Ick outbreak - need help

[bluce]

My Angel and Tang have been using the cleaner shrimps and cleaner wrasse much more than usual the last few days. I checked them again this evening and they appear to have an outbreak of Ich - they look distressed. They still ate ok tonight - I added some minced garlic to the food with selcom.

 

My problem is I don't have a quarantine tank. I have a bottle of API - Super Ick cure that i'm thinking of using.

 

My tank is 76 gallons and contains: 2 clowns, 1 yellow tang (has ich), 1 koran angel (has ich), 1 cleaner wrasse, 1 mandarin, 2 cleaner shrimps, 1 boxer shrimp.

I also have some mushrooms, a green star polyp, some Frog Spawn, and a small ricordia. I'm worried about the corals, shrimp, and crabs if i use API - super ick.

 

I was thinking that I could remove the tang and angel - give them a fresh water dip with methylene blue, and treat the tank with the API and raise the tanks temperature.

 

Anyone think the corals will be affected? The bottle doesn't indicate that it contains copper, but it does say it may not be safe for reef tanks.

 

Thanks in advance - help is appreciated,

 

Brian

[davelin315]

If there's a risk, don't use it. "May not be safe" sounds an awful lot to me like "this will kill all corals and inverts"...

 

My advice is not to move the fish right now but to simply continue feeding them healthy foods so that they can recover (if you're sure it's ich). Sounds awful and sometimes you'll lose fish, but if they are eating, give them a chance to recover. My tank always has ich in it, but the fish are healthy enough to fight it off.

 

FYI, I have never understood why people raise the temperature in a tank that has ich. I understand that it may speed up the life cycle of the ich a bit, but the increased temperature coupled with the decreased oxygen level in the tank seems counterproductive to me as it will stress the fish out more and cause them to be less healthy. Personally, I'd rather go colder in the tank than warmer (within reason of course).

[Coral Hind]

You could setup a simple 30g rubbermaid tub with a powerhead and treat all the fish in there. Do the treatment as directed which should be complete in a week but keep the fish out of the main tank for at least a month. That will allow the ich in the tank to die from lack of a host.

 

I totally agree with what Dave said above. The bottle may say to raise the temp to 82F as some bottles do but I don't recommend it as the higher temp limits dissolved O2. The last thing you want when a fish has ich on their gills is to limit the O2.

[scott711]

I have had minor cases of ich in the past with several tangs and have always just fed high quality foods and make sure the fish is real healthy. I make a homemade fish food that is loaded with vitamins that works like a charm. I don't like trying to catch the fish since this will cause added stress.

Edited July 15, 2010 by scott711

[BowieReefer84]

I have had minor cases of ich in the past with several tangs and have always just fed high quality foods and make sure the fish is real healthy. I make a homemade fish food that is loaded with vitamins that works like a charm. I don't like trying to catch the fish since this will cause added stress.

 

 

+1 to Scotts food To think I only fed pellets....

[Biscuit]

Another +1 to Scotts food. Bought some from him at Frag Fest and the fish are loving it, not that ive had an ich problem though (knock on wood...)

[bluce]

Thanks for the input and advice - I already did the first dose of API on the evening I posted. I didn't want to wait as it appeared that as I was watching the tank the 2 fish were actually getting more white specs on them!

 

The main ingredient in API to kill Ich is malachite green - Since this doesn't contain copper and I don't have too many corals I decided to do it. The corals don't seem to have been affected (yet).

It's been 48 hours so I think I will follow through and do 1 more dose, as this is a 2 dose treatment. I can see both sides to keeping the temp normal versus raising it. I think if the fish are not having problems breathing due to the Ich at the time of treatment, then it would be better to raise the temperature a bit as you are trying to hasten the lifecycle of this parasite and it might be better to kill them in 2 treatments than have to do a third treatment. If the fish were having trouble breathing, then I would follow the advice of the board and not stress them out any more with a temp raise.

 

They are also eating nori seaweed for sushi, which I think is a good sign. Next time I go to a WAMAS function I will try to get some homemade fish food from Scott! I'll let the board know how it goes.

 

*I feel I should warn our members that Pristine Aquarium may have some infected fish right now. This whole issue started after I bought a cowfish from them that had a few spots - i noticed this after I added him to my main tank and saw he wasn't doing so well. He was lethargic and had buoyancy issues - I know this is partly my fault as I should have inspected him more carefully and I should have quarantined him. I wasn't thinking of Ich - I was worried he was sick and would poison the tank. I took him out to a quarantine container after the fact, and he died shortly there after. My whole Ich issue started 1 - 2 days later. My suspicion was confirmed when I went back to Pristine to get more RO water and activated carbon. I looked at the same display tank that the cowfish I bought was in, and a new fish there had the white spots on it. I told the guy at the store to look and he agreed it looked like Ich on the fish.

 

Lesson learned - I will quarantine all fish - I just got too trusting of Pristine.

If this happens again or any other fish get it, I think I will follow David's advice and get the rubber maid container and put all the fish in for treatment.

[BowieReefer84]

How large is your tank? Tang's do not do well in smaller sized tanks. I put a yellow tang in my 29gal when I was just getting into the hobby, and didn't realize it was a mistake. The fish died. Now all my fish are very small fish.

 

edit: tank is 76 gallons. Nevermind. Sorry didn't read the whole post.

Edited July 15, 2010 by BowieReefer84

[zygote2k]

Here's the best advice on how to deal with ick-

 

1) It's always present in your tank. It can be brought out from fluctuating water chemistry, so the best way to not get it is to keep your parameters right.

 

2) Only buy fish from LFS's that have a QT system. Even if the fish has no ick after QT, it could still get it upon introduction to your tank.

 

3) Your fish in the tank have ick. Absolutely do not put any chemical other than supplements into your tank. Make sure the fish have plenty of variety in their diets and feed them. Trying to catch a fish to place in QT almost always leads to sicker or dead fish.

If they are healthy enough, they'll do just fine where they are at.

 

4) If you have the room and money, set up a QT system and maintain good QT practices. Your fish still might get ick when they go into the DT.

[treesprite]

The last time my fish had ich, I did not take them out, did not treat them. I just fed them as usual and did extra water changes, fish got better on their own. The longer I'm in this hobby, the more conservative I become in the use of treatments, chemicals, and removing fish from the DT once they've already been put into it - all those things stress the fish out, thereby lowering immunity and making it harder for the fish to recover from infections.

[bluce]

Bad news - After treating the tank with the API Super Ich it looked like things cleared up.

Unfortunately they did not. A second outbreak happened 3 days ago, and my Angel died :(

The clowns also looked like they had also got it. I decided copper was my last option - so I'm currently following Coral's advice.

I got a 30 gallon rubber made, a heater, a florescent light resting on top, a rotating power head with an air intake - I thought this would be enough. I'm planning on doing a 1 gallon change every other day since there isn't any filter.

 

I caught the fish that were left 2 days ago - 1 yellow tang, 2 clowns, and a mandarin. Got them all from the DT and put in the QT and added the copper. The fish didn't eat the first day, but seemed to be adjusting ok.

This am 1 clown was dead :( and my 2nd clown doesn't look so good.

 

I'm guessing that the stress of catching them after they were sick might have done them in. Doing nothing was not an option - I know people here have advocated just feeding them and hoping, but when the fish got Ich, it wasn't just a few spots, it was all over their body and imo this would have gotten them eventually. I think I should have moved them at the very first sign to the QT and skipped the API Super Ich in the DT and use the copper immediately. They would have been healthier when moved and had a better chance than moving them when they were weaker. Not really sure.

 

This part of the hobby sucks - i have a feeling that all fish will be gone soon.

Lessons learned: The API Super Ich cure isn't so super - didn't work at all. Treat all fish at first sign of Ich, before they get weak by the parasite.

Pristine Aquariums isn't much better than any other shop - need to QT all fish before putting them in my DT

 

 

Anyway thanks for the advice.

 

 

 

[Jon Lazar]

Sorry to hear about losing your fish to ich...it stinks, and many of have been there.

 

At this point, I would also closely monitor your QT tank for ammonia. I doubt that a 1g water change every other day will do enough, but a small HOB filter might do better. Good luck.

[BowieReefer84]

Sorry to hear about losing your fish to ich...it stinks, and many of have been there.

 

At this point, I would also closely monitor your QT tank for ammonia. I doubt that a 1g water change every other day will do enough, but a small HOB filter might do better. Good luck.

 

 

Use a HOB with POLYFILTER. It's my favorite.

[bluce]

I took your advice - I purchased a HOB Tetra Whisper EX 30 - I removed the carbon to make sure I'm not filtering out the copper. The ammonia is very low, not quite zero, but it should be fine.

My yellow tang seems to be recovering - finally. The manadarin seems ok, but not really eating much - if any. I will probably end up keeping them in the QT for 30 more days to make sure that my main tank has been fallow long enought where all traces of ICH will be gone.

Does anyone have any ideas to help supplement the mandarin until i get him back into the DT? I put in live brine shrimps, but right now the mandarin doesn't seem interested at all - I know he loves copepods. Not sure if they would last in there for any length of time, since the water has been treated with copper.

 

Thanks for the input.