540 Gallon Tank Beginning

[lmeyer]

I just picked up my new tank on Thursday. I'll post pictures of the tank and the move when I get around to re-sizing them to an appropriate size. In the meantime, I could use some help with designing the flow. I've never built a closed loop before and am having trouble. I've talked with the guys at WetWebMedia, but I'm still lost.

 

Tank: 540 gallons, 8'x3'x3'

Drilled Bulkheads: Two 2" bulkheads 2" from top (in the corners), four 1" bulkheads between them. The 1" bulkheads along the top are currently teed together in two sets of two. Five 1" bulkheads evenly spaced around 6" from the bottom.

Planned Coral Inhabitants: Mostly LPS, i.e. favia, euphyllia, trachyphyllia, etc.

Planned Flow Rate: ??? I was planning around 5400 GPH as I think LPS don't do well with the high levels of flow required for SPS. WetWebMedia is suggesting at least twice that much flow.

Current Equipment for Flow: I have two Tunze 6000 Streams and a 7095 controller, which will definitely go into the tank. I may supplement with additional Streams. I am using an Iwaki MD100 pump for my current sump return, but am considering using something different to get a more energy efficient system if possible. I have a spare MD100, so I could use two if necessary.

 

Am looking for suggestions for total flow, open loop design, and closed loop design.

[Connor]

Sweeeet Tank, make sure you put those pics up.

 

 

 

-Connor

[mogurnda]

Great to see this happening after all the waiting!

[MisterTang]

I disagree with WWM when it comes to LPS and flow. On one hand, they practically want you to have a whirlpool rate of flow, but then they caution you about having too much flow irritating the LPS'es. In fact, I actually asked a question a couple of weeks ago regarding this issue, and it came back clear as mud! I ended up just aiming for half of what they recommended, and decided I would add powerheads if I experienced issues. In my mind, it's easier to add an extra modded MaxiJet than it is to baffle excessive flow.

[ctenophore]

I disagree with everyone above, you should aim for even more flow, at least 30x. I have many LPS in my tank, which is 42" tall. I use 8x 6200s (actually only 6 are working right now) which gives me roughly 60x turnover. The LPS are fully expanded. The key is to direct the streams so they don't blow right on the corals, and if you use a closed loop, either use 2" openings to create gentle return jets or direct the 1" jets to spaces that create indirect flow around corals.

 

I think flow is the number one most important aspect of a reef tank, even above lighting. Aquascaping plays a very important role in getting flow correct- 60x in an open aquascape "looks" the same as 20x in a packed rock-wall style approach, but the effect on the long-term health of the tank can be profound. Take the time to fine tune it and get it right as it will determine whether your tank thrives or simply survives.

[NRehman]

More flow...however, as Justin has put in his response...avoid directed/laminar flows. In order to reduce directed/laminar flows, you can consider eductors. Search reef central on DIY eductors. One thread is based on heating and moulding PVC pipe for a fraction of the costs of purchasing with (what it seems) similar results.

[dbartco]

Been waiting for this for many months. I can't wait!

[jamesbuf]

Tagging along as well. I've seen this tank setup under a different owner, can't wait to see what you'll do with it.

[scott711]

Great Job Larry! We need some pics!

 

I agree with more flow. I have a large brain that loves flow over it and is fully expanded most of the day.

[lmeyer]

Okay, here are the pics of the move. Don't expect more in a hurry, we aren't living in the house right now and I expect this will take 3 to 4 months to set up.

 

Getting out of the old location

 

On the truck

 

Starting the rigging

 

In the air

 

Coming down

 

Almost on the ground again

 

In its final place

 

The finished crew

[Jager]

bet your glad its in and safe,

 

the black guy in the black shirt in the first photo was sporting some serious biceps bet they got a workout.

 

so moving company and friends? or who did you call/offer beers to to get that much help :P

[tbittner]

I read a ton of positive reviews about talking to OceanMotions and having them design what would give you the best flow. Give them a try, it won't cost anything to ask.

[lmeyer]

so moving company and friends?

 

I helped Tony move his 10 foot acrylic tank last year, only 2 guys showed up. I decided then and there to hire movers. It cost a fortune, but at least I wasn't standing around saying, "How in the heck am I going to do this?"

[scott711]

nice pics!

[jason the filter freak]

More flow...however, as Justin has put in his response...avoid directed/laminar flows. In order to reduce directed/laminar flows, you can consider eductors. Search reef central on DIY eductors. One thread is based on heating and moulding PVC pipe for a fraction of the costs of purchasing with (what it seems) similar results.

 

 

I've built a number of these eductors if you want info or tips on how to make them you can shoot me a PM. Good luck on your tank.

[lmeyer]

I've got two thought on this, looking for opinions:

 

1) Use each 2" bulkhead for overflow to sump. Use my existing Iwaki MD100 for return to the tank, with return through the four 1" bulkheads near the sump. Build two closed loops along the bottom, using Blue Line 40 HD-X pumps for each and capping the fifth 1" bulkhead. Use my existing pair of Tunze Streams 6000s and supplement with two new Tunze 6101s. Total flow will be about 11,500 GPH with energy consumption around 710 Watts

 

2) Use the four 1" bulkheads along the top for overflow to sump. Use a Blue Line 40 HD-X pump to return to the tank and run the returns over the top of the glass. Use the 2" bulkheads for a closed loop, using a ReeFlo Dart for the closed loop. Cap all five bulkheads along the bottom and reserve Again, use my existing Streams and add 2 more. Total flow will be about 12,000 GPH with energy consumption around 330 Watts.

 

Based on the numbers, I like option number 2 better, comparable flow for less than half the energy consumption. Plus, I can add more closed loops later if I'm so inclined. I'm not crazy about coming over the top for the return from the sump, but I can live with it. I think that four 1" bulkheads should work for feeding the sump. I assume that I can step up the 1 1/2" return from the Dart to a 2" bulkhead, is that a problem? It seems crazy to not use all of the bulkheads, but I'm trying to get max flow for minimum running costs.

[mogurnda]

I helped Tony move his 10 foot acrylic tank last year, only 2 guys showed up. I decided then and there to hire movers. It cost a fortune, but at least I wasn't standing around saying, "How in the heck am I going to do this?"

As one of the two guys, let me thank you right now for getting professionals.

 

On the other hand, I'll never forget Tony driving that truck on the slope behind his apt.

[lmeyer]

I'll never forget Tony driving that truck on the slope behind his apt.

 

I'm smiling just thinking about it. That was as funny as it gets.

[Ziggy953]

Were you a ball of nerves watching your tank hanging in the air...My stomach tightened up just looking at the pic.

[jason the filter freak]

2" is way to big for the out put of a closed loop off a dart probably a 1" would be it. I think you should look into eductors.

[lmeyer]

I went into Scales last week and spoke with Andrew. He worked through a design that I think will work.

 

Use the 2" bulkheads to feed the sump. Use two of the 1" bulkheads on the top as returns from the sump. I will either use my Iwaki MD100 to power the return, or replace it with two BlueLine HD40X pumps. Use a 2" pvc cross to join together feeds from the remaining two 1" bulkheads along the top and one of the 1" bulkheads on the bottom and feed the closed loop (using bushings to increase from 1" to 2" on entry to the cross). Use a Sequence 4800 to power the closed loop, fed through an Oceans Motions 4 way for the return to the remaining four 1" bulkheads. Will need to step down from 1 1/2" pvc to 1" after the Oceans Motions.

 

Having just put it all down, I think that I will send that message to OM to get their thoughts.

[lmeyer]

I decided that I don't have the knowledge, time, or skills to design and build this tank by myself and get the end result that I am looking for. Rather then make a hash of it, I chose to work with Scales to get the project done right. I can already tell that this is the smartest decision I've made in a long time. Andrew has a clearer idea of how to do this and practical knowledge that I just can't touch.

 

Andrew and I decided to remove all of the old plumbing and start over, getting exactly what we want and need and having total confidence in all of the equipment. I've cleaned the tank and removed the old plumbing. Andrew designed the flow with me and has built and installed the internal plumbing.

 

We're using the 2" bulkheads for the sump and the 1" bulkheads immediately next to them as returns from the sump. The 1" bulkheads between the returns from the sump will feed the closed loop (they are teed and at different depths in the tank to draw water from all over). Along the bottom row of bulkheads, we have a feed to the closed loop in the center and 4 teed returns from the closed loop. Four of the returns remain on the back wall, and four have been brought forward to the middle of the tank. We will be using a Baracuda and an Oceans Motions four way to run the closed loop.

 

Since the photo was taken, I've added eductors to all of the feeds from the closed loop and added the remainder of my sand to the tank. I was amazed, I used 720 pounds of Southdown and it probably averages out to only a 3" sandbed. The sand comes up to the bottom line of blue tape along the front!

 

Next step is to plumb the closed loop.

 

[davelin315]

I'll give you some feedback on your plumbing, which you may not really want to hear but I also might be seeing it wrong... It looks like you've got a feed for a closed loop located at the bottom center of your tank, only a few inches above the sand bed. This is a huge mistake (I speak from experience). You will draw in sand from the bed and clog your pumps, cloud your water, and jam your OM. My feeds were located about 1/2 up the tank and I still had to raise them up to avoid drawing in any sand. You are using Southdown (where did you find it?) which is the equivalent of what I used, Caribsea oolitic, and it blew all over the tank. Take a look at my build thread and you can see the mistakes I made and how I corrected them. You are using a similar set up to what I am using as far as equipment, holes, etc. Honestly, any return that is not at least 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the tank is not positioned properly. I understand the desire to draw water from the bottom, but with the sand bed you have and the flow in the tank, it's a mistake, trust me.

[AndrewB]

All is not as it appears...

 

There are three intakes being used for the closed loop. One on the top third, one in the middle and one near the bottom. All three will be plumbed into the single CL pump. The intake drawing from the bottom will have a valve to control the amount of flow through it to manage exactly the situation Dave's describing. In the worst case scenario, Larry will be able to turn it off completely. The bottom intake will also be protected by a live rock feature which will be designed in such a way to encourage water to enter from the top rather than the bottom. Finally, his batch of Southdown is a little more coarse than I've seen the Sugar fine. It will hold together better, especially with rock in place. Larry's also not done adding sand... I think the next batch might be a little more coarse than the Southdown sand.

 

I'll give you some feedback on your plumbing, which you may not really want to hear but I also might be seeing it wrong... It looks like you've got a feed for a closed loop located at the bottom center of your tank, only a few inches above the sand bed. This is a huge mistake (I speak from experience). You will draw in sand from the bed and clog your pumps, cloud your water, and jam your OM. My feeds were located about 1/2 up the tank and I still had to raise them up to avoid drawing in any sand. You are using Southdown (where did you find it?) which is the equivalent of what I used, Caribsea oolitic, and it blew all over the tank. Take a look at my build thread and you can see the mistakes I made and how I corrected them. You are using a similar set up to what I am using as far as equipment, holes, etc. Honestly, any return that is not at least 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the tank is not positioned properly. I understand the desire to draw water from the bottom, but with the sand bed you have and the flow in the tank, it's a mistake, trust me.

[lmeyer]

Dave,

 

Thanks for posting this, I had been worried about the intake being so close to the sand and hadn't gotten around to discussing it with Andrew yet. We'll definitely look at this more.

 

As for the Southdown, I've been planning on doing this for a very long time, I've been acquiring bags of Southdown whenever I see them for at least 3 years.