Skimmer Problem

[paul b]

For the last 6 months or so I have not been crazy about the production of my skimmer. It just was not hardly putting out enough skimate. The problem was that it was just not producing enough bubbles.

The skimmer is a 5' venturi model built by "Urchin Searchin Ent."

I can't complain to the manufacturer because I own the company.

(No I don't sell skimmers anymore)

The skimmer uses two water pumps and two air pumps. It uses air pumps because of the five foot height it can't pull in air with just the venturi valve.

I am kind of busy so every once in a while I would tinker with a different part to try to fix it. I removed the home made venturi valve and found a large amphipod stuck in it. Removing that helped, but the thing still had very poor action. A few weeks later I opened the venturi again to find another large amphipod. Again I thought I found the problem, but not really.

Some time went by and I re built the both air pumps. They put out what seemed like a lot of air but I could not tell if it was really enough, I tested the preasure which was fine.

That helped very slightly. The thing was really working like a wimp. This skimmer is old, how old? I don't remember, thats how old.

But it is probably older than many members here.

A few days ago I removed the venturi valve and tweeked the design. That actually made it worse.

I had some time today and was looking closely at the collection cup and heard a slight HHHHHHHHIIIIIIISSSSSSS.

Aha. Of course a ten cent tubing coupling had a hair line crack in it.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. I am very mad at myself and should have checked that thing first. Now I am sure I am getting senile. And I would be the first to tell someone, check the easy things first.

The thing is working so well now that the hermit crabs are dancing.

I think they will be on "Dancing with the Starfish" next season

 

Edited September 2, 2010 by paul b

[Vadim]

you should make that into a stripper pole. sheesh i don't know what it is with me and stripper poles.

[paul b]

Maybe it was a stripper pole, you never know

[basser9]

would be pretty simple to add a becket with a long down tube.......hands down the best type of skimmer

 

2 INCH Pipe the best but alot of people just use a 1 inch pvc downdraft tube.......

 

Check out reefcentrals tank of the month on sanjays diy downdraft beckett.....

This skimmer was way better then the  meshmod he tested it against.

Edited September 3, 2010 by basser9

[Origami]

Beckett's are cool. Downdraft skimmers based on these foaming aerators (built for the pond industry) have been around for a while.

 

Paul's setup has been working for him for ages very successfully, though. He built it and it's like an old friend. I don't see him giving it up anytime soon, nor a need to.

 

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk.

[paul b]

Tom, very true, I would never just buy a skimmer. I like to build things exactly to my needs and I want it to be built well, needing no maintenance and last forever. It is part of my hobby. This thing may be 20 years old, maybe 25.

The only part of it that I bought was the pumps and they are even older.

[basser9]

T HE PICS ARE TO SHOW YOU HOW TO ADD THE DOWNDRAFT TUBE TO YOUR SKIMMER that YOU ALL READY HAVE

ITS ABOUT 20 dollars worth of pvc pipe needed.

 

THE BECKETT IS WAY BETTER THEN YOUR VENTURI AND STAYS CLEANER.

Your pumps and skimmer are purfect for the addition of the dd tube and beckett.

Edited September 3, 2010 by basser9

[paul b]

Oh Basser9, OK. I see the pictures but don't understand what that would do to make my skimmer work any better. Mine is a counter current/venturi 5' skimmer that is very efficient. It stays clean and I only cleaned the inside of the acrylic once in about 25 years. The venturi clogged twice with shrimp. That is because the screen I have on my overflow rotted so there is nothing to prevent anything from entering the skimmer. I just need some time to make a new screen.

I have been designing and building skimmers for as long as I had salt water aquariums.

How does the Beckett work?

[Origami]

Paul, a Beckett injector is a pond aerator. It draws air into the housing because of the low pressure of water rushing by (Venturi effect), but, because of some extra mechanical element, it's drawn in from multiple injection sites. This foamy water is typically directed downward into a reaction chamber. I read a small pamphlet on the use of pond aerators in skimmers more than 8 years ago. The aerators have come down in price since then, and you can find them on eBay.

 

A DIY Beckett housing is easy enough to find on the web.

 

If your skimmer's working and doing the job you need it to do, my feeling is why mess with success? If you feel like tinkering with the Beckett idea, here's something that may provide some basic information:

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/fm/index.php

 

About 2/3 the way down, you'll see a picture of a Beckett injector and its innards.

 

Here's a DIY Beckett housing:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=660296

 

This gives you some sense of what's going on in the housing.

 

http://ozreef.org/diy_plans/protein_skimmers/beckett_injector_housing.html

 

Note that the water passes through the housing, while air is drawn in from the outside. By enclosing the Beckett in an outer tube, you can control the air injected via the Beckett using a ball valve or other restriction.

[basser9]

http://www.advanceda...010/1/aafeature

 

Paul i love your type of skimmer as long as it is a smaller one

then the bigger downdraft type are just better to me.

 

This study shows how much better your type and the ETSSdowndraft an dd

beckett are compared to the mesh/needlewheel.

THE machine that test for doc/toc run around 100000 dollars so you

never get a real study based on how skimmers really work at pulling carbon from the water.

 

This is the only real study that i am aware of and it really puts a knife in the heart of the the theory

of cones and neddlewheels as the best skimmers.

 

The 30 day sanjay study is really the thing that should kill the idea about cones verses

ventur/beckett/etss but all i read about from people is how great cones are.

Edited September 3, 2010 by basser9

[paul b]

Thanks Tom and Basser. I remember when the Beckett skimmers came out. They were a big deal especially if you do not have the room for a large column. I didn't realize you could convert a skimmer to a beckett style.

It is obvious, I just never thought about it. My skimmer works about as efficiently as possable because it is so oversized. If I needed to make it more efficient I could just install a larger air pump. There is a very long contact time due to the fact that I installed the inlet lines from the venturi at a large angle so the water swirls all the way up the 5' length of the skimmer.

This skimmer is about my 10th prototype and I think it will remain the way it is. If I ever build another one I ,ay experiment with a beckett operation.

Thanks and have a great day.

Paul

[flowerseller]

...........If I ever build another one I ,ay experiment.........

 

I've heard this before

[flowerseller]

I'm still using the same ole DD I made from a picture in Aquarium Frontiers about 15-16 years ago.

 

 

While it suits me and my 400g system just fine, not everyone has the space most DD's take up.

They also require a large "pressure" pump or properly thought plumbing techniques to apply pressure to it.

I happen to use a hammerhead pump to feed directly to the DD and bleed off to feed my 220, 90g frag tank,

35g rbta farm, fuge, Ca reactor and carbon reactor. One pump for everything on my system.

With 1.5 tube running straight to the dd, it gets what it needs first via force volume and the rest bleeds off that.

[ctenophore]

This is the only real study that i am aware of and it really puts a knife in the heart of the the theory

of cones and neddlewheels as the best skimmers.

 

The 30 day sanjay study is really the thing that should kill the idea about cones verses

ventur/beckett/etss but all i read about from people is how great cones are.

Except that needlewheel/cone skimmers use 1/10th the power and 1/3rd the footprint of a beckett, but pull 75% as much DOC.

[flowerseller]

Anyone here use UV or can prove which is better, t5, PC, MH, or led?

[Coral Hind]

Oh yeah, let's start the debate.

[Origami]

From the above reference, which ran this past January (emphasis added):

 

"However, in the larger picture, it is equally apparent that if an aquarist runs a skimmer continuously (24/7), then any of the skimmers tested would perform adequately in terms of rate of TOC removal; the only practical differences might involve the frequency of skimmer cup cleaning. A perhaps more interesting observation to emerge from these skimmer studies involves not the rate of TOC removal, but rather the amount of TOC removed. None of the skimmers tested removed more than 35% of the extant TOC, leading to the conclusion that bubbles are really not a very effective medium for organic nutrient removal. If fact, the presence of refractory, or unskimmable, TOC, coupled with the likelihood that endogenous TOC consumers (bacteria, among others) also do not remove all of the TOC present (cf. Fig. 4), suggest that in an operational sense, TOC can be categorized as follows:

 

1. TOC that a skimmer removes

2. TOC that a skimmer does not remove

3. TOC that is consumed by microbes

4. TOC that is not consumed by microbes

5. TOC that is (indirectly or directly) harmful to tank livestock

6. TOC that is not harmful to tank livestock

 

The last two categories must be included as a result of recent work of Forest Rohwer (See the January 2009 Advanced Aquarist article for a discussion), and they really highlight why an aquarist might be concerned with rising tank TOC levels. Of course, there will be much overlap between these categories. Ultimately, the crucial question for sustaining aquarium livestock health over the long term is, "How much of the harmful TOC (#5) is removed by either biological consumption or by skimming?" That question remains unanswered at present.

 

As no more than 35% of the total organic carbon (TOC) was removed with any of the skimmer designs, there is an overall accumulation of unskimmable TOC in the water column. Consequently, the study suggested, "Thus, this experiment illustrates the importance of conducting regular water changes as a means to keep organic nutrients in check."

 

Given that a majority of TOC seems to not be subject to skimming, for the average aquarist, water changes would seem to be an important part of aquarium husbandry. I wonder, though, what effect ozone would have on the residual TOC numbers since it could interact with some of these "unskimmable" compounds, breaking them down into potentially skimmable (or at least biologically consumable) compounds.

[flowerseller]

oh yeah I forgot about ozone and which salt is better plus a few others slipping my mind right now other glass or acrylic.

 

Do it the way I do and you'll have no problems since mine is the best way.

[Coral Hind]

You forgot about the big debate...skimmers aren't even needed.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I'm still using the same ole DD I made from a picture in Aquarium Frontiers about 15-16 years ago.

 

 

Can't go wrong with DDs.

[Origami]

oh yeah I forgot about ozone and which salt is better plus a few others slipping my mind right now other glass or acrylic.

 

Do it the way I do and you'll have no problems since mine is the best way.

 

And don't forget: Boxers or briefs?

[ctenophore]

oh yeah I forgot about ozone

 

I really hope Feldman can do a similar study for ozone, and answer some of the questions that Tom posts above.

[flowerseller]

I really hope Feldman can do a similar study for ozone, and answer some of the questions that Tom posts above.

 

boxers or briefs?

[kingfish]

Since this skimmer discussion is hot, I am looking for best value for a 210 gallon tank. I plan on have a medium to heavy bioload. Based on the on going discussions I am leaning toward an asm G4+. I took into consideration power consumption, size (footprint and height) , and the feedback from various members. I don't have Deltec money to spend on a skimmer so best value it is. I want to use one skimmer. Any recommendations? My tank won't be up for at least another month or two. I will be buying everything except the tank over the next couple of months.

[Origami]

Is this for an under-tank (in cabinet) installation? Or do you have more height to give? Perhaps when you consider things, you may look at Avast Marine, too. Talk to Justin (ctenophore) or Dan (dandy7200) to get their reading, too.