Sam's 350 gallon system

[davelin315]

I stand corrected, Tominis are smaller than the Kole, but I feel that from looking at the body shape, they seem to be longer "swimmers" than the Kole. The orangeshoulder, by the way, grows to over 1'.

[L8 2 RISE]

Wave bye bye to that copperband if you add a powder blue. Mine killed off a copperband in my 300 and it certainly has enough other fish to spar with...

 

Where's an updated picture of the cube for the cuttle eggs?

 

I would stick with the Kole instead of the Tomini, personal preference. I don't think they're all that pretty to look at and the Kole is an easier to care for fish and stays smaller I believe. The orange shoulder tangs seem to be sensitive and grow rather large as well.

 

Ok then, powder blues out of the picture. I'm really not too bothered by tangs, and if I add another one or replace the kole, it'll be the last change I make. As for the cube, I don't have that yet, I'm going to get it from jamesbuf when he's done with it. For the eggs and hatchlings, I have the 20 set up for them. There's two net breeders in the 20 that will house the eggs and the cuttles until they are about 2-3 weeks of age, then they'll go into the 20 until about 1-2 months, by then I should have another tank set up on the corner that I'll split them between, and then once I'm able to sex them, I'll put 4-5 into the 2*2*2 cube (1-2 male, the rest female) and sell any that I have left over.

 

Also, for the record, I find Tomini's pretty attractive . I don't know what I'll do yet, so we'll wait and see. As for the orange shoulder, I read in a few places of people keeping them in smaller tanks as juvi's because apparently they aren't the fastest growing tang, though I wouldn't want to house it in a tank too small for it even as a juvi, so I'll see.

[davelin315]

Orangeshoulders like a lot of room to swim. I had one in school in the 75 long which is 5' and it was cramped in there I felt. The rock was set up to run the length of the tank allowing a lot of room to swim and it didn't seem comfortable in this system.

[L8 2 RISE]

ok, nix the orange shoulder. Cuttle eggs should be at the cali LFS tuesday or wednesday, so fingers crossed!

[L8 2 RISE]

Well I've never been more excited to spend the amount of money I just did in my life!! On the way are:

3 multibar angelfish!!!!!

a pearly jawfish

a tail spot blenny

3 purple queen anthias

a yellow coris wrasse

and a ritteri anemoni.

[Sikryd]

Congrats! Nice little order you placed

[L8 2 RISE]

And now the cuttle eggs are on the way, to arrive Friday, Saturday, Monday or Tuesday, still working that out. And about twice the eggs that I originally planned. Told you all it would be a great month!

[L8 2 RISE]

Well, had some issues with the fish (see here: http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...=34744&hl=) so ended up with just the multibars for now. They're in the 20 gallon until they start eating bellets, then I'll put them in the display. Also issues with the cuttle eggs. The supplier didn't have them for the LFS out in Cali, but they should have them pretty soon. Some pics for now:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Those fish look great.

 

The quest you went through to get them just makes you appreciate them more.

 

Were they very expensive?

[Sikryd]

Awesome specimens Sam!!! They're a nice size too. That'll be fun to watch them grow up.

[davelin315]

Be careful of the jagged edges on those PVC pipes, if the angels get itchy and scratch on those they could hurt themselves. Also, that appears to be plumbed into your system with the overflows and returns that I think I see behind the egg crate - if that's the case, then I would put rock in there instead of the PVC as the point of the PVC is to provide them with places to hide if you're going to treat them for disease so that the rock doesn't get medicated or infected. Having rock in there will help them to feed. I'd also avoid having as much light over that tank as you do. The less light with a picky angel the better, at least in my experience. Not sure what they are supposed to look like, but the 3rd picture makes the one in the tube look pretty skinny as the middle of the fish along the spine is sticking out and then it tapers away at an angle, making the fish seem a bit emaciated. Have you dewormed them for internal parasites and dipped them for flukes? If they are coming from a wholesaler I would do that right away before you introduce them into your system. A good freshwater dip will help to see if there's flukes on them, which the vertical swimming exhibited by the two in the corner seems to be indicative of from the incredibly limited knowledge I have on that. Lack of appetite could be attributed to flukes or parasites. You can also try the Thera-A pellets which are non-medicated but are supposed to help stop internal parasites. I can't attest to its effectiveness but do have some.

 

Nice looking fish, overall, but they definitely look to be in need of some food from what I can tell, again, though, with inexperienced eyes for that type of fish.

 

What type of feeding regimen are you keeping?

[davelin315]

Sam, saw that you lost one over on RC. If these are deepwater fish, I wonder if heavier water would help them acclimate easier. Maybe someone with more knowledge will weigh in. If you increase the salinity and therefore make the water heavier, will this help to mimic, albeit to a very small measure, the increased pressure of deeper waters?

[L8 2 RISE]

Sorry, having trouble keeping up with all the threads I have on these guys, lol. Yes, one of them did die yesterday, not sure what it was yet, seems that it must have been a bacterial infection, or something messed up with decompression.

 

Be careful of the jagged edges on those PVC pipes, if the angels get itchy and scratch on those they could hurt themselves. Also, that appears to be plumbed into your system with the overflows and returns that I think I see behind the egg crate - if that's the case, then I would put rock in there instead of the PVC as the point of the PVC is to provide them with places to hide if you're going to treat them for disease so that the rock doesn't get medicated or infected. Having rock in there will help them to feed. I'd also avoid having as much light over that tank as you do. The less light with a picky angel the better, at least in my experience. Not sure what they are supposed to look like, but the 3rd picture makes the one in the tube look pretty skinny as the middle of the fish along the spine is sticking out and then it tapers away at an angle, making the fish seem a bit emaciated. Have you dewormed them for internal parasites and dipped them for flukes? If they are coming from a wholesaler I would do that right away before you introduce them into your system. A good freshwater dip will help to see if there's flukes on them, which the vertical swimming exhibited by the two in the corner seems to be indicative of from the incredibly limited knowledge I have on that. Lack of appetite could be attributed to flukes or parasites. You can also try the Thera-A pellets which are non-medicated but are supposed to help stop internal parasites. I can't attest to its effectiveness but do have some.

 

Nice looking fish, overall, but they definitely look to be in need of some food from what I can tell, again, though, with inexperienced eyes for that type of fish.

 

What type of feeding regimen are you keeping?

 

I didn't put rock in because I wanted to easily be able to clean the tank, however now that you mention it, the rock probably would have helped relieve stress, though none's going to go in now because it looks like I'm going to have to get into treatment stage now. Yes, it is plumbed into the main system, but takes all of a turn of one ball valve to take it off. I see what you mean about looking pretty skinny, and when I get home I'll check again, but I've been looking, and I was surprised by how fat they seemed, though maybe I'm just not looking at it right, I'll check when I get home though. I haven't done anything for the fish, just put them in the tank. I took the pictures when I first put the fish in the tank, and they were doing that a bit, but I think it was just them getting used to the tank/ those are the only pics that came out . I haven't really noticed much verticle swimming, but I'll check later. I haven't got them eating yet, unfortuneatly, so maybe they do have parasites. I'll see what sort of medication I'm going to have to do when I get home, and will probably start with a fresh water dip, then run out and get some furan II or something and medicate them. Thanks for the help, it's given me some good idea's on what to check for.

 

Sam, saw that you lost one over on RC. If these are deepwater fish, I wonder if heavier water would help them acclimate easier. Maybe someone with more knowledge will weigh in. If you increase the salinity and therefore make the water heavier, will this help to mimic, albeit to a very small measure, the increased pressure of deeper waters?

I don't know, I'll throw it out there on RC though.

[Origami]

Regarding density of salt water and depth, here's something I found: http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/ear...ml&edu=high

 

As you see from the text, temperature affects the density of salt water more than the salinity does.

 

As for simulating depth, I'm not sure we can do much more than change the lighting. Certainly a topic worth researching if you're interested.

[L8 2 RISE]

Thanks for the article! Oh yeah, forgot to mention the tank just looks bright because of the flash. Really, it's almost completely dark and only has a little spill over light from the display.

[davelin315]

Fish can have heart attacks, so I would avoid any bright lights such as flashes or turning the room lights on and off. You may want to get some of that window tint and put it on the outside of the tank so that the fish are in a darker tank but so that you can see them. Since they are deep water, should they be housed at a lower temperature as well? I have a mini-chiller (ice probe) if you need to borrow it, but no controller for it. It's good on a small tank for a few degrees. Also, I have some spare tanks in the garage if you need to borrow one for QT. I'd still go with rock in the QT as some of the treatments you're talking about are still considered reef safe. I thought that prazipro and bacterial stuff is reef safe but haven't used them myself.

[L8 2 RISE]

Fish can have heart attacks, so I would avoid any bright lights such as flashes or turning the room lights on and off. You may want to get some of that window tint and put it on the outside of the tank so that the fish are in a darker tank but so that you can see them. Since they are deep water, should they be housed at a lower temperature as well? I have a mini-chiller (ice probe) if you need to borrow it, but no controller for it. It's good on a small tank for a few degrees. Also, I have some spare tanks in the garage if you need to borrow one for QT. I'd still go with rock in the QT as some of the treatments you're talking about are still considered reef safe. I thought that prazipro and bacterial stuff is reef safe but haven't used them myself.

 

Ok, I'll avoid doing it again. The room really doesn't ever have bright light ever, the light is very dull, so I think it should be fine as long as I don't use flash . As far as temperature, the literature I can find (and there is not much) suggests that they are fine in regular tank temps, however will also live in tanks down to 72. Also, it appears they're somewhat commonly found at 7 meters however tend to be more in the 20-70meter range. Thanks a lot for the offer, but I don't think I'll need it TBH. When I do get home, I'll put them each in different sections of the tank, put a few rocks in each side, and take the tank out of the system (just have to turn a ball valve). I'll then head out and pick up some furan II or Maracyn 2. Should I also do a FW dip? How does this sound? Any suggestions on how to get them to eat?

 

Thanks again for all the help, and I'll definitely check all of the things you mentioned (in terms of behavior/looks) when I get home.

[davelin315]

Again, not an expert on these guys but a freshwater dip might be a good thing to try as long as they're not overly stressed out already. The dip would be to alleviate any flukes or external parasites that might be bothering them, but it won't cure them of anything. You have to weigh the value of finding any evidence of flukes versus the stress of dipping them. It might help guide you as well on what to do regarding medicating. If they show signs of flukes then you'll definitely want to follow up and medicate, but you're also going to need to medicate your tank now as they're in it... I'd carefully monitor the health of the fish overall and perhaps shoot one of our local vendors a PM for advice. You might get chided a little bit for going online, but they're good people and will help you out regardless. Plus, you'll need somewhere to buy the medication. Prazipro, from what I understand by the way, is pond medication, but it works well in marine applications.

[L8 2 RISE]

I can't remember where I left off with these, but I did a FW dip on the remaining two, and all was well for a couple days, but one had a bump on different locations on each side. Two days later, it's on its side with what looked like pulled cotton coming out of the bumps. Needless to say, it died, so I was left with one. The one hasn't eaten anything prepared yet, and aside from being very skinny, it was fine until last weekend (30/31) when I noticed that it had what looked like the tails of worms coming out of it all over it's body. I called copps up and he said that with it not eating in so long, it was probably a gonner, and he wasn't sure what the worm things were. He said it probably would have been best to have thrown him in the fuge a few days before, and at this point there probably wasn't much left to do, especially with the worms. I still wanted to try, so since I only had a kole tang in the system at the time, I threw it in the fuge and crossed my fingers. It hung out underneath a pipe that has a ton of bubbles coming from it because it comes from the DT. After a few days, it seemed that it had cured its own problem because the worms were gone, so my theory is that there was too much oxygen or bubbles or something . Anyways, two or three days ago, it disappeared, so I thought the worst and wasn't too surprised. To make a long story short, today I was having some "eel trouble" that ended with a flying eel landing in the refugium and a VERY startled multibar angel darting out of the rocks as the eel went by. Again, to make a long story short, after a several hour struggle, the eel made it back in the DT, very surprisingly, unharmed. As for the angel, it looks pretty healthy, I think it may have gotten a little less thin, but I'm not sure. Still not holding out hope.

 

Also today, I got another shipment from NYaquatic with my store credit from the two dead multibars. I got two allardi clowns which you don't see too often, and they're absolutely gorgeous, a midas blenny, and I was going to get a two spot hogfish that he had had for over two months, but of course, it disappeared the day he shipped. I also got 5 gold and black damsels for the school tank, though one jumped out of the specimen container and into the tank while I was temp acclimating, so wish me luck catching that. I've added some pics of them all, but the female clown also jumped right before I took the first pic, but it doesn't matter because she doesn't look the best- a few torn fins, not as good color, etc. LMK what you all think!

 

Sorry about the micro bubbles. The water was low due to the amount I had to use acclimating all the fish, and I have a little bit of one anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

And in the tank:

 

 

 

The Damsels (all but the one that jumped are in the 20 until we go back to school):

 

 

 

Also, on a side note, the LFS that I'm getting my cuttles from out in California is supposed to get a bunch in on Wednesday, so I should recieve my eggs by the end of next week. Planning on 15-20 to start with.

[jason the filter freak]

Updates?

[L8 2 RISE]

I can't remember when I left off with this thread, so I'll go back a ways. None of the multibars ended up making it. I'll try again at some point from a better source, but right now I don't have the money and I'm pretty busy.

 

I finally managed to get my cuttlefish from the LFS in California after they picked some up from there supplier. They sent 20-25 eggs and two cuttlefish that had hatched the day before shipping. There were three bags, two with 10-12 eggs each, and one with two cuttlefish. Upon arrival, 5 of the eggs had hatched in each of the bags, and one of the bags was very cloudy from what I now presume to be inking by one or more of the cuttlefish on the trip. Both the eggs and already hatched cuttles in this bag looked pretty bad right off the back, but they all went into one net breeder after acclimation. In the other bag, the already hatched cuttles looked alright, but the eggs looked great, so they went into a different net breeder. Within the first weekend, I'd lost all but 1-2 of the cuttlefish that had hatched (in both bags) during shipping. After about 2 weeks, all of the eggs had hatched and I'd lost my final cuttlefish (so far) and the result was that not a single cuttle that was out of the egg during shipping survived, and only 1 of the cuttlefish that hatched from the bag that was inked in survived. From the other bag, 5 have made it so far. That leaves six total cuttlefish which is exactly how many I wanted to end up with, so the hope is that all of them survive. They're eating one amphipod per night (that I watch to make sure each one eats) and then I leave several amphipods in the breeder for them to snack on later. I still haven't managed to get them on frozen because they aren't yet big enough to take a standard PE mysis. What I've learned so far is that during shipping, 1, the eggs should be shipped about a week earlier in developement, and 2, they should be shipped less densely (so only 3-4 eggs per bag as opposed to a bunch).

 

I've also become an amphipod catching expert http://www.wamas.org/forums/topic/36502-guaranteed-way-to-catch-pods/page__pid__313699__st__0entry313699

 

Also, thanks a TON to Dave Lin for his help with taking the time to provide pods and mysis galore from his system.

[Supreme Reefs]

Looking good!

 

How is that durso stand pipe working out for you? Is it really silent?

[L8 2 RISE]

The stand pipe itself is silent, but the small overflow into the overflow box is not.

[Supreme Reefs]

The stand pipe itself is silent, but the small overflow into the overflow box is not.

 

How high did you set the standpipe? So i guess theres some splashing noise?

[L8 2 RISE]

I set it as high as possible without being able to see it over the top of the overflow. That means the water drops about 3-4 inches and there is some splashing. Something I'm considering doing to change it is that since I have such a large overflow, I'll bring a pipe up as high as possible, then attach a T with two pipes coming out. I'll then cap the ends and slit the pipes down the middle at the top, water can then overflow down them but has next to no overflow into the overflow box.