MY water parameters...

[lanman]

The survey Highland Reefer posted sent me off to do a full set of tests - had only been watching ALK since I started up my CA reactor.

 

Day I started CA reactor:

4/12/08

Temp 80.0

Specific Gravity 1.025

pH 8.0 (probe has since been recalibrated)

Ammonia 0 (Salifert)

Nitrite Not tested

Nitrate 25 (Salifert)

Alk 2.5 Meq/L - 7 dkH (Aquarium Systems)

CA 300 (Salifert)

MG not Tested

 

Today:

5/05/08

Temp 79.8

Specific Gravity 1.025

pH 8.16

Ammonia 0 (Salifert)

Nitrite not tested

Nitrate 25 (Salifert)

Alk 4.11 meq/L - 11.5 dkH (Salifert) ... ... 3.0 meq/L - 8.4 dkH (Aquarium Systems)

CA 390 (Salifert)

MG 1140 (Salifert)

 

NOW the big question.

 

Could anything in those parameters be causing some 'changes' in my corals?? Or perhaps the rapid increase in Alk/CA? I'm sure most of the change occurred over the last several days. Over the last week I have noticed a color change in one of my favorite corals - a purple bonsai. It is getting 'brownish' in parts of the coral instead of the consistent purple it had a week ago:

 

And I am seeing damaged 'tips' on my green slimer:

 

Some of the tips even have a bit of cyano-looking stuff on them (which I blow off with the turkey baster).

 

Any ideas???

 

Thanks,

bob

[Almon]

Could it be too much light? I have the same issue with a purple bonsai frag where it has turned brownish green. I have moved it out of the light to see what happens.

 

I'd also like to know what others think.

[lanman]

Could it be too much light? I have the same issue with a purple bonsai frag where it has turned brownish green. I have moved it out of the light to see what happens.

 

I'd also like to know what others think.

 

That would be odd - because it was kind of brown from my frag tank when I put it in there (and it is pretty high in the tank) - but it colored up in that location to where a few weeks ago it was solid purple. Now the color is getting more like it was in the frag tank. But the tip is still quite purple.

 

bob

[Highland Reefer]

The recommended Magnesium levels are about 1250 - 1350. Your levels are low, at 1140. This may explain why you are having problems getting your calcium levels up. I don't know if that is causing your problem with the coral color, but magnesium is incorporated in the skeleton of the corals. It may be coincidental, but probably the mag. levels have been steadily decreasing since you started using the calcium reactor. Kalk does not add magnesium. You will have to supplement it. My two cents.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[lanman]

The recommended Magnesium levels are about 1250 - 1350. Your levels are low, at 1140. This may explain why you are having problems getting your calcium levels up. I don't know if that is causing your problem with the coral color, but magnesium is incorporated in the skeleton of the corals. It may be coincidental, but probably the mag. levels have been steadily decreasing since you started using the calcium reactor. Kalk does not add magnesium. You will have to supplement it. My two cents.

 

Recommended methods of supplementing MG?? I am scheduled for a water change tomorrow - but it seems that most reef salts don't have enough MG in them, either. I have some 'Magnesion'; but I've rarely used it. Sounds like maybe I'd better add a bit every day.

 

bob

[Highland Reefer]

This is Dr. Craig Bingman's Recipe:

 

 

A Homemade Magnesium Supplement

There are three main sources of magnesium that aquarists have used to supplement magnesium in reef aquaria: commercial supplements, magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate. There are a couple of commercial magnesium supplements marketed for aquarium use that claim to provide magnesium along with anions in proportions resembling the anionic composition of natural seawater. Many people, deterred by the price of these supplements, have endeavored to make their own magnesium supplements. Typically, they use either pure magnesium chloride or magnesium sulfate.

 

 

 

Magnesium chloride is available in several grades, with varying amounts of water of hydration. The most commonly encountered forms are magnesium chloride hexahydrate and anhydrous magnesium chloride. Most "snow melt" grades of magnesium chloride are probably nearly anhydrous. The physical and handling properties of dry magnesium chloride are superior to highly hydrated forms of this, to the joy of people putting it into spreading equipment. Anhydrous magnesium chloride is 25.53 percent magnesium by mass. The balance is made of chloride ions.

 

Magnesium chloride hexahydrate has so much water that the magnesium is very nearly in solution already. It is astonishingly soluble and rather a mess to handle. One of its more unpleasant tricks is to re-crystallize in the storage container, forming a solid mass. It often requires considerable persuasion, pounding, chipping and, finally, cursing to get it out. Magnesium chloride hexahydrate is only 11.995 percent magnesium by mass. The rest is chloride ions and water. Nevertheless, I suggest that people use food grade or higher magnesium chloride for their reef systems. Pure grades of anhydrous magnesium chloride tend to be more expensive per unit mass of magnesium than the hexahydrate and "snow melt" grades of magnesium chloride are not guaranteed to be of adequate purity for aquarium use.

 

Magnesium sulfate heptahydrate, commonly called Epsom salts, is readily available in most drug stores. The Epsom salts you find there will be United States Pharmacopoeia grade and pure enough for human use. The purity and ready availability of this compound has led some people to advocate its use as a magnesium supplement for aquaria.

 

Although it may be fine for a small one-time adjustment, use of pure Epsom salts as a magnesium supplement will lead to an increase in the sulfate concentration of the water in the aquarium. The percentage change in sulfate concentration can be substantial. For example, if one wanted to correct the water in an aquarium from half-normal to normal seawater concentration of magnesium by using Epsom salts, it would double the sulfate concentration of the water. Like magnesium chloride hexahydrate, Epsom salts contain rather less magnesium per unit weight than you might suspect

Edited May 6, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[Almon]

I don't normally check Mg so I did, and it is 1330. The discoloration of your purple bonsai may be different than mine. I randomly add a mix I made from Grav's diluted version of Randy's Part 3. I add a quart of it every few weeks or so....

[Highland Reefer]

Bob,

Not to seem nit picky, but to get the pristine water conditions needed to achieve the best coral growth, you will need to lower your nitrate levels down too. I am having problems with mine also, which are at about 10 ppm. Recommendations are at levels not detectable by most test kits. If you want to keep competitive with Rik, you'll have to work on that too.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[steveoutlaw]

Recommended methods of supplementing MG?? I am scheduled for a water change tomorrow - but it seems that most reef salts don't have enough MG in them, either. I have some 'Magnesion'; but I've rarely used it. Sounds like maybe I'd better add a bit every day.

 

bob

 

 

Actually, I believe that John at BRK has the Kalk that supplements magnesium.

[lanman]

Bob,

Not to seem nit picky, but to get the pristine water conditions needed to achieve the best coral growth, you will need to lower your nitrate levels down too. I am having problems with mine also, which are at about 10 ppm. Recommendations are at levels not detectable by most test kits. If you want to keep competitive with Rik, you'll have to work on that too.

Picky, picky... I turned my skimmer up very slightly yesterday, and put the fish and corals on a diet. I know I've been over-feeding; but with the yellow tang having the purple tang in a hole - I always try to make sure purple gets enough food. I've also been skimming very dry. Now I'll just have to empty the cup more often. It used to run a lot lower on nitrates - but then I had an ich attack, and the purple tang went in a hole, and I got a bunch of LPS (Acans, mostly)... and I just started over-feeding. And my sun corals really don't need to be fed quite as often as they are. I'll be good! I promise!

 

bob

 

Actually, I believe that John at BRK has the Kalk that supplements magnesium.

 

I just purchased some ESV Calcium Hydroxide from BRK, and it doesn't say anything about Magnesium on the label.

 

So - what are we looking at here - Mag flakes and epsom salts? I'll have to check out Randy's solution.

 

bob

[Gadgets]

Tested my water yesterday and this is what I got.

 

Ca- 460

Alk- 8.2

Mg- 1425

 

My advice would be to lower your nitrates, up your Mg and Ca, and lower your Alk. U should also try getting a better brand alk kit. I've heard the saliferts are not as accurate lately. I use them for everything except alk.

Edited May 6, 2008 by 143gadgets

[vaironman]

Chris' water parameter is just too good. No wonder all his corals seem to be happy everytime he takes pixes.

 

Bob: Kent's solution also has Mg. in bottle. I dose them weekly and test my water just before dosing and a day after.

[Gadgets]

Chris' water parameter is just too good. No wonder all his corals seem to be happy everytime he takes pixes.

 

Bob: Kent's solution also has Mg. in bottle. I dose them weekly and test my water just before dosing and a day after.

 

 

I also use the Kent tech-M for Mg sup. I dose it every three days.

[dschflier]

I am curious to see what others say about this as well but I would start by turning off your reactor until you see what is causing the issue.

 

Maybe you do need more magnesium, but your calcium level seems good enough and the only change you mentioned was turning on the reactor. It would seem to me that if you stopped using the reactor and things came back to normal then you would want to focus your attention on the addition of the reactor. What type of media are you using in the reactor?

 

I personally wouldn't even mess with the magnesium. From my experience people start making all kinds of changes to try and figure out a problem and just make it worse. I would think just taking a step back and reversing what you did(ie taking the CA reactor offline), could very well fix the problem.

Edited May 6, 2008 by dschflier

[lanman]

Chris' water parameter is just too good. No wonder all his corals seem to be happy everytime he takes pixes.

 

Bob: Kent's solution also has Mg. in bottle. I dose them weekly and test my water just before dosing and a day after.

 

Yes - I have some... but the cost to raise and maintain my MG using it would be prohibitive.

 

Tested my water yesterday and this is what I got.

 

Ca- 460

Alk- 8.2

Mg- 1425

 

My advice would be to lower your nitrates, up your Mg and Ca, and lower your Alk. U should also try getting a better brand alk kit. I've heard the saliferts are not as accurate lately. I use them for everything except alk.

 

My alk, according to the non-salifert kit is pretty much the same as yours (8.4). My target was 10 - but now I've run into the problem of which test kit to believe. According to Salifert - I've reached my target.

 

I wonder if that LaMotte kit has an alk test in it...

 

 

I am curious to see what others say about this as well but I would start by turning off your reactor until you see what is causing the issue.

 

Maybe you do need more magnesium, but your calcium level seems good enough and the only change you mentioned was turning on the reactor. It would seem to me that if you stopped using the reactor and things came back to normal then you would want to focus your attention on the addition of the reactor. What type of media are you using in the reactor?

 

I personally wouldn't even mess with the magnesium. From my experience people start making all kinds of changes to try and figure out a problem and just make it worse. I would think just taking a step back and reversing what you did(ie taking the CA reactor offline), could very well fix the problem.

 

I agree my CA is fine ... now... but it was only 300 before I turned on the CA reactor, and my ALK was falling below 7. And my corals were NOT growing. Healthy - but not growing. Since I've started it up, I am getting new growth tips on most of my corals again. i.e. - my blue-tip staghorn had no blue tips... now it does. The only ones that seem to be changing for the worse are the ones that are highest up in the tank. Adding alkalinity wouldn't make the water transmit more light, would it?

 

I'm not overly concerned about the MG - but would like to be able to get it up to 1200 at least.

 

bob

Edited May 6, 2008 by lanman

[Almon]

So - what are we looking at here - Mag flakes and epsom salts? I'll have to check out Randy's solution.

 

 

bob

 

Back to the original question:

 

I use the RHF 3 part. On the MG part I have diluted the solution so that I dose it at exactly 1/3rd rate of parts 1 and 2. This way I don't need to track each tank to know when I have added a full gallon of part one and 2.

 

Even got randy to bless my #s

 

6 cups epsom

10 cups Mag flake

4.2 gallons of water.

 

[steveoutlaw]

I just purchased some ESV Calcium Hydroxide from BRK, and it doesn't say anything about Magnesium on the label.

bob

 

Bob,

Next time you're out at BRK, look at the kalk he has in the black container (or just ask him).

[bprinehart]

Bob--

 

Just out of curiosity, do you check for phosphate levels? I know in the past, I would get browning of my sps when phosphate levels would creep up.

[Gadgets]

Yes - I have some... but the cost to raise and maintain my MG using it would be prohibitive.

My alk, according to the non-salifert kit is pretty much the same as yours (8.4). My target was 10 - but now I've run into the problem of which test kit to believe. According to Salifert - I've reached my target.

 

I wonder if that LaMotte kit has an alk test in it...

I agree my CA is fine ... now... but it was only 300 before I turned on the CA reactor, and my ALK was falling below 7. And my corals were NOT growing. Healthy - but not growing. Since I've started it up, I am getting new growth tips on most of my corals again. i.e. - my blue-tip staghorn had no blue tips... now it does. The only ones that seem to be changing for the worse are the ones that are highest up in the tank. Adding alkalinity wouldn't make the water transmit more light, would it?

 

I'm not overly concerned about the MG - but would like to be able to get it up to 1200 at least.

 

bob

 

Mg is more important than most think. I started dosing MG/Ca to bring my levels to where they are now and I have never seen my corals look so good.

 

BTW. i use the Lamotte Alk test kit. I got it from PA.

[Highland Reefer]

 

Mg is more important than most think. I started dosing MG/Ca to bring my levels to where they are now and I have never seen my corals look so good.

 

BTW. i use the Lamotte Alk test kit. I got it from PA.

 

I remember reading in some article about the test kits we use do not reflect the true magnesium levels and that whoever wrote the article was recommending higher levels at 1400 & above, instead of the normal range of 1250 - 1350. Chris, is this why you keep your mag. levels at 1425?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Bob, If you read Randy's article about magesium, it explains why keeping your mag. levels up are so important:

 

Magnesium

 

Magnesium's primary importance is its interaction with the calcium and alkalinity balance in reef aquaria. Seawater and reef aquarium water are always supersaturated with calcium carbonate. That is, the solution's calcium and carbonate levels exceed the amount that the water can hold at equilibrium. How can that be? Magnesium is a big part of the answer. Whenever calcium carbonate begins to precipitate, magnesium binds to the growing surface of the calcium carbonate crystals. The magnesium effectively clogs the crystals' surface so that they no longer look like calcium carbonate, making them unable to attract more calcium and carbonate, so the precipitation stops. Without the magnesium, the abiotic (nonbiological) precipitation of calcium carbonate would likely increase enough to prohibit the maintenance of calcium and alkalinity at natural levels.

 

For this reason, I suggest targeting the natural seawater concentration of magnesium: ~1285 ppm. For practical purposes, 1250-1350 ppm is fine, and levels slightly outside that range (1200-1400 ppm) are also likely acceptable. I would not suggest raising magnesium by more than 100 ppm per day, in case the magnesium supplement contains impurities. If you need to raise it by several hundred ppm, spreading the addition over several days will allow you to more accurately reach the target concentration, and might possibly allow the aquarium to handle any impurities that the supplement contains.

 

An aquarium's corals and coralline algae can deplete magnesium by incorporating it into their growing calcium carbonate skeletons. Many methods of supplementing calcium and alkalinity may not deliver enough magnesium to maintain it at a normal level. Settled limewater (kalkwasser), in particular, is quite deficient in magnesium. Consequently, magnesium should be measured occasionally, particularly if the aquarium's calcium and alkalinity levels seem difficult to maintain. Aquaria with excessive abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate on objects such as heaters and pumps might suffer from low magnesium levels (along with high pH, calcium, and alkalinity).

[lanman]

Mg is more important than most think. I started dosing MG/Ca to bring my levels to where they are now and I have never seen my corals look so good.

 

BTW. i use the Lamotte Alk test kit. I got it from PA.

 

Unfortunately the LaMotte kit that I got (when I purchased a bunch of stuff from someone going out of the hobby) is for 'Calcium Hardness'.

 

I'll have to find a third ALK test somewhere to get more accuracy.

bob

[Gadgets]

I'm happy with the lamotte test kit. Very accurate imo.

 

I never read that study on Mg, but once I got it this high i saw a dramatic improvement in the coloration of the corals so i made sure to keep it this high.

[Gadgets]

I'm happy with the lamotte test kit. Very accurate imo.

 

I never read that study on Mg, but once I got it this high i saw a dramatic improvement in the coloration of the corals so i made sure to keep it this high.

[magnetic1]

What MG test kits do you guys use? Im curious and wanna test mine.

[Gadgets]

Salifert for everything except Alk.