Mando77 May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 Activated Carbon: HLLE Smoking Gun Found By CORAL Editors - Posted on 05 May 2011 Ocean Surgeonfish, Acanthurus bahianus, with severe HLLE after exposure to dusty activated carbon. Activated Carbon as a Cause of Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE) in Marine Aquarium Fishes By Jay F. Hemdal Curator of Fishes and Invertebrates Toledo Zoological Society Background: Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE) is the name for a type of skin erosion that affects some species of marine fishes in captivity. It is occasionally referred to as Marine Head and Lateral Line Erosion (MHLLE) or Head and Lateral Line Erosion Syndrome (HLLES). A similar syndrome occurs in freshwater fishes, but the causes seem to be different, and that is usually termed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 (Topics merged) \Coral Magazine Article Please read the full article (above). Excerpts are provided below. Activated Carbon as a Cause of Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE) in Marine Aquarium Fishes By Jay F. Hemdal, Curator of Fishes and Invertebrates, Toledo Zoological Society Background: Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE) is the name for a type of skin erosion that affects some species of marine fishes in captivity. HLLE typically begins as small pale pits around the fish’s eyes. These may develop into light colored lesions along the fish’s lateral line system, finally spreading onto wider areas of the body and sometimes involving the unpaired fins. Fish that develop severe lesions are usually permanently disfigured. Study results Minor HLLE lesions were noted on two fish 20 days after the lignite carbon was added to the sump of their system. The lesions began to develop on the additional fish in that system, and grew in size until after four months, all of the fish in that system showed severe lesions (Eventually involving over one third of their body surface). The 12 fish exposed to pelleted carbon did not develop visible symptoms, but microscopic lesions were discovered upon histological examination by an outside laboratory, and two of the fish developed minor lesions a few months after the conclusion of the study. The effect of lignite carbon on the fish was swift and involved all of the exposed fish. None of the control fish developed any lesions. Statistically, the results were definitive that activated carbon use caused HLLE in these fish. Conclusion: The recommendation based on the clear effect that the use of carbon had on the study fish is not to use activated lignite carbon in marine aquariums housing fish species susceptible to HLLE. Other means of water quality management should first be explored; water changes, non-carbon chemical filtration, or foam fractionation. Extruded pelleted carbon may be more suitable, especially if used sparingly. No conclusions can be drawn regarding the use of carbon filtration products that were not tested. If you do use carbon, rinse it well in reverse osmosis water prior to use, employ a foam fractionator (skimmer), and do not place the carbon in a high water flow reactor (that might serve to break the carbon granules up into finer particles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integral9 May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 Wow. After reading the whole article, and while I don't actively use carbon filtration, I'm definitely going to be more choosy about the kind of carbon I buy and use when I do use it. fwiw: I have a scopas tang in a tank full of algea, cyano and detritus w/ zero signs of HLLE. He's actually what I would call "fat and happy". A bit of a bully though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltwaterworx May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 Thanks for being informative in your conclusion O! I remember reading about this once before. It does make you think. Theres still alot of variables that werent tested and IMHO the jury may still be out. Skimming and pelletized carbon are excellent alternatives as stated by Oragami and the article. I use carbon sparingly on many of my clients tanks as well as my own, (can you hear me knocking on wood from here!) not too much HLLE goin on over here. I've seen more HLLE on purple tangs and black tangs fresh off the plane than in home aquaria. Not saying it doesnt exist. Just my own little study! Men lie, woman lie, numbers don't.... But you cant torture them to make them say what you want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 Besides anecdotal evidence, this appears to be the first controlled study confirming the link between HLLE and carbon dust. It makes you think twice before tumbling lignite GAC in a fluidized reactor. If you do this, it may be appropriate to either change to a ROX-like pelleted carbon or to run your reactor output through a good filter sock. The article doesn't say anything, I think, about the size of the carbon fines (dust), though so I don't know what pore size sock would be effective. I'm curious if the actual journal article (referenced in the magazine article) says anything about the size of the fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 they say fed premium pellet food...pelleted foods contain ethoxyquin to preserve fats and amino acids. Read here I think there is still alot to be said about diet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltwaterworx May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 Ahh. As am I. There wasnt any reactor talk either. I'll cosign the use of socks. Also not buying cheap carbon and feeding your fish good food! It may have past me in the article, but how large were the study tanks they put the unrinsed carbon in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 (edited) They didn't say it in this article but people with carbon tumblers had more HLLE. I do not think that carbon is suddenly evil. If its rinsed well it serves a good purpose. Its interesting to note that Chemi-pure instructions tell you to NOT rinse the stuff. That stuff bleeds carbon dust almost forever when you rinse it! Edited May 6, 2011 by sen5241b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 They didn't say it in this article but people with carbon tumblers had more HLLE. I do not think that carbon is suddenly evil. If its rinsed well it serves a good purpose. Its interesting to note that Chemi-pure instructions tell you to NOT rinse the stuff. That stuff bleeds carbon dust almost forever when you rinse it! HMM, I never read the directions on chemi. I ALWAYS rinse it. What is the reasoning behind not rinsing it??? I can't imagine all that dust ever settling or being removed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 HMM, I never read the directions on chemi. I ALWAYS rinse it. What is the reasoning behind not rinsing it??? I can't imagine all that dust ever settling or being removed... +1, didnt even think to read the directions.. I always rinse my carbon (or chemi-pure) really really well.. I do use carbon in a reactor, but it has minimal tumbling.. Ive always used carbon, and never had an issue with any fish getting HILLE.. Its an interesting read, but I am still left somewhat confused.. What are considered "safe" carbons to use, or is it just about rinsing it really well..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 I do not think that carbon is suddenly evil. If its rinsed well it serves a good purpose. I agree. Having it on hand in case of emergencies is important. Making sure it is well rinsed and then using it in a way so that the water flows over it slowly so as not to cause any tumbling. A Poly-Filter is a good alternative if someone is worried about the carbon dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefishman65 May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 Three 120 gallon marine aquarium systems (two tanks per system) were established using typical home aquarium equipment and synthetic seawater. Live rock was utilized as the basis for biological filtration in all three systems. Thirty-five Ocean Surgeonfish, (Acanthurus bahianus) were evenly distributed among the three systems at the start of the study. and 500 g of carbon per tanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 Thirty-five Ocean Surgeonfish, (Acanthurus bahianus) were evenly distributed among the three systems at the start of the study. OK, so math... 35/3 = 11 with a remainder of 2... How did they evenly distribute those last two fish evenly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefishman65 May 6, 2011 Share May 6, 2011 Didn't you read the article they fed it to the others . IIRC the carbon tanks got one extra - that is the real cause over crowding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatle May 7, 2011 Share May 7, 2011 Interesting. My new midas blenny had what I believed to be HLLE for the past few weeks, just a day after I added him to the tank. I run BRS ROX 0.8 carbon in a BRS reactor (about 3/4 cup). It was rinsed well before starting the reactor's pump. The blenny seems to be making a full recovery now, and I've fed a lot of Scott711's high quality frozen food (blenny has always eaten well.) I'm wondering if I misdiagnosed the blenny with HLLE or if he had something else? I still like carbon, but I'm glad I started with a good brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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