Turn off skimmer?

[LanglandJoshua]

I've been thinking a lot about running my tank on live rock only. Especially when I've got snails, shrimp and others that are actively trying to reproduce. Their fry go throuh a larva stage, and just get pulled out with the waste. After weeks of feeding daily, I went to an every other day routine-semidaily. My skimmer only gets to pull anything out during the semidaily spike of waste. Which is almost nothing. I don't think my tank needs the skimmer, my copepods are getting to a high population(IMO), and I've even got some micro starfish the size of a dime. I know in larger more mature systems this may be common. I got rock from two very mature tanks about two months ago and am noticing what I got then is much larger now. So I'm wondering what the rest of you guys think. If I can pull the skimmer out, I will put another 50lbs of live rock in the sump. I've already got about 150 in the system, maybe more. It's hard to weigh haha. I love the idea of a natural system, and hope to start up a phyto/rotifer system once my stand is built. I had to hold off on the stand to get an RO/DI.

 

Thinking of natural filtration, I have almost no hair algae so its past "new tank syndrome" and I'm noticing what I can only think to call a "marine snow" that some of my zoanthids are catching. The gobies love to kick up sand, and my currents keep up some particulates. Everything seems to eat it, from shrimp and fish, to sponges, zoanthids, and featherdusters.

 

Everything seems to be doing great, I will do some chemical tests this week. However I would be amazed to find any ammonia, nitrates, or nitrites. I feel somewhat confident it can run without a skimmer. What do you guys think? I want to run it by someone else first. There will be pics soon.

[treesprite]

If you want to try it, go for it. If it doesn't work you can always go back to using your skimmer. I am wondering what you already have in place, though, for filtration. My old 16g had no skimmer, no traditional filter, just a DSB and a ton of caulerpa - it had zero nitrate. However, I've not been able to duplicate in a larger tank.

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

Won't hurt anything just do waterchanges. The deep sand bed worked really good on our 150 if your trying to go more natural.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I had a large setup (125+55s+40f) that I did not run a skimmer on for well over a year. The 40BR fuge was totally full of caulerpa. I could never measure nitrates a while after I got that caulerpa going.

 

Medium stocking. Very rarely did any waterchanges. DSB in fuge also.

 

If you have the room for it, it is a great way to go.

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

I agree, I had some grape caulerpa in the 100 and it helped a lot. Didn't realize how much I missed the deep sand bed and algae's til I set up the new tank.

[BowieReefer84]

Did you keep 24/7 lighting over the caulerpa to keep it from going sexual and fouling the whole system?

[lowsingle]

It's a bold move to go skimmerless......I've never done it, but it has worked for some people......if you decide to give it a try take before and after pics!

 

cheers,

Darren

[LanglandJoshua]

Well from what I'm getting here is that it is possible, there were some questions about what I have for filtration right now. I have no mechanical filtration. I have a compact AVAST skimmer(pump underneath), and a minimum 100 lbs of live rock. The sand is at most 4" deep, my gobies love to move it so there is no constant. I have no caulerpa which I've heard suggested. I also have absolutely no xenia, or anything else for that matter to help with chemical levels. Yet my kenya-tree is growing prolifically, and I have four seemingly happy anemones(2 GLTA, 2 RBTA), a minimum of 20 mushroom anemones, along with several zoanthid frags which I just split. I also have some birdsnest corals and sponges. Even some chalice I have fragged. There are a couple things in there that I'm not sure exactly what they are. One of which is a filter feeder that looks off white, but has an odd flourecent color under the lights.

 

I do have some pictures now, but nothing online yet since I got my rock. So I will have to fix that this weekend.

Edited May 28, 2011 by LanglandJoshua

[LanglandJoshua]

Ok, I only have two pictures and a video of the frag tank right now. Since I will be busy for the next couple days, this may be my last chance to show what I am talking about for a while.

 

This first one shows only about half the tank, I will have to get some better ones tomorrow before work.

 

 

This is after four days of semi daily feeding, it had been cleaned and wiped down before hand. Just to show how little it is pulling out. Unfortunately I don't want to tune it down too much because I do sometimes get spikes that cause it to overflow. Then fill my tank back up with a several days of waste...Over all that is 1 1/4th inch of skimate. I used to fill the entire collection cup daily. So I am glad to see it drop so much after about three weeks of the "new" rock and more limited feeding.

 

 

here are my very happy RBTA's(2) and B&W clowns

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWolfsfang1?feature=mhsn

Edited May 29, 2011 by LanglandJoshua

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

Sounds like you still don't have an ato, I would get an ato and keep the skimmer if I were you, but at least get an ato if you haven't already.

 

BowieReefer I kept the lighting on 20/4 and never had any problems with it. I also kept cheato in the same fuge.

 

 

[LanglandJoshua]

I have the ATO float switches, but I realized I need another power strip. So I'll just sell the switches, and get some Avast switches.

 

The reason I want the skimmer off is I have shrimp and snails trying to breed. But the babies get sucked out, it's doing so little now that I am sure once I add my rubble rock to my refugium, it will more than make up for what is being pulled out.

[treesprite]

I have no mechanical filtration. I have a compact AVAST skimmer(pump underneath)

Skimmers ARE mechanical filtration.

 

IMO, using plumbing to get to a refugium IS mechanical filtration, because it requires pumps and plumbing to move water from one body of water to a separate body of water and back again.

 

However, you could say natural nutrient removal.

[LanglandJoshua]

Skimmers ARE mechanical filtration.

 

IMO, using plumbing to get to a refugium IS mechanical filtration, because it requires pumps and plumbing to move water from one body of water to a separate body of water and back again.

Lol, I was thinking about that when I posted it. I was meaning no foam/sponge, filterpad, or any other man made barrier excluding a pump intake or overflow teeth. I hope that clears it up.

[treesprite]

So where is Rob? He should have been here by now.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Did you keep 24/7 lighting over the caulerpa to keep it from going sexual and fouling the whole system?

 

I kept mine on a 12 hour on/off cycle. It never "went sexual". While I do believe that happens, I think it may be one of the "boogy men" of the hobby, getting more press than the actual number of incidents warrant.

 

YMMV!

[amay121]

I did the whole skimmerless deal, and really had some good results. I had ceriths reproducing like crazy, I mean, I was giving hundreds to a thousand away every month almost and there never seemed to be an end to them. Corals (SPS mainly), grew like weeds. Also, I was doing water changes every month or two months and was never able to detect nitrates or phosphates. Worse case scenario, if things don't work out, do a good water change and turn the skimmer back online if there is even the slightest bit or negative reaction from your livestock.

Edited May 31, 2011 by amay121

[rocko918]

sorry, i dont get it. You want to go skimmerless just to breed shrimp (which will most likely get eaten by the fish) and snails? I dont see the benefit. If your system is doing so well then leave it alone.

 

If its because the skimmer goes a little crazy and it goes back into the system then you need to fix that. Fine tuning your skimmer would be the first thing on my list to do.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

sorry, i dont get it. You want to go skimmerless just to breed shrimp (which will most likely get eaten by the fish) and snails? I dont see the benefit. If your system is doing so well then leave it alone.

 

If its because the skimmer goes a little crazy and it goes back into the system then you need to fix that. Fine tuning your skimmer would be the first thing on my list to do.

 

 

What I hear him saying is that the skimmer is an unnecessary component, which sometimes causes problems, and he prefers a more natural system. Seems very reasonable to me.

[LanglandJoshua]

Thanks Tooth Decay, yes. I believe it is an unnecesary piece of the system. Even if the fry get eaten, there is a small chance one or two might make it. Which I would find amazing to watch. I really would rather my tank produce life than reduce it. If I can make my system useful to others, and use a little less energy I dont see anything wrong with that. I will probably turn it off once I get the last of my dry rubble in the tank. That and some 10.00 calibration fluid for my reefkeeper. My PH kit says PH of 8.2, but the reefkeepers freaking me out and saying 7.4 lol.... Anyways at its worse I have a natural source of food, vitamins, and protein for my fish. I prefer live food, over dried. I'm watching tiny shrimp like buggers grow today. Not daphnia, or copepods, but a flatter uncurled critter. It seems to swim around a lot, and be able to swim like shrimp. If I was able to offer some cheap aquacultured peppermint shrimp, first my aptasia wouldn't stand a chance, and second I know WAMAS would want some! So I don't see why not take the plunge that shows little risk and high gain. Also, I will be trying to set up some phyto and rotifer cultures soon. Just to boost the odds of and fry, or breeding. I know my SPS, and everything else for that matter would love it!

 

Of course before I turn the skimmer off, I need to get my refugium set for cheato and xenia. I've got loads of Kenya tree, which at first I thought was xenia lol...time for the real thing soon.

 

As for the algae you saw a while back, Piper, it's long gone. My foxface demolishes it every time it tries to come back! On. Some places it looks like it's trying to hold out. But then the foxface comes back and mows it. So in some places it's like a mowed lawn...

[rocko918]

actually sps grow better in a cleaner tank. Your zoas might like the dirty water. I dont see as much in which you call high gain in this at all.

 

your tank is only 75 gallons, not much of a natural resource there. just giving you the other side of the coin here. There are A LOT less skimmerless tanks out there that carry healthy corals. it can be done but my point is your still new to the whole saltwater thing. why go for something less stable?

 

I dont believe a skimmer is an unnecessary component at all, yours might cause problems because its not setup correctly.

 

 

i would just leave the system alone and enjoy it.

[LanglandJoshua]

My system size is about 130gallons. I have well over 100lbs of rock, all fully cultured from some great tanks. I just see the skimmer pulling out nutrients that would otherwise be used by the macro critters. From what I see here, I put a high value on creating life. Look at our reefs, and think of all the death you caused in learning about this hobby. Shouldn't we all try to help reverse that? I'm not pushing anyone else. But if I can have my animals/plants breeding, which Ive seen attempted several times in my tanks, then that means I am succeeding. I hate the idea of, "it's alive...must be doing well". If you judge me by the color of my skin, I could be deathly sick before you could tell. Active breeding in an aquarium is the only way I feel I have succeeded in replicating ideal living conditions. That said, it's also important to me to keep these fry alive. So I can share success. I have seen people all the time who just want to watch their tank, regardless of the effect elsewhere. So for me keeping any fry alive is a goal, my skimmer is impeding my goal. So I want it gone. If you don't believe my tank is ready, feel free to gloat if I have to turn it back on. But whatever I do, I'm always learning, and trying to do something better.

 

No matter how new I am, and I will always be glad to hear criticism. Just remember to point it at the idea, not the person. Tell me how I am wrong. Then help me fix it. That's the idea here. So, since I'm relatively new. How would you do it, with my system.

 

As far as dirty water. I don't see why macrolife in the water, something that forms a food chain in my system should be looked down on. I'd rather let nature work for me than against me. The ocean has no UV sterilizer, that kills ALL its fry and macrolife. Yes the Sun is there, but that is more akin to a metal halide bulb. Why feed dry dead "dust" to a tank? Especially when I can have what would be in the ocean? A more natural food. Overall, I just wanna go with the flow dude!

[Origami]

Joshua, it sounds like you have a mind to give it a shot. If that's what you want to do, do it. Try to get some advice from Rob (zygote2k) if you're able. He's probably got a lot that he can add from his own personal experience.

 

Don't rely, though, on just shutting the skimmer down and seeing what happens. Be open to adding other forms of natural filtration like algae turf scrubbers and such, to convert those non-living organics into living-organics.

[LanglandJoshua]

 

Of course before I turn the skimmer off, I need to get my refugium set for cheato and xenia. I've got loads of Kenya tree, which at first I thought was xenia lol...time for the real thing soon.

 

I agree origami, thanks for the suggestion. I'll check with zygote.

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

You could just put the shrimp in an online refugium and breed them in there and add them to the tank once they grow up.

[LanglandJoshua]

The only two places that would be viable are in my refugium, and frag tank. I just need to get some valves to bleed off water. So I can turn the flow down for the fry. Which is the plan for my frag tank, I just need to fix the tubing to avoid spillage from the sump, and I will be able to make both run low flow from frag tank to refugium. It's pretty simple. But I was thinking why fight with my rock to remove the shrimp, when I can just let the system be gentle? Besides...my snails are annoying to hunt down lol. Thought I have most of the egg layers in the frag tank.

 

I need to get rid of my carnivorous snail before I put anything else in the refugium.