So confused?

[gmubeach]

I'm helping a coworker with a tank. He had fish only setup for the last 10 years. He took one look at my tank and decided he wanted to try and go reef. So we've been trying to convert the tank. I noticed I didn't see any corraline growing anywhere. I thought at first maybe lighting and then maybe calcium or alkalinty. We've been adjusting the water with 2 part. Well somehow I made a mistake and he added too much of the calcium part.

 

Readings are as follows

30 drops of an api test kit so thats well over 520ppm of calcium

Everything else was ideal according to several test kits accept one thing

 

The test kit had a ph test on it and it was low. I've never tested for ph on my tank wouldn't even know what it does. Its between a 7.8-8.0 The alkalinty fell in the "ideal range". About 2 weeks ago his nitrates were high very high. So he installed a biopellet reactor the nitrates fell and so we put in some coral.

 

I started him off with green mushrooms, zoos and one lps.

 

All the previous attempts to add coral have failed. This time everything but the zoo's seem fine.... the zoo's won't open at all...

 

Lighting is 2 par 38's and he had a power compact perviously. The tank is 75g so the tank is considerably deeper then mine. So it might be a light issue, but I doubt it the tank looks like its getting enough light. The coraline is starting to grow its the red kind not the purple kind it is not cyno.

 

He had a very happy feather duster in the tank, but he has some kind of wrasse that made short work of it after 1 month of being in there.

 

I told him to put the worm back encase it only got the brim. I need to id this wrasse asp need to get my camera out.

 

Hes also using some kind of PH adjuster raises ph to control the ph I'm new to the whole ph concept.

 

SO what would your next move be? I want to get the water right first and then focus on the problems of species and ecology.

 

I got him a do/ro machine and hes been putting di/ro water in the tank for about 2 months.

 

Any help would be appreacated I just don't see how some corals can grow and some won't.

[BowieReefer84]

If the tank started with dryrock, you may need to add some coralline scrappings to the tank to "seed" it...

 

Also, I have heard the API test for calcium is very innacurate. I have a salifert kit on order right now to compare...

[gmubeach]

I seeded it with live rock from another wamas member and from my tank. Its growing currently. API is the brand of test kit is salfurt a better test kit?

 

Hes cut back feedings to 1 time a day to control amonia. I've just never seen zoo's and mushrooms in the same tank with the same lighting parameters take diffrenlty. We've been trying diffrent placement in his tank. Doesn't seem to do much. I had these corals for 3 months in my tank and the zoos had double in size. and were all the way open when we put in his tank.

 

At first I thought maybe its the ph adjuster maybe?

 

His salnity is 1.024 checked with a refractometer.

 

Not terribly sure about the temp the thermometer says 82-84 We are hooking up a fan in the sump. Still would like to try and save the zoo's.

[L8 2 RISE]

If I were to make a bet, I'd say that copper has been used in some form or way in the tank which will render it unable to bear corals.

[Reefoholic]

From experience I can confidently say some zoas are very stubborn and won't open up. I have a batch of zoas that open up but won't grow at all for years now. I still dunno why. All my SPS is growing happily as well as other zoas.

 

Did you try to place the zoas in a shady area with decent water flow? Sometimes it also helps to spot feed them very little. Are there any inverts that could be bugging them? My emerald crab sometimes won't leave my zoas alone for the love of god.

 

Also, regular water changes is definitely the key to control water parameters. I also wouldn't trust API test kits. Try salifert if possible...

[gmubeach]

Its a lyretail wrasse/moon wrasse/lunar wrasse. I was concerned about copper and bought a test kit for it? Tested out at zero. We can test it again, is there any way to get rid of the copper if it is in the tank? That was one of my first suspicions copper, but the test kit reads zero and if it was used it hasn't been used in the last year maybe never. Also if copper was used why would the feather duster live for a month? I thought copper harmed all invertabrates not just corals.

 

We just reran the copper test its zero or less then 0.25.... So hard to read these api tests. Any one have experience with copper in the marine aquarium.

[BowieReefer84]

Maybe try a polyfilter. Not really a longterm solution though due to being pretty costly...

[gmubeach]

hmm from what I read it leaches back from the live rock and the silcon on the tank. I still am unsure as the copper test kit reads zero or right below zero. Let me see if the mushrooms grow any if they do its defenlty not copper... I'm so frustrated!

[Big Country]

API calcium test sucks, get a salifert test for calcium. API kit is decent for Alkalinity. Lunar Wrasses love inverts, feather dusters and zoos, they love to eat them like candy, if you plan to keep zoo's, snails, or hermit crabs get rid of the lunare wrasse.

[davelin315]

Lunare wrasses also love to eat other fish... they are very aggressive fish and most will want them out of their tank at some point in time. I have had them in the past and they've ripped the bellies out of angels and tangs.

[treesprite]

The API calcium test kit is difficult for me, because I don't know what APIs definition of "blue" is and there is no color card. Usually, I end up interpreting the test result as sky high calcium, when I'm sure my calcium is not that high (isn't pH off when calcium is off?).

 

The API copper test kit sucks.

 

Regarding copper, I used my old 38 g with corals in it and had no problem, even though I used to have copper in the tank. I even used a couple pieces of liverock that had been in the tank when copper was in it, and had no problem (it was empty of water, and had also been used as a terrarium, in between the time of copper use and the time of having corals in it).

Edited July 27, 2011 by treesprite

[gmubeach]

Yep I know about the lunar wrasse hes got a type of butterfly without its long fin...I keep trying to tell him to get rid of the wrasse but he claims its his favorite.

 

So I hate not having control of the tank its his. I'm going to see if I can get a hold of a salifert copper test kit this week.... but if the wrasse will nip at zoos thats probably the culperit hes so big too its like a 6 inch long in a 75 gallon its obvious why his fish are dispearing. Anyway MY tank is doing really well for the first time in a long time!

[trockafella]

2 PAR38 bulbs is NOT enough for 75g reef tank. 6-8 bulbs would be better. Not that I think thats the reason for the issues, but it probably doesnt help..

 

And if youve been keeping reef tanks for years now how is PH new to you.? Its umm, kind of important.

[gmubeach]

Its been 7 years as a matter of fact, I just havn't tested for ph in a long time I test alkanity and calcium every few months and my ph never seems to change. Also hes got power compacts and hes using the par 38's as spot lights to grow the coral. I'm sure he could of grown basic corals without the par 38's, but I told him it would be a good upgrade.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but isn't ph controled by 2 part or water changes? I've never had an issue? Anyway need to read more on ph.

[quazi]

Polyfilter solves a multitude of sins. Worth the small investment. If the pad turns blue, you know you have copper. But, it soaks up so many things, that if you are having problems, it will help. Can't hurt!

[gmubeach]

Alright I will see if I can pick some up. Any other suggestions?

[onux20]

 

 

Maybe I'm wrong but isn't ph controled by 2 part or water changes? I've never had an issue? Anyway need to read more on ph.

I dont have the scientific answer to that but I am going with no, 2 part does not CONTROL your ph. 2 part will INFLUENCE PH but it is not intended to control PH. 2 part is designed to replace alk and Ca used up by tank inhabitants over time.

 

All salt mixes produce water that will reach certain values for salinity, ph, Ca, Alk and other trace elements, read the label on your brand of salt. So water changes can be used to keep your values where you want them. However, when the demand on the available trace elements exceed what you can economically make up for with water changes, folks start dosing chemicals like 2 part to make up for it. Mostly as a response to low alk and Ca levels. I have never heard of anyone dosing it to control PH...possible but unlikely.

 

I will leave the science behind what PH is a measure of to the really smart folks like Origami.

 

There is a lot of good reading out there that will help you better understand the chemical relationships in your tank. Be sure you understand these before making any changes to your system.

 

Ron

Edited July 27, 2011 by onux20

[Integral9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH

"In chemistry, pH is a measure of the acidity or basicity of an aqueous solution.^[1] Pure water is said to be neutral, with a pH close to 7.0 at 25

[gmubeach]

I deal with these issues every day, raising alk/ph to help waste burn.

 

For my reef tank, I just always dosed two part/ did regular water changes used "good expensive salt" Every once in a while I'll add trace elments... and I heavly feed my coral. I guess I should probably start keeping an eye out considering I've been using prodibio and its finally starting to kill the grape culerpa in the tank or infact lowering the nutreints to a managable level.

 

Thanks for all your guys help.... I'm still trying to help my coworker with his tank.

 

MY tank runs with a protien skimmer a hang on the back refugium and thats about it...

 

 

 

SO I'm knew to all these biopellet reactors and stuff... I have another question hes got a trickle filter with bioballs that he cleans when it gets deitritus in it. Hes got way more out dated equipment then I know what to do with so far hes got the following

 

 

a trickle filter/ small live rumble and an attempted cheato growing sump.

2 canister filters 1 with uv.

A couple of cooling fans

a brand new biopellet reactor that looks like its functioning optimiumly.

Hes got a fan cooled hood and a glass top with 2 par38's and 1 large compactflourences....

He put a small fan in the stand to cool off the tank.

 

He was running 84degrees or so and his house is like 76 degrees.

He claims his large protein skimmmer pump is driving up the tempurature...

 

His nitrates and amonia are slowly leveling out...

 

The tank may or may not have had copper we keep testing, but find none. I've read a lot on it the past couple of days about leaching. and stuff so the next step I think is to get a polyfilter?

 

 

Thanks as always for your guy's help.

 

Some things he does really well others hes very stuborn. Hes a good bit older then me.

 

GOOD example hes got a mandrin thats fatter healthier then mine, but he has no pods or even starfish.... thing eats frozen and only frozen...

 

Bad Example: he doesn't do the research before he buys hes got this wrasse thats killing his fish, he claims they are playing?

 

GOOD example: Hes very good at constructing stuff .... If I need any thing shopped I'm sure he can do it...

 

 

Anyway He works with me so I guess I'm in it for the haul. Last night I noticed the top fin of his butterfly was missing he said it was lost during play. The butterfly was clearly attacking the lunar wrasse he thought they were playing. Anyway I can only help can't overstep... just a little frustrated.