I have going on right now. If you having the top off tanks up there with the chiller it can help keep that water warmer if you want.

 

Main shelf should be reserved for your QT/Frag/Iso tanks so you can easily look at them. Next time you come by my place, you can check out my shelf system if you want. Or look at my build photos from the link below.

[L8 2 RISE]

One thing I've decided I'll do when I have the space is raise the sump and fuge up off the ground. This would allow easy cleaning/detritus removal. That would be my only suggestion.

[Coral Hind]

I like the chiller on top as it keeps the heat being generated from heating the water in the sump and fuge but if it is constantly pulling in the warmer air at the top it will not runs as efficiently as it could being down lower. It all depends on the air flow of the room it will be in. I like DaveS' idea of having a QT on the middle rack with the top offs lowered to the bottom shelf.

[Chad]

Thanks for the feedback, y'all! Greatly appreciate it

 

Here's what I am working with:

The Brown box being my "equipment room" and the blue box being the tank. Likely the final tank position will be in the right-most corner of the living room and the equipment room will be offset from the right wall by ~3 feet (water heater is in that corner), but the final positions are still being discussed.

 

Let's see if I can get these:

On the top-off tanks up top, I'll need at least the salt top off tank to be work accessible so I can easily get to it to adjust the salinity, so I think that puts it on either the middle or bottom. Since the system is driven by dosing pumps, the vertical position really doesn't matter. I think easiest is probably the bottom shelf maybe. (though I may add a fill line via pump which would pretty much eliminate a position concern so long as I can reach it to sample), the top shelf in my picture is probably around 7.5')

 

Good point on the middle tank being frag / QT / HT on the middle shelf. I'll probably do exactly that.

 

Also, good point about the hot air on top and chiller efficency... I wonder if I should put it on the floor next to the shelf and enclose the "equipment room" with doors.

 

Sam, I agree.. that's actually why I show the whole setup off the floor by a bit... I figured I'd use treated (will be sitting on concrete) 2x6's for that.

 

CH, how did you do your wall penetration? My contractor dad reminded me that the wall between house and garage is a firewall. This isn't enough to make it a no-go for me, but I figured I'd put some thought into it to at least minimize the size and number of penetrations.

[BowieReefer84]

This should work... http://www.hilti.com/holcom/page/module/product/prca_rangedetail.jsf?lang=en&nodeId=-16198

[jefftse]

I thought about to have my fish stuff in the garage too but I'm worried about the summer and winter. Is your garage heated and aired?

[Chad]

Neither, but it will have insulated doors.

 

I did a lot of research into those in this area and the area I am moving to (virginia beach) and a bunch of folks have a similar setup. My conclusion is that I will likely see some effects, but with the water circulation, and enclosed "cabinet," I think it will be workable.

 

Thanks for the link, Mike, how does that work?

[BowieReefer84]

Thanks for the link, Mike, how does that work?

 

 

What better than youtube =

 

and a data sheet http://www.hiltifirestopsubmittals.com/DisplayDocument.aspx?Mode=inline&DocumentID=8364

Edited August 13, 2012 by BowieReefer84

[Chad]

Hah. Gotta love the digital world! Thanks for that... I think it will work perfectly for my application (although may drive 2 or 3 wall penetrations vice a single one).

[Chad]

Picture with comments incorporated (other than perhaps chiller location... still not sure on that one) and better scaling.

 

[icecool2]

I like this better.

[DaveS]

How much volume is your salt top off and how much clearance would you have if it was on the top shelf? Agree that if you put the salt top off on the upper shelf, you'll need to ensure you have clearance to add salt and test. It's also a little bit inconvenient to have to get up there to do this but if the volume is such that you only have to do it once a month, it may be worth putting it up there. You can still put the fresh up there regardless as you won't need to access that.

 

As I see it (and implemented it for my shelves), top shelf space is the least valuable, the middle is the most valuable and the lower is in between. Put whatever you think you can live with up top so you save the more valuable space for other stuff- either planned already or to be inspired in the future.

[icecool2]

24x12x24" = about 28 gallons. (times 2)

[Jon Lazar]

You might want to set aside 2' or so of counterspace for fragging, performing water tests, unpacking corals and dipping them, etc.

 

You'll also need some storage space for those same items. Maybe on the counter; maybe on the wall behind it.

 

I'd also think about a place to put a deep sink...but that isn't reef specific, and shouldn't count against your space allocation!

[Chad]

How much volume is your salt top off and how much clearance would you have if it was on the top shelf? Agree that if you put the salt top off on the upper shelf, you'll need to ensure you have clearance to add salt and test. It's also a little bit inconvenient to have to get up there to do this but if the volume is such that you only have to do it once a month, it may be worth putting it up there. You can still put the fresh up there regardless as you won't need to access that.

 

I generally consider that I need at least 12" of clearance for access to anything that I need to get into on any regular basis (like this), plus, I have a pump that needs periodic maintenance in my salt top-up container and (currently) fill by dumping a 5 gallon bucket. Granted it's all on paper and easily changable like this, but the top shelf currently only has ~22" of space to the ceiling.

 

The tanks are each a little shy of 30 gallons (12x24x24) and last for around 11 days, so I am in it around weekly. Ease of maintenance is always my first priority, although The two top up tanks also do not need to be next to one another so there may be set up options

 

As I see it (and implemented it for my shelves), top shelf space is the least valuable, the middle is the most valuable and the lower is in between. Put whatever you think you can live with up top so you save the more valuable space for other stuff- either planned already or to be inspired in the future.

 

Good piece of advice. Hmmm. I'll have to play with that thought in mind.

[Chad]

You might want to set aside 2' or so of counterspace for fragging, performing water tests, unpacking corals and dipping them, etc.

 

You'll also need some storage space for those same items. Maybe on the counter; maybe on the wall behind it.

 

I'd also think about a place to put a deep sink...but that isn't reef specific, and shouldn't count against your space allocation!

 

Oh definitely on that one... It's in the plan and will be on the same wall, though I don't know for sure exactly where yet

[Chad]

Playing with my autocad again

 

[Steve175]

I would put some serious thought into the insulation and ventilation issues and the percentage of water volume in the garage (relative to the DT). I had a system in my garage when we first moved to MD and it was expensive to heat, expensive to cool, difficult to avoid temp fluxes, and I constantly fought drywall mold. If I were you, I would try to insulate your shelf as well as possible (with the chiller outside the shelf) and vent the contents to directly outside the garage. In fact, you ideally would vent in from the house (to cool the shelf air in the summer and heat it in the winter) and vent to outside the garage simultaneously.

[davelin315]

Chad, do you have attic access in the new house? If so, run the line up there for the chiller and ask them to put down a floor in the attic for you. This will keep the heat out of the picture completely and also offer you some additional storage for when the garage fills up and your wife decides that you need to move your fish stuff so that she can park a car since I'm pretty certain your garage is going to be car-unfriendly to avoid introducing any toxins into your water - after all, a garage is for fish, is it not?

[Chad]

Steve, putting the thought in is the purpose for this thread. The volume split will be about 60 DT / 90 other. I'm not quite sure how I am going to do the ventilation yet, though I keep going back and forth on enclosing it. On not enclosing it, ventilation and air movement will be good making the overall air volume of the garage more of an issue (too hot, too cold, etc.). On enclosing it, there is an increased probability of moisture related issues in the cabinet electrical stuff, cabinet itself, etc. Did you do anything to come through those issues?

 

Dave, attic access: yes, but not from the garage. I'll have to look, but I don't think using it will be an option.

 

I'd love the garage to be for fish only... but that just ain't going to fly

[Steve175]

Steve, putting the thought in is the purpose for this thread. The volume split will be about 60 DT / 90 other. I'm not quite sure how I am going to do the ventilation yet, though I keep going back and forth on enclosing it. On not enclosing it, ventilation and air movement will be good making the overall air volume of the garage more of an issue (too hot, too cold, etc.). On enclosing it, there is an increased probability of moisture related issues in the cabinet electrical stuff, cabinet itself, etc. Did you do anything to come through those issues?

 

Dave, attic access: yes, but not from the garage. I'll have to look, but I don't think using it will be an option.

 

I'd love the garage to be for fish only... but that just ain't going to fly

 

Chad: That came out wrong: no one would ever accuse you (or any of the mods) of not putting enough thought into their reefs. Rather, I wanted to make sure that you knew that I am a bit nervous for you about your plan from a temperature regulation and moisture/mold perspective. I really didn't solve my issue but didn't put a lot of resources into it, as that system was mostly designed to get me back up to speed (after a several year hiatus with moving states) and to seed 1000# of marco rocks while I built my main current system (which is similar to your concept with DTs inside the house and filtration in a single car garage - the latter however is enclosed, insultated, and ventilated with air flow from the house into the filtration room and from the filtration room to outside). In the temporary system, I had ~ 1000 gallons with all of it in a 2 car garage, so the ventilation issue may be a less of an issue (or a non-issue) with your smaller sump volume. Also, the temp swings will be mitigated a bit with 40% of your volume inside the house. Closer to the coast, the temp swing may be a bit less pronounced than around these parts as well. Having said all of that, if I was setting up a sump in my garage with an SPS goal, I would try to insulate the system from the garage as much as possible, and I would try to ventilate exhaust that space to outside the garage (or at least have the ability to add that if mold crept up). If logistically that can't be done, then I would try to insulate the garage for temp and also add a bathroom vent to the garage exhausting to the outside. My garage gets really cold in the winter and really hot in the summer: I could see my electricity bill in the winter (in the form of steam arising from the water) and hear my electricity bill in the summer (with a chiller needing to run 24/7). The humidity/mold issues were worst in the winter (when I tried to keep everything closed to conserve heat) and I had to bleach the walls weekly to overtly control the mold (which sucked). If anyone can figure out the most efficient way to solve the temperature and humidity issue in a garage, it is you.

[Chad]

Cheers, Steve, mine also came out wrong... I have had a super busy few weeks and was strongly in "standard engineer mode" when I typed. I appreciate your input!

 

I have been trying to figure out if I will be able to vent from the house to the cabinet to outside as this seems like it would be the ideal way to deal with any potential issues.

 

I don't think my wife would approve of any penetrations from inside to outside, though I may be able to go through the exterior wall into the attic via a vent... I'll have to look.

 

I attached my home plans and dims... thoughts?

Home_dims.pdf