The Ocean over at Floris Elementary School

[Sugar Magnolia]

Dave, that is an unbelievable amount of aiptasia. Hopefully the CBB will eventuyally eat it all for you. Are you also offering it some prepared food, or just letting it go at the aiptasia?

 

Alex, peppermints can be hit or miss with eating aiptasia. I've always had good luck with them taking care of it for me, but know some who haven't.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Flatworms. Ugh. I ended up scrapping a 7 gallon nano a few years back due to a massive infestation that Flatworm Exit couldn't control. I swear, they must have been mutated forms of flatworms. I'd dose the FE and I swear those darn flatworms would laugh at me! Tried the FE three times and they'd come back just as strongly as before.

 

I'd offer you my yellow coris wrasse to put in there to help take care of them, but I don't think I could catch him. Very skittish. You could also try putting a six line wrasse in there, they'll eat them too.

[davelin315]

I'm going with nothing but the aiptasia for now. I am still thinking of offering it some bloodworms, but I'd rather see it develop its taste for aiptasia. I know it's picking at stuff, and I've finally seen amphipods in the tank (took a good close look the other day and saw one crawling around on the bottom), so as long as I continue to see it picking without looking bad, I'm not going to offer it anything else (well, maybe not). My thought process on this is that since aiptasia and bristle worm populations will explode with too many nutrients in the tank, it's my job to severely limit those right now and see if I can make a dent in the population. As long as the copperband develops the taste for the aiptasia, I think it'll eat nicely for a long long long time! I'm possibly going to drop by school tomorrow and make sure things are going well, but we'll see if I have time.

 

Again, I'll update as things progress.

 

The cucumber, by the way, is actually cleaning off the glass. There's some algae that grew on the side where it was hanging out and it had trapped some detritus, and I noticed on Friday that the algae was gone in the vicinity of the cucumber. I guess it's cleaning off the algae on the glass for now. Kind of different, but if it's cleaning, that's what it's in there for.

[davelin315]

Sad news to report, the copperband butterfly did not make it. I noticed on Friday that it didn't seem to be picking as much as it was before, and that it seemed to be a little stressed out. Anyway, it died over the weekend and my substitute (I was out until yesterday) found it on Monday.

 

Despite the sadness, it made a good lesson for the kids. My substitute also happens to be the mother of my student last year who bought a tank and so she turned the death of the fish into a learning experience. The kids got to see the bristleworms crawl in and out and noticed that by Tuesday, there was nothing left. Also, the coral banded shrimp shed while I was away and the kids found a claw and were completely enthralled by it.

 

You'll all be happy to hear, however, that the aiptasia did just fine while I was away! I'm on the hunt for more solutions as I have not heard back from the berghia nudibranch supplier yet. They are in Texas and had an issue with one of the hurricanes that passed through, not to their business itself, but to one of their suppliers in the area.

 

I'll update you as things progress. I'm back at square one right now so I'm hoping to find a solution quickly!

[davelin315]

I saw a 6 line at Petco the other day and it's very reasonably priced (I think $11 or $12). I want to go back and talk to the manager about getting one in before it's placed in their system so I can quarantine it myself, however, I'm still skittish about adding anything from them again (I added a couple of nice fish from them to my 58 and they did fine, but then I added a fish from Roozen's without quarantining and it wiped out everything except for a single damsel despite treating the entire tank for 2 weeks with kick ich and ruby red).

 

Anyway, I'm still thinking about what to do about the flatworms, but since adding the two hermits, the problem seems to have gone down a tiny bit. I'll update when I make a final decision.

[dbartco]

Sorry the copperband died, and I'm glad you could turn it into an educational experience. To me, there is a bit of a "sting" to letting the copperband starve (I'm assuming that was the case). Then again, I am putting it's life above the aiptasia, so where do we draw the line. At the very least I know aiptasia populations can be "sustainable" (understatement!), whereas CB's are dwindling.

 

But you seem quite knowledgabe about the animals you keep, and their requirements, and give great advice. The copperband can be a difficult speices, so I'm curious why the choice to force the issue when other, quicker, methods are available for aiptasia erradication? Would you do this again? I also understand that you were not there to observe either, which after a while you may have pulled the trigger and just fed.

 

Berghias bring up the same isssue. What happens when the food source is gone? I have no real answers, but i hope you bring these issues and questions up for the kids as well to think about.

[Caribbean Jake]

You should see this tank. There is more aptasia in there than there is live rock. It is so ridiculous that I rather throw out the hole batch (no offense to whom ever gave you the rock) and start all over with new rocks.

 

Dave

Has my son come over to see the tank? I mentioned he is in Mrs. Maxwell class?

 

Jacob

[Folta]

Cool pictures.. Is that digitata fully colored? I haven't seen one that light colored before (but I like it)

[flowerseller]

Royal grammas can also be a good hunter of flat worms.

 

UV sterilization works well on keeping them in check also.

[davelin315]

There are two yellow damsels in the tank, so a royal gramma would probably be toast, especially since it's a 15 gallon. Also, I don't have a UV sterilizer in working condition that would fit into or onto the system, so that's out. I'm not even sure that a 6 line will survive in there with the damsels. I was thinking of another golden banded coral shrimp, but haven't found one again that's reasonably priced.

 

As far as the digitata, it's coloration is a light greenish brown with white polyps. It's growing like mad, but it's original color was darker.

[davelin315]

Hey Jake, he has not come in yet. He's more than welcome to swing by, though. The tank hasn't changed much since you were in. I might rebuild the hood this weekend since I am basically finished with wiring the metal halide into an outdoor floodlight fixture, so it might look a bit different come Tuesday.

 

As far as the copperband, although I'm not happy about it dying, I am not altogether sure that it would have survived anyway. Given their propensity for having difficulty at times adjusting, it had no competition in the tank and it did have pods to pick at in the system. When I picked it up, it wasn't eating (Centreville Aquarium) even though it was offered live brine and blood worms. I saw it picking at things more in my tank than it did in theirs, but since it was there and I have been looking for one for a long time, I decided to simply go with it despite the fact that it was day 1 in their system.

 

As for the choice of the copperband over other methods, the choice to keep it over other controls stemmed from the sheer number of aiptasia in the system and my poor track record with peppermint shrimp that actually touched aiptasia. Also, given the size of the aiptasia, I knew that even a pep that enjoys aiptasia probably would not touch these. As Jake said, this system is completely infested. I bought the rock out of a fish only system, and it does have life on it, so I didn't want to simply chuck it. If there were a simple solution to eradicating the aiptasia, I'd take it, but other than drying out the rock and killing everything off, there really were no other options for me. Searching for berghia's has been difficult and I have yet to find a source that has them and ships them at a decent size.

 

I thought about Joe's juice, but it would take too long to eliminate all of this aiptasia. Same for injecting them one at a time, never would happen. Hence, my decision to try the copperband. I had one years ago in a fish only system and although it held on for over a month, it never ate despite being offered live bloodworms on a daily basis.

 

I'm back to square one again, now, however. I'll update as time goes on.

[dbartco]

I doubt anyone has seen many copperbands or peppermints attacking large aiptasia anems. I have only seen them kept in check once down to a reasonable number and size. I would give up the biological methods until such time as the majority of the pests are brought to a more manageable level, IMHO. If you run low on aiptasia, I bet I know a club around here that would donate some to you.

 

I don't doubt you probably kept better care of the fish than the LFS did. I would like to know what is easier, getting healthy animal to ween off prepared to aiptasia, or force to only eat aiptasia. Has either been done for that matter? Experiments on difficult species is a real tough call. I would think until an animal is off the "hard to keep" lists, we might not want to force the issue.

 

Not on a soap box. I have had more than my share of mishaps, screwups, and bonehead decisions.

[Guest clownfish4]

Dave, copperbands are just like pepperments, they are hit and miss. I bought mine from Roozens after checking for several weeks and actually seeing one eat aiptasia. In my honest opinion I believe your copperband probably starved to death, but I'm not pointing fingers. I too have made a lot of mistakes just like everyone else. Biological methods are not any better than non. You said there are too many to inject, but I don't believe that is possible. If you inject everyone you see with kalk water on a daily basis, I bet you could have it under control in a week.

[Caribbean Jake]

I've used vinegar or kalk water for eradicating my aptasia. They both work within a time frame, but as Mike said, keep doesing daily until they are gone. On the copperband issue, I hate to say that if it was forced to eat aptasia only.. is like having me eat lettuce only... I will also starve.. I need meat.. beer, and pies.... or else I go wild... :D

[davelin315]

I agree that it probably did starve, but (in my defense) I'm not altogether sure that it would have begun eating other things as it stopped picking at the rock and pods that it was picking at when it first came into the system (or the tiny aiptasia, never could see what it was eating). Anyway, Chip, you're more than welcome to come in and see the problem I'm dealing with in this tank, and unfortunately, even if I had hours and hours to spend injecting in this system, I don't think I'd ever see the end of it.

 

This really is turning into a nightmare of a situation, not sure what to do, not altogether convinced that using multiple biological solutions (was thinking peps in the main system, removing rock for berghias one at a time, and then maintaining a rock with some aiptasia to keep the berghias happy in the sump for when and if the problem ever gets under control), and I'm positive that I'll never have time to inject the entire tank (even if I went in on an off day, it would be impossible, and who has time to spend an entire day injecting aiptasia with three kids under 5 and another 28 5th graders?).

 

Anyway, I think my options at this point in time are to keep on trying with whatever means I have. The peps are the next step, and if the supplier from Texas ever lets me know what their status is, I'll order some berghias for "out of tank" control on a rock by rock basis, and of course, make sure that my berghia population doesn't simply expire because I run out (PLEASE, ONE DAY!) of aiptasia by giving/trading some away.

 

If you do have some suggestions or would like to take a look at the system to assess a method, please let me know, I'd welcome anyone's input (and don't worry about being on a soap box, Doug, I debate the same issues as you did every day with this tank, especially since I'm trying to teach responsibility with the kids at school).

[Sugar Magnolia]

Sorry you're having to deal with this mess Dave. I know there is absolutely no way to inject all of those aiptasia. There's just too darn many. If it were me, I'd just inject the largest ones and throw 6 or so peppermints in there. I know they can be hit or miss, but every pepermint I've ever bought over the years has always taken care of the problem for me. Guess I've just been lucky. I think Roozen's has them fairly cheap, but I haven't been over that way in over a year, so I'm not sure what their stock is like or the price. I know they used to have several tanks teaming with peppermints.

[Guest alex wlazlak]

hows the aptasia problem going? is the copperband eating any of it?

[davelin315]

Alex, the copperband died a little over a week ago and I am going to move on to attempt 2 to eradicate the aiptasia. Thanks for keeping an eye on what's happening!

[xeon]

Dave,

IMO, I think the best way to treat the aiptasia is to spot inject your larger ones and take a chance on some peppermint shrimp. I think Berghias are hard to come by, expensive and there is the issue of food source after the fact. I'm sure you probably know the difference, but make sure to get peppermints and not camel backs if you do take the plunge. Maybe it is luck of the draw, but I have had a wonderful record with peppermint shrimp and aiptasia.

 

My first coral I got from someone in WAMAS(few years ago) was a small Sarcophyton on a rock with some Aiptasia. I knew enough about Aiptasia that I removed the leather and mounted it on a rock of my own... after I had already put it in my tank.

 

Well... an Aiptasia or two started to pop up here and there. I tried injecting, but since my tank is in a wall, seeing things, let alone hitting them with a small needle is hard to do sometimes. So I got a pair of peppermint shrimp. In one day the Aiptasia were all gone... mind you there were less than 10 and not incredibly large. Hardly a plague like you have.

 

I have not seen an Aiptasia in that tank since, although they are still there. I say they are still there because I aquacultured some base rock for a nano-tank within that system in the last year. The nano has three lovely Aiptasias in it, which I will inject sometime soon. They certainly did not come from dry and dusty rock. That tells me the peppermint is to be a permanent resident since it apparently keeps the "seen" presence of Aiptasia away.

 

If anything, the peppermint shrimp might keep tabs on the new and smaller Aiptasias while you needle your way through the big uns.

[Caribbean Jake]

Dave,

They certainly did not come from dry and dusty rock. 

41868[/snapback]

Dave

Is there a remote posibility that the aptaisia could have survive even after taken out of the water?

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Hi friend,

 

I recently erradicated a lot of aiptasia (not as much as you have)

using Joe's Juice. It was pretty quick business. I bet if you

spent a week at it, you'd be in fine shape.

 

tim

[davelin315]

The only problem with that is that I will run into the problem that I really don't have even an hour a day to treat the tank. When I'm at school (which is typically from 7:45ish or earlier until between 6-8PM every night) I'm doing work and it's hard to justify maintaining a tank and putting second. Once in a while I can dedicate 20-30 minutes to the tank, but at this time of the year it's very difficult to do.

 

That said, JSD (Jeff), one of the BB members, gave me a his remaining livestock from his tank and there's a couple of decent chunks of rock. Not nearly as much as there is in the tank, but I may do a substitute and stick this stuff in the tank for now and see what happens.

 

I'll update as I make new decisions.

[Caribbean Jake]

were can I find Joe's Juice, and will it work on Anthelia as well?

[davelin315]

Well, we actually had a few minutes today and did some testing of the tank water. We had ordered some things via www.saltwaterfish.com and wanted to make sure that everything was OK. The tank was a bit low on alkalinity last we tested, but we left it alone, added buffer with top offs and added some B-Ionic part A and took care of the problem.

 

When we tested nearly a month ago (maybe even longer?) the results were:

 

SG - 1.028 (added some water to lower it)

pH - 8.1

Ammonia - 0 ppm

Nitrates - 80+ ppm (ouch! dirty water!)

Nitrite - 0 ppm

Alkalinity - 2.5 meq/L

Calcium - 400 ppm

 

Today when we tested (two different classes, one at 9:15 and the other at 10:15) the results were much better:

 

SG - 1.026

pH - 8.4

Ammonia - 0 ppm

Nitrates - ~10-15 ppm

Nitrite 0 ppm

Alkalinity - 4.5 meq/L

Calcium - 450 ppm

Temp - 79.4 degrees (stable)

 

We also have the "new" lights on after replacing the non-functioning PCs with the 150W MH I rewired. The combination of not having anything in the tank besides a shrimp, some snails, some crabs, and a cucumber and also adding some chaeto in the sump resulted in the much lower nitrates. So, even though the aiptasia has yet to disappear, I decided it was time, so I ordered a few things.

 

We received got:

 

5 peppermints (can't believe how small they are!)

1 Bicolor Blenny

1 Royal Gramma

1 Pygmy Angel

1 Queen Conch for this tank (1 for the 15 to clean out some of the slime algae)

3 Feather Dusters

1 Rusty Goby (for the 15, it didn't make it and is in the freezer until I figure out how everything else will do)

 

When the tank is stable after adding some bioload, I'll bring in the donations from Jeff Davis (JSD) who donated a large chunk of rock with some cabbage coral, a long tentacle anemone, some zoanthids and Green Star Polyps on it, a rock with some yellow polyps, some miscellaneous rocks with small amounts of life, a bunch of snails and crabs, and also a nice gorgonian and some other livestock. This should dramatically change the look of the tank, but we'll see how it happens. I might be able to "dry out" some of the aiptasia then without destroying the rock we have and also I'll be able to transfer some of it to another tank so it can begin cycling.

 

In any case, I'll try and post some pictures over the weekend. I'm also going to try and meet Keyoke at Blue Ribbon Koi tomorrow to purchase and get a donation of his frogspawn for the tank and my own tank.

 

I'll post when I get a chance again!

[davelin315]

OK, here's the pictures.

 

This is a shot of the sump/refugium with the 6500K 27W Lights of America desklamp that I purchased at Sam's Club. I've been running it 24/7 for a few weeks now and I attribute it and the chaetomorphia I added to the tank as the reason why the nitrates have dropped down from 80+ to 10-15 ppm. I think that a couple of small water changes will do the trick to get rid of the rest of them as well as making sure I limit feedings and don't overdo it. Also, when I add some zoanthids and other nitrate eating corals, I think it'll further improve the water quality.

 

Here's a shot of the light itself that's on the refugium.

 

This is what I rewired the ballast into from davjbeas. It's a fuse box that I removed the guts from. Since it's in a classroom, I rewired the equipment inside of it, screwed it shut, and ran cords out of it. From the fixture to the "ballast box" I used some liquitite electrical conduit, so it's not only flexible, but it doesn't leave the possibility of exposing any wiring to water.

 

Here's what the tank looks like with the metal halides on. The only problem I'm running into now is the loud buzzing from the ballast. I'm trying to figure out how to eliminate that, hopefully it'll happen soon. I'm accustomed to a buzz, but this one's very loud sometimes. Any advice?

 

Here's what I rewired the light into. I took an outdoor floodlight that was designed for a 500W halogen bulb, pulled the guts out of it, drilled a hole in the side to screw in the mogul socket, bent the reflector to accomodate the new bulb, and wired it. It can take the heat of the metal halide and it's weatherproof as well, so it'll keep splashing away while still allowing some heat to vent out the back of it.