DaveS February 18, 2010 Share February 18, 2010 I've been struggling with the bulb choices for a couple of months now. I have three newer IceCap 400W ballasts with SE Lumenbright pendants. I've run the Radiums in the past and while I like them, they are just a little bit too blue for me. Actually I think they make the colors pop just a little bit too much- a tiny bit unnatural for me. I've seen various comparisons here before but problems were: a) they used a different ballast than mine b) they used a different wattage than mine c) they used old bulbs compared to new bulbs d) they used different colors than what I was interested in As you know bulbs will have different performance depending on ballast, wattage, age and spectrum so lots of apples and oranges here... I got inspired by Ryan's thread and decided to spend some time and figure some of this out for myself. I'm not Sanjay so my goal wasn't to provide answers to every situation, just ones that could be applicable to me. In particular, I'm cheap and interested in some of the cheaper bulbs so I focused on the Plusrite line hoping that one of them would work for me. I used a few brand name bulbs I had laying around or borrowed purely as a baseline. Here's what I had to work with (all SE 400W): New Radium New Ushio 20k New Plusrite 14k New Plusrite 20k 13 month old Aquamckzo 20K (from trust_deals on eBay) Even though it's old, I included the eBay bulb because I have a decent recollection of what it looked like when it was new. Ignore that data point if you want a more pure comparison. Here's what I did: Very simple visual comparison with just a few quantitative data points. I had the Radium as the primary control on the right side. On the left, I switched the bulbs out. I took PAR measurements at 6" and 12" underwater. The reflectors were 17" above the water. To get the measurements, after a 30 minute burn in, I moved the PAR sensor around at the appropriate depth until I got a peak reading. I eyeballed the bulb in the reflector and didn't do anything fancy to ensure the bulb was perfectly centered in the reflector. Also, on the left side, the 12" measurement can't be compared to the 12" measurement on the right side. My rockwork got in the way so it may be off. However, among the left side measurements, the 12" sample should be fairly comparable. Control: Radium PAR readings: 610 (6") and 430 (12") Aquamckzo 20K vs. Radium Aquamckzo PAR readings: 430 (6") and 330 (12") It should be noted that the Aquamckzo bulb was significantly brighter and bluer when new Plusrite 14k vs. Radium Plusrite 14k PAR readings: 778 (6") and 560 (12") Plusrite20k vs. Radium Plusrite 20k PAR readings: 477 (6") and 350 (12") Ushio20k vs. Radium Ushio 20K PAR readings: 530 (6") and 382 (12") PAR Summary 6" 12" Radium 610 430 old Aquamckzo 20k 430 330 Plusrite 14k 778 560 Plusrite 20k 477 350 Ushio 20K 530 382 Observations: The Plusrite 20K gave a comparable color to the Radium but was noticeably dimmer. The Ushio 20K was actually bluer than the Radium which was whiter in comparison. The Plusrite 14K was slightly whiter than the Radium. The Aquamckzo 20K was yellower and dimmer than the Radium but given it's age, that is not a surprise. When it was new, the Aquamckzo 20K was less yellow but still more yellow than the Plusrite 14K. I had a new Aquamckzo 14K but didn't bother documenting it as it was comparable to a Ushio 10K and not what I wanted. Conclusion: From blue to yellow coloration, on an IceCap 400W ballast, I would rank the bulbs in the following order. Ushio20K Radium Plusrite 20k Plusrite 14K Aquamckzo 20k Aquamckzo 14K/Ushio10K However the Plusrite 20K, while similar in color to the Radium and 1/6th the price, was severely lacking in PAR. It had output similar to a 9 month old Radium. A secondary conclusion is that the Aquamckzo bulbs, while decent in PAR have very different spectral output than their labels would indicate. Get a 20K if you want 14k color, 14k if you want 10K, etc. Based on the above, I'm going to go with Plusrite 14K bulbs for now. They seem to be the right color and intensity for me. Not bad for a $13 bulb!!! As a second choice, I would go with either Radiums or Aquamckzo 20Ks depending on if I wanted to go more or less blue. It should be remembered that this experiment was done with only one bulb for each specimen. Any variation between identical bulbs in production is not addressed. Also, it is unknown what will happen over time as these bulbs age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 February 18, 2010 Share February 18, 2010 Want to know what I noticed? Your fish chose one side of the tank versus the other when they are in the 20,000K lights and they choose to be under the brace when they're under the 10,000K bulbs... is that a trend you noticed or just coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 18, 2010 Author Share February 18, 2010 I didn't keep track but I suspect my fish chose the side they last saw me on because they think they will get fed there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind February 18, 2010 Share February 18, 2010 A secondary conclusion is that the Aquamckzo bulbs, while decent in PAR have very different spectral output than their labels would indicate. Get a 20K if you want 14k color, 14k if you want 10K, etc. Thanks for sharing your findings. I definately agree with the spectral output of the Aquamckzo bulbs being over rated. Like what you said, if you want a certain kelvin rating you need to buy the next higher one. From your findings I think I will be ordering some Plusrite 14k's and giving them a try. At that price you could change them out a lot sooner keeping a more stable PAR value for the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 18, 2010 Share February 18, 2010 Great experiment, Dave. I'm looking at the numbers, as I'm inclined to do. Things look very consistent in terms of relative PAR at the two levels. Can you tell me how high the bulb is off the surface of the water? It would also be good to see how the bulb performs (PAR) over time. Maybe you could take measurements over time and post results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward February 18, 2010 Share February 18, 2010 It said the reflector is 17" above the water. The bulb is another 3"-4" inside the reflector. So about 20". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 18, 2010 Share February 18, 2010 It said the reflector is 17" above the water. The bulb is another 3"-4" inside the reflector. So about 20". Thanks, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watson_barrett February 19, 2010 Share February 19, 2010 I've now ran all spectrums in my LBs powered by coralvues(400w). I think i'm going to try the radiums next. I don't like how you get an almost glare from the 10 and 12k in the LBs. It is soooooooooooooo bright centrally with the 10k's it almost hard to even look at the tank without being irritated. My favorite bulb i have ran so far is the aquaconnect 14k but that was when i had just 1 bulb to buy and they are VERY expensive comparitavely but i definately had the best coral color ever with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S February 19, 2010 Share February 19, 2010 (edited) H-E-double hockey sticks yea! Plusrite 14k's for the win! Great experiment! Thanks for taking the time to do it. Only thing you could add to make the comparison even more valuable, in my opinion, is the cost per bulb. Then calculate something like $/PAR for each bulb. I am sure the plusrite would be leagues ahead of the rest in that comparison as well. Best PAR of the bunch (by quite a bit!): PAR Summary 6" 12" Radium 610 430 old Aquamckzo 20k 430 330 Plusrite 14k 778 560 Plusrite 20k 477 350 Ushio 20K 530 382 That's what I'm talking about! And truth be told, if you prefer a more blue (20k) tank, all you need to do is supplement the plusrite 14k's with some actinic T5's and you'll be there - color and excellent PAR, with $13 bulbs!! -Ryan Edited February 19, 2010 by Ryan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watson_barrett February 19, 2010 Share February 19, 2010 (edited) where did you get the Plusrite 14k bulbs from??? would def be intersted in giving them a wing but they do see a little brighter looking than my liking, didn't realize they were only 13, wow! Edited February 19, 2010 by watson_barrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S February 19, 2010 Share February 19, 2010 where did you get the Plusrite 14k bulbs from??? would def be intersted in giving them a wing but they do see a little brighter looking than my liking, didn't realize they were only 13, wow! http://www.1000bulbs.com/400-Watt-Metal-Halide-Aquarium-Lamps/43031/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 19, 2010 Author Share February 19, 2010 I've now ran all spectrums in my LBs powered by coralvues(400w). I think i'm going to try the radiums next. I don't like how you get an almost glare from the 10 and 12k in the LBs. It is soooooooooooooo bright centrally with the 10k's it almost hard to even look at the tank without being irritated. My favorite bulb i have ran so far is the aquaconnect 14k but that was when i had just 1 bulb to buy and they are VERY expensive comparitavely but i definately had the best coral color ever with them. How high is your reflector? Remember that that LBs are more focused than others, even the Lumenarcs. The idea is that you can/should raise them up higher to provide some of the additional spread and reduce the spotlight. This has the added benefit of reducing heat transfer into the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 19, 2010 Author Share February 19, 2010 H-E-double hockey sticks yea! Plusrite 14k's for the win! Great experiment! Thanks for taking the time to do it. Only thing you could add to make the comparison even more valuable, in my opinion, is the cost per bulb. Then calculate something like $/PAR for each bulb. I am sure the plusrite would be leagues ahead of the rest in that comparison as well. Best PAR of the bunch (by quite a bit!): PAR Summary 6" 12" Radium 610 430 old Aquamckzo 20k 430 330 Plusrite 14k 778 560 Plusrite 20k 477 350 Ushio 20K 530 382 That's what I'm talking about! And truth be told, if you prefer a more blue (20k) tank, all you need to do is supplement the plusrite 14k's with some actinic T5's and you'll be there - color and excellent PAR, with $13 bulbs!! -Ryan Ryan, Doing the experiment was no big deal because I needed to get answers that couldn't be found elsewhere. Documenting and sharing the results is where the bigger effort was but I didn't mind as I want to contribute back for all the great info I've gotten from the work of others. Your research into Plusrite and 1000bulbs.com being a good example. Yes, doing a cost/PAR calculation is another way to analyze the data. However, it may not be as useful as you might think. For $13, the Plusrite could put out a PAR of 200 and still have the lowest cost/PAR. However, a 200 PAR bulb isn't very useful for corals so that doesn't make for a good decision factor. But as can be seen from the data, the Plusrite does clearly offer a lot of PAR. If I had a new Aquamckzo bulb, there is a good chance it would have put out the same, possibly higher PAR. But the color isn't as good for me. Regarding more blue, I am hoping to avoid relying on actinic supplementation. At 400W, it's pretty difficult to get T5s to provide enough intensity to do much supplementation. Maybe with 10K it would be easier to notice since it's such a different spectrum but at 14K, the T5's tend to get overpowered. Anyways, as it stands right now, I'm very happy with the Plusrite 14K option. Now that I have some data recorded, I should be able to track how things change over time. Should be interesting! Thanks again Ryan for the inspiration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 20, 2010 Share February 20, 2010 Maybe you could do an LED comparison.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 20, 2010 Author Share February 20, 2010 Maybe you could do an LED comparison.... Maybe... All someone would need is to provide the fixture and different bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S February 20, 2010 Share February 20, 2010 Maybe you could do an LED comparison.... I look forward to the day that a study is done comparing T5/MH/LED side by side, with PAR and cost taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watson_barrett March 6, 2010 Share March 6, 2010 How high is your reflector? Remember that that LBs are more focused than others, even the Lumenarcs. The idea is that you can/should raise them up higher to provide some of the additional spread and reduce the spotlight. This has the added benefit of reducing heat transfer into the tank. when the bulbs were bran new, i had the bulbs at 20". I think I have them down to about 17" now. Thanks for the site and you effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watson_barrett March 6, 2010 Share March 6, 2010 also, any idea how/ why these bulbs are only $15 compared to the "same" bulb that goes for up to $130??? any idea how long they will hold thier PAR for or how reliable they are? I just had an xm 10k bulb burn out/stopped working after only 5 months use!!! Never even heard of this happening before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watson_barrett March 19, 2010 Share March 19, 2010 ??? any idea how/ why these bulbs are only $15 compared to the "same" bulb that goes for up to $130??? Is anyone using these right now for sps tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS March 19, 2010 Author Share March 19, 2010 no idea why they are so much cheaper than the $130 bulbs. I'm using them for my SPS tank right now. I plan to take additional measurements to determine lifespan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind March 19, 2010 Share March 19, 2010 ??? any idea how/ why these bulbs are only $15 compared to the "same" bulb that goes for up to $130??? Is anyone using these right now for sps tank? You have seen my display tank, what do you think of it? I have never paid more then $15 for a MH bulb. I would guess the price difference is because of the targeted market. Plusrite is a company that makes all kinds of bulbs for general and industrial use just like GE or Sylvania . They do not specialize in just hobby products. The bulbs cost big bucks because hobbiest believe the hype, trust the brand name, see the TOTM guy using that bulb, or have no idea the cheaper options are available. I like Icecap and their three year warranty but the only products they offer that are American made and not from Asia are the 430 and 660 ballasts as well as T5 lamps. Everything else is imported and the price is jacked up on. I am currently running the Plusrite 250w 14kK bulbs over my tank. No complaints at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 19, 2010 Share March 19, 2010 I look forward to the day that a study is done comparing T5/MH/LED side by side, with PAR and cost taken into account. On my own experiences with MH vs LED, the PAR value of my LED's are slightly lower than that of the 400w mh, but the SPS is growing faster under the LED than the MH. The Mh added heat to the water and the LED does not. Both of them were suspended about 8" above the tank. If you do a cost comparison for 1 year, the LED's cost $300 and the fixture was $50. It only uses 96w for 12hrs/day. The MH fixture costs $250 and the bulbs cost $60. It uses 464w for 12 hrs/day. The halide uses 5 times the amount of electricity per month and all the bulbs will have to be replaced on a yearly basis. If you ask me, it's a no brainer as to which type of lighting to use. I know everyone in this hobby likes to only believe what the market tells them, so in a few years, you'll realize that LED is the way to go even if halide bulbs cost $1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watson_barrett March 24, 2010 Share March 24, 2010 thanks for the putting the price tag into perspective everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS July 13, 2010 Author Share July 13, 2010 Just a quick update. When I installed my bulbs on 2/26/10, I took the following PAR measurements 12" below the surface. Left side 485 Right side 530 I just took another quick measurement to see how my bulbs were doing and if they need replacement. Today 7/13/10 about 5 months later: Left side 465 Right side 510 Guess I won't be replacing them quite so soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH July 15, 2010 Share July 15, 2010 (edited) I am currently running the Plusrite 250w 14kK bulbs over my tank. No complaints at all. N/M. Edited July 15, 2010 by CHUBAKAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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