lancer99 March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 On 2/08, I bought two black misbar false percs from BRK. The smaller one ever only ate two mysis shrimp, and two weeks later, he died. I was, as you probably understand, a little upset. And not to sound mercenary, but more upset when I wasn't even offered a refund from BRK. Keep your fingers crossed that my new clown does better. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 <Moved to Vendor Experience> I understand your frustration but please note that BRK does have signs prominently displayed in the store stating that they do not guarantee saltwater fish once they have left the store. Some stores in the area do offer a limited guarantee on SW livestock but this is not common and the guarantee is usually no more than 3 to 7 days. I'm not aware of any vendor that offers a guarantee of more than 14 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer99 March 1, 2008 Author Share March 1, 2008 Bob, Understood. But I don't think I did anything wrong.....I acclimated both clowns carefully, and I think the proof is that one has been a pig from the start. The other one just didn't eat, except for two mysis in two weeks. Since they were both acclimated and fed in the same way, in the same tank, I don't see how that could be my fault. As far as a three to seven day guarantee goes, that just encourages ppl to kill fish faster Please note that I hold no grudges, was just at BRK this p.m. and got away with a spend of $130...small change! -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rioreef March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 What was their eating habits in the store? When buying a fish it is not unreasonable to ask the store, while you are there, to feed them and observe how well they are doing. Even put a deposit down to hold the fish, come back in a few days and observe again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wreck March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 Buying wild caught saltwater can be a crap shoot from wherever you buy them, it's very stressful to fish to be caught and shipped. I bought 3 Bangaii Cardinal fish from Aquarium One and within two days two had died. I hope to be able to breed these Bangaii some day and help to alleviate some of impact on wild populations. They have a 2 day guarantee at Aquarium One and they gladly replaced the fish with bigger fish than the originals. I usually don't buy fish from the LFS and try to get them from people getting rid of fish during tank breakdowns or other reasons. Wreck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 But I don't think I did anything wrong How do you know? Not trying to blame you, but we really can't know what the cause is. I've bought fish that were healthy looking and eating in the fish store, did everything I was supposed to to acclimate them, and they died within a week. Did I do anything wrong? I don't know. The ride home could have stressed them out; another fish in the tank could have been picking on them. Simply put, these are delicate animals and sometimes they just die. It stings a little more when it's a $100 fish then it does when it's a $15 fish, but sucks none the less. Sorry for your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtC March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 It sounds a bit like we're ganging up on you, but it's just the reality of the hobby that things die. And vendors who don't break even also die How do you know BRK did anything wrong? There are risks all along the supply chain, and the LFS can't assume all of them without raising the prices on everything. Or the fish could have had bad genes that made it less adaptable to new environments... The longer between when the fish is sold and when it dies, the less likely that the death was the fault of the supply chain. Not to say it wasn't, but there's no way to prove the cause so vendors need to have some rule to deal with the situation in the absence of knowledge. Another thing you can do is ask the LFS to hold the fish for you for a while to see how it does. I don't know what BRKs policy is on this. Because that's also a cost - tanks full of fish being held are not available for new stock, and sales go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leishman March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 I wish all LFSs could be as comited the hobiest as BRK. Most LFS want to flip stock asap and don't even know what they are selling. Johnny took his time building out BRM (marine not koi) and we the buyer are getting the benefit of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottloverr March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 Totally agree with Leishman. I'm actually heading to BRK today to pick up some light bulbs. I'll probably drive by 3 LFS (not that they are bad or anything) on the way there. I've got no clue what brand I should get but I'm confident John will steer me in the right direction. His personal service and freely given advice are top notch. I'm sorry for your loss. I'm also glad to see that you will continue to shop at BRK. Cheers, Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 OK, lets see where to start my defense..... Those are ORA tank bred and raised clown fish, very hearty and healthy fish. I have still have a tankful of them from 2-3 weeks ago, all eating and all doing well. As a general rule we can not guarantee fish once they leave our store due to our lack of control of their environment, but on several occasions I have replaced livestock for customers that have lost fish within a day or so, just a judgment call on my part. Any of you who I have done that for please chime in. I believe in running a VERY fair business, I keep my prices as low as I can, and are passionate about the health of all of our livestock. We do quarantine our fish, although many question our process but I am sure it is more thorough than any other LFS. The bottom line is I can not afford to keep my prices low and have customers expect me to replace fish when they die, I could do what some of the other lfs do and charge $119 for a powder blue tang and offer a guarantee, but instead I charge $59 and offer a healthy, quarantined specimen. I hope this clears my beliefs, procedures and policies up. I want to continue to be the LFS of choice for the club, and take great pride in that claim. Lance, glad to see there really isnt too much of a grudge considering you were back for more..... thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leishman March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 See you in an hour or so Johnny...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 (edited) I find that a lot of people in this hobby are always looking for something free or very cheap. That goes against the grain of pragmatic business models that are required for a business to survive and profit. Whenever a customer thinks he should get his money back when something goes wrong, he should quickly answer the question: "How much am I willing to pay so I should expect a refund when something goes wrong?" then answer "How much should a store have to charge to make it to allow a generous refund policy?" I'll bet you can't come up with compatible numbers for the LFS business that is selling to aquarium hobbyists. Everyone wants a great LFS nearby. When an LFS can't make reasonable profits, it can't survive and we lose it. Therein is the basis for the conflict of desires in this situation. As customers we need to regard the value to us of having a viable a LFS business to work with and we need to understand we customers are very much a part of that business' ability to operate to standards we demand. Now why is it that BRK should refund money for a fish that died in your care? How much would you have been willing to pay so that BRK should refund your money? How much do you think BRK would have to charge you for the fish in the first place to cover the likelihood of having to refund yhour purchase in the event it dies? Which of these two numbers is larger? BTW, if you don't know the answer to the second question, then ask BRK. We all need to be realistic about LFS businesses and what it takes for them to provide us [/i] goods and services at prices we can afford an at which they can be viable businesses. Please recognize that the operative word in that last sentence here is QUALITY. fab Edited March 1, 2008 by fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer99 March 1, 2008 Author Share March 1, 2008 I should not have posted in the first place. I was upset about the death of a fish that I cared about a lot. This is the first fish I have bought since getting back in the hobby, and I honestly was unaware of BRK's refund policy. I guess there are signs, but I have never looked at them....there are too many pretty things that distract me I find that a lot of people in this hobby are always looking for something free or very cheap. Not me...I am keeping track of my hobby-related expenses this time around, and it's pretty shocking. Now why is it that BRK should refund money for a fish that died in your care? I did not ask for a refund, other than indirectly above. As I said above, both clowns were acclimated carefully, and were given good care. One ate from day one, the other didn't. It's as simple as that. Since these were TR, quarantined fish, I resent the implication that I am responsible for its death. Other than that, I appreciate everyone's comments. BRK is my favorite LFS. I have said many good things about them in the past, and I'm sure I will do so in the future. So let's put this thing to bed.... Thx, -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grav March 1, 2008 Share March 1, 2008 I must jump in and say a word about BRK as someone that has had an inside view of several LFSs. BRK is an organization that goes above and beyond in both customer service and fish health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer99 March 2, 2008 Author Share March 2, 2008 So let's put this thing to bed.... Proving myself wrong again John has pointed out that the message thread title is misleading. I wasn't so much disappointed by BRK as upset by the death of my fish. So for the thread title, I apologize. Looking back, on one occasion the more dominant clown literally pushed the other one away when I put food in the tank. Maybe part of the reason he wouldn't eat, is that he was just too cowed/frightened. And I'm happy to say that the new clown from BRK is doing great & eating well. He's in the same tank as the other one, but they are separated by a tank divider, so he can adjust before they get to say their hellos. I think I've been to just about every LFS in the metro area, as well as many in other cities (Mpls, London, etc.), and BRK is definitely the best. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA March 2, 2008 Share March 2, 2008 Gang, There is a lesson learned relating to our hobby here for livestock! (FWIW, if this wasn't on top of "View New Post", would have let it bury it self!) BUT, When your dealing with livestock, you have various levels of dealers/vendors that can help bring livestock 1000's of miles in a short time to allow us to populate our tanks with hopefully healthy livestock! The level of service that the owners of these establishments choose/gamble on is what will keep them in the business for more than a short time and frankly, pay the bills to keep the doors open! Internet vendors usually are buying right when they basically come off the boats and offer discounted prices and usually a refund to get you to place an order, BUT you NEVER know for sure what your getting until it shows up! Chain Stores (Petco, etc), are probably the next step up but YOU KNOW what you dealing with and though we all like the Mall Scenarios, a huge risk as well! WARRANTY ZERO! LFS aka, the mom and pop's are the backbone of the industry providing HANDS ON service and livestock that you can actually see what your getting! Though I've never seen one that offers a refund, at least most take the time to acclimate and treat and prep their wares before we the customers can come in and do SMART SHOPPING by watching the fish for while, see if its eating before we you take it with us and then DOING our best to acclimating them into our tanks! Lance, sorry you had a loss, I know your frustration, I've personally have lost propably over a $1000.00+++ worth of livestock with nothing but empty feelings and pocket book to show for it! IMO, BRK and his staff run an A++++ operation! One of the best in the area, let alone the country! Give them another chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnguyen4007 March 2, 2008 Share March 2, 2008 OK, lets see where to start my defense..... As a general rule we can not guarantee fish once they leave our store due to our lack of control of their environment, but on several occasions I have replaced livestock for customers that have lost fish within a day or so, just a judgment call on my part. Any of you who I have done that for please chime in. Lance, I just want to say that I know how you feel when a fish that you buy died and not know why. Like a lot of ppl been saying, it's one of those things where it could be any number of things. I just want to share my experience with Johnny, and I can honestly say that Johnny helped me greatly. Ever since my wife first saw the black/white ORA false percs at BRK, she fell in love with them. So when BRK finally had in stock, I bought a pair. A few days later, I found one wedged between the snail guard of the overflow box. Unable to swim, it died. I went back to BRK and told Johnny of what happened. To my surprise, Johnny offered me a nice discount on a replacement black/white. I was extremely grateful. Took it home, a few days, the same thing happened to that replacement fish. Again, Johnny gave me a discount on the replacement. This time, I made sure I picked a black/white that was a bit larger and removed the snail guards. Since then, the pair of black/white false perc have been thriving in my tank and are growing beautifully. Johnny definitely did not have to offer me a discount because the death of my fish was clearly had nothing to do with BRK's stock, but he did anyway. For that, I was and truly is grateful. That story is just one of many number of times Johnny helped me ever since I first got into this hobby and I can tell you many more, but I won't. I'm sure my story is nothing new for anyone who knows Johnny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv March 2, 2008 Share March 2, 2008 I think we can put this one to bed now. Lance is up and running agian, and despite the title of this thread he was just flat out upset he lost a fish that he really liked. Just like the rest of us he wanted to vent a little, sounds like he is protecting his new investment. Thanks for the kind words from everyone, it looks like EVERYONE understands how hard we work to do what we do. We will keep it up, providing quality livestock at reasonable prices! Check out this weeks stocklist, it is insane.... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsaavedra March 2, 2008 Share March 2, 2008 Well you know me... I have to say something. One question only: 1. When you went to BRK did you pick and watched your 2 clowns before bagging them? I LOVE BRK and the staff. I don't make it there as much as I would like (good in a way or I would be broke) but when I make it I spend about 2 hours talking to John, Byron and the rest of the gang on getting advice which I very much respect. Ask John or Byron last time I was there I studied my 2 fishes like a hawk for 30 minutes or so, ask them to let me see them eat, ask what they were being fed and how often, asked them how long they were in the store, asked them if they were bullied by other fishes in their tanks and lot more questions, in the end I got my 2 fishes because I was happy with every answer I got. BRK is one of the best LFS in the area. John can tell you that I praise him on the great work they do almost everytime I see them or call them. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer99 March 2, 2008 Author Share March 2, 2008 Well you know me... I have to say something. One question only: 1. When you went to BRK did you pick and watched your 2 clowns before bagging them? Yep, I did. I wanted to get a pair of 'interesting' clowns for my LTA, and was totally sold on Naked False Percs, but then fell in love with the black misbars....spent waaaay to much time staring at them, and had to go outside for a cigarette break before I committed. I have never been much of a "fish" guy, and since 1989, have only ever lost two fish...one, a purple firefish who jumped, and a beautiful yellow puffer who got ich, and because of my ignorance at the time, didn't know that they don't tolerate copper. I hope that explains why I was upset, and John is right, I just felt the need to vent a little. Thx guys.... -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr March 2, 2008 Share March 2, 2008 John runs a tight ship. I had a guy come into my store trying to bash you guys over a dead firefish... turns out acclimation to him meant slowly letting the fish out of the bag!!! John you run an honest shop....i wanna be like you when I grow up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab March 2, 2008 Share March 2, 2008 I resent the implication that I am responsible for its death. No such implication was made or intended by what I wrote which is "why is it that BRK should refund money for a fish that died in your care?" It is a simple statement of fact, not laced with any hidden meanings. I'm sorry that you lost a fish. It is always sad and it is not without cost to us. The questions I posed in my post are serious questions that I believe all of us hobbyists need to bear in mind. fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf March 2, 2008 Share March 2, 2008 Ok guys, Rob was obviously ticked when his fish died and posted this thread early on when his disappointments were still really high. I'm sure we've all posted something like this in the heat of the moment and wished we had never posted it in the first place. I had an incident like this with another great LFS and regretted posting that thread as well. We all know BRK is a great LFS, so lets just please let this thread die. I'm tired of seeing it at the top of the list when I click "view new posts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrubberbandman March 3, 2008 Share March 3, 2008 John runs a tight ship. I had a guy come into my store trying to bash you guys over a dead firefish... turns out acclimation to him meant slowly letting the fish out of the bag!!! John you run an honest shop....i wanna be like you when I grow up Too funny!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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