madmax7774 December 13, 2006 December 13, 2006 So I have an abundance of one type of coral in my system. I happened to be in a LFS that shall remain nameless, and I mentioned it to them and they said "Gee, why don't you bring some of it in, we'll buy it off you, and give you store credit toward some other corals..." So I thought about it, and I figured why not, it sounds like s good deal. So a few weeks later i stop in on a saturday afternoon, with my loot, and I show it to them, and they said "umm, we only take frags in on Tuesday's...", OK, well I wish you would have mentioned that when you offered to take my frags in the first place! But the Clerk at the store sorta felt sorry for me, and said hey, we'll take em anyway. Having never done this before, I hung around to see what they would do with the coral. They placed it in a quarantine system pretty much right away, and I thought well that should be good to go. Then they said, we can't give you any credit till Tuesday when the manager is in to review your frags. OK I thought, that's no big deal, I'm patient. So I stop back by teusday, and guess what?? they have pretty much managed to kill all the coral I brought in. What?!?!? They immediately started blaming it on me saying that it was my fault, that the water I brought the frags in with was too hot, and that's what caused the problem. Well I know that's not true, because I mixed brand new RO/DI water in a rubbermade tote, and dropped a heater in it on 78'F and left it like that for several hours before I put any frags in it. It was a 20 minute drive to the LFS, so if anything, it was slightly cold, not hot. So then I stuck my finger in the tank that they had the frags in, and It was shockingly cold. I asked, what are you guys usually running your water temp at? He replied 74'F Wowzer, that's pretty low compared to my tank which is always at 80'F. In any event, they are not going to give me credit unless the frags survive (I seriously doubt they will) I have lost probably $50 in credits and am pissed off at the store for their crappy treament. In my opinion, if the stuff I bring in is healthy, I should be credited/paid for what I brought. If the store then kills it, then that's their problem, not mine. I feel like I have been taken advantage off, and I will definately NOT be going to back to that store. In any event, I now need to find a new store to bring my frags to. I wonder if BRK will take in frags??? Oh yeah, their freaking prices are rediculous too. I wanted a red seas wavemaster, and they want $199 for something that is $109 everywhere else. a Maxijet1200 powerhead is freakin $42 at this LFS, and they sell for $20~$22 everywhere else. You know I can understand when a local store has to mark up a small amount to stay in business, but they are just getting greedy.
ReeferMan December 13, 2006 December 13, 2006 hmmmmm sounds like Marine Scene! I have no prob calling them out.
Charlie97L December 13, 2006 December 13, 2006 (edited) phisigs... that's conjecture, and you shouldn't assume that he is talking about that store. plenty of people have had great experiences at marine scene, and there's no call to arbitrarily blame them for what could have happened anywhere. just my opinion. we as a club thrive on our LFS support, and dissing one of them without cause doesn't reflect positively on us as a club to ALL of the LFS's. Edited December 13, 2006 by Charlie97L
BeltwayBandit December 13, 2006 December 13, 2006 Regardless of the store.. this story illustrates why, when you find a good one, you should shop there. Vote with your dollars and don't support a store that you don't like.
ReeferMan December 13, 2006 December 13, 2006 We as a club are to support our LFS but thats only if they do whats right. I don't have to go on and tell people about Marine Scene as they know for themselves. And taking trades on Tuesday, 20min from centreville and the stunt they pulled equals the one and only Marine Scene. I dont see a problem calling it how it is.
rrubberbandman December 13, 2006 December 13, 2006 We as a club are to support our LFS but thats only if they do whats right. I don't have to go on and tell people about Marine Scene as they know for themselves. And taking trades on Tuesday, 20min from centreville and the stunt they pulled equals the one and only Marine Scene. I dont see a problem calling it how it is. OUCH!
Charlie97L December 13, 2006 December 13, 2006 (edited) We as a club are to support our LFS but thats only if they do whats right. I don't have to go on and tell people about Marine Scene as they know for themselves. And taking trades on Tuesday, 20min from centreville and the stunt they pulled equals the one and only Marine Scene. I dont see a problem calling it how it is. that's cool man... we can agree to disagree the one time i went there i liked it, but i haven't shopped there enough to make an accurate appraisal. Edited December 13, 2006 by Charlie97L
Gatortailale December 13, 2006 December 13, 2006 Well I know that's not true, because I mixed brand new RO/DI water in a rubbermade tote, and dropped a heater in it on 78'F and left it like that for several hours before I put any frags in it. Everyone entitled to their view. I only point this out as something that seemed like possible start to problem for the frags. Next time, use some seasoned tank water, not fresh made. Right off the bat you stressed the corals by putting them as you wrote it, un-acclimated to the fresh made water. No comment on whether salinity was same as tank water. Also have concerns as to which QT system it went in and if hit with copper or other treatments meds. Again, not defending what happened by LFS - just trying to look at possible reasons why the frags are dying.
madmax7774 December 13, 2006 Author December 13, 2006 I understand why folks might think it's a valid point about mixing up water, but I used the same water from my RO/DI, and the same reef crystals, and I always measure very carefully with a measuring cup whether it for extra stuff like this trip, or if it's for the main tank. I have to say though that I would think that mixing up a fresh batch of water and getting it to the proper temp, and letting it circulate for 4 hours before dropping the coral in should have the same effect as a water change, which I thought most folks considered highly beneficial. Do you really think that the fresh water batch could have bee the source of all these problems? I really thought it was the drastic temperature difference. In any event, I am going to vote with my dollars, and I am NOT, NOT, NOT ever going back there unless I am having some sort of emergency. It is rather humurous though, that even though I never specifically mention the store by name, almost everyone knew exactly which store it was just based on a few scant facts. That doesn't say much for the store.
rsaavedra December 13, 2006 December 13, 2006 phisigs... that's conjecture, and you shouldn't assume that he is talking about that store. plenty of people have had great experiences at marine scene, and there's no call to arbitrarily blame them for what could have happened anywhere. just my opinion. we as a club thrive on our LFS support, and dissing one of them without cause doesn't reflect positively on us as a club to ALL of the LFS's. Another reason WHY I DON'T SHOP AT MARINE SCENE!!!
jamesbuf December 14, 2006 December 14, 2006 On a side note, I usually let my freshly mixed saltwater circulate for as least a day before I add it to my system. Having only let it mix up for 4 hours, you might have harmed the corals with that method. I'm sure alot of others on here will tell you the same. And I am in now way defending the store in question. I've never actually gone there myself because of all the negative publicity they have gotten on these boards......that and if I'm gonna travel all the way into VA I might as well go to BRK or F&F. I understand why folks might think it's a valid point about mixing up water, but I used the same water from my RO/DI, and the same reef crystals, and I always measure very carefully with a measuring cup whether it for extra stuff like this trip, or if it's for the main tank. I have to say though that I would think that mixing up a fresh batch of water and getting it to the proper temp, and letting it circulate for 4 hours before dropping the coral in should have the same effect as a water change, which I thought most folks considered highly beneficial. Do you really think that the fresh water batch could have bee the source of all these problems? I really thought it was the drastic temperature difference. In any event, I am going to vote with my dollars, and I am NOT, NOT, NOT ever going back there unless I am having some sort of emergency. It is rather humurous though, that even though I never specifically mention the store by name, almost everyone knew exactly which store it was just based on a few scant facts. That doesn't say much for the store.
flowerseller December 14, 2006 December 14, 2006 I understand why folks might think it's a valid point about mixing up water, but I used the same water from my RO/DI, and the same reef crystals, and I always measure very carefully with a measuring cup whether it for extra stuff like this trip, or if it's for the main tank. I have to say though that I would think that mixing up a fresh batch of water and getting it to the proper temp, and letting it circulate for 4 hours before dropping the coral in should have the same effect as a water change, which I thought most folks considered highly beneficial. Do you really think that the fresh water batch could have bee the source of all these problems? What I understand was done here is different than a typical water exchange. Most of us do a water exchange and replace only a portion, usually less the 25%, and that gets mixed into a tank which is actually diluting aged water already there. This is the best senerio and would have been a better choice for transporting to the LFS. New mixed water 4 hrs old or 24 hrs old would not be the best choice. I really thought it was the drastic temperature difference. With xenia and almost all other corals, a drastic temperature difference, unless it's a significantly higher one or a really sudden lower one, will not play as much of a negative role as a sudden change in water quality. Even if you believe the water change is for the better. Xenia is a strange animal, thriving in many tanks and unadaptable in others. Years ago, I had great patches of it and it was gone the next day with no changes to the tank what so ever. About the corals that were then put into the QT system at the LFS. Gatortailales post above is right inline with my thinking as well.
emissary December 14, 2006 December 14, 2006 I'm sorry to read this. I've had some very successful exchanges with Xenia frags with what sounds like this exact establishment. I just stopped by there today and picked up 4 packages of frozen food (buy 3 get one for $.01) with some of my credit. I understand why folks might think it's a valid point about mixing up water, but I used the same water from my RO/DI, and the same reef crystals, and I always measure very carefully with a measuring cup whether it for extra stuff like this trip, or if it's for the main tank. I suggest a refractometer. You can get 'em for as low as $50 I think these days and they're GREAT for ensuring salinity. You can even use a swing-arm if you can find one that's relatively consistent and can convert from whatever the swingarm reads to actual salinity as measured by the refractometer. My swingarm you have to add .002 to get the actual salinity. I have to say though that I would think that mixing up a fresh batch of water and getting it to the proper temp, and letting it circulate for 4 hours before dropping the coral in should have the same effect as a water change, which I thought most folks considered highly beneficial. Nope, the phrase is "frequent partial water changes." Moving from established balanced tank water to a "fresh" batch of saltwater < 24 hours old is ... playing with fire: you could get away unscathed... *shrug* Do you really think that the fresh water batch could have bee the source of all these problems? Wholeheartedly. I really thought it was the drastic temperature difference. In any event, I am going to vote with my dollars, and I am NOT, NOT, NOT ever going back there unless I am having some sort of emergency. It is rather humurous though, that even though I never specifically mention the store by name, almost everyone knew exactly which store it was just based on a few scant facts. That doesn't say much for the store. Actually the fact that they OFFER a credit tipped me off. and the Tuesday thing. And the $42 maxijet :wink:
HowardofNOVA December 14, 2006 December 14, 2006 I understand why folks might think it's a valid point about mixing up water, but I used the same water from my RO/DI, and the same reef crystals, and I always measure very carefully with a measuring cup whether it for extra stuff like this trip, or if it's for the main tank. I have to say though that I would think that mixing up a fresh batch of water and getting it to the proper temp, and letting it circulate for 4 hours before dropping the coral in should have the same effect as a water change, which I thought most folks considered highly beneficial. Do you really think that the fresh water batch could have bee the source of all these problems? Concur! 24hrs is highly recommend time to allow the solids to disolve enough in your mixing tank before you do a 10-20% water change, NOT into a container full of corals...a recipe for disaster! ..sorry you found out the hard way! MS has always had a reputation as a nice store with great quarantined stock at a PREMIUM (HIGHER than Average) Price! As with most LFS, your paying to keep them in business, but as several in the area do, sometimes alot more than Internet Pricing!
dbartco December 14, 2006 December 14, 2006 Was it xenia? That stuff is so tank dependant that it could very well just be a tank change that kills it. Every time someone gives me some, I kill it within a week. Fickle...
rioreef December 14, 2006 December 14, 2006 ...I should be credited/paid for what I brought. If the store then kills it, then that's their problem, not mine...In any event, I now need to find a new store to bring my frags to. I wonder if BRK will take in frags??? Shopping for a new store to deal your frags to and with comments like this may not get you much business. Seems kind of demanding. After all, you were wanting "money" from them, you were not giving them money. Also, if you have more frags, take them on a Tuesday, make a deal and see what happens, if they survive, great and you have your credit and you can get something. Or don't take them, leave them in your tank and you have frags in your tank. If the store has a policy, so be it, all businesses do and if that policy gets in the way of your satisfaction does not mean that store is "bad" for all. This was your experience and opinion, as this is mine.
guppychao December 14, 2006 December 14, 2006 Wondering what is the store policy if you bought a piece of coral and it died do you get your money back? I would state to the owner that when you brought it in that they were healthy, just like when you purchase from them and bring it home if it dies do you get credit back? good luck Shopping for a new store to deal your frags to and with comments like this may not get you much business. Seems kind of demanding. After all, you were wanting "money" from them, you were not giving them money. Also, if you have more frags, take them on a Tuesday, make a deal and see what happens, if they survive, great and you have your credit and you can get something. Or don't take them, leave them in your tank and you have frags in your tank. If the store has a policy, so be it, all businesses do and if that policy gets in the way of your satisfaction does not mean that store is "bad" for all. This was your experience and opinion, as this is mine.
madmax7774 December 14, 2006 Author December 14, 2006 As much as I hate to admit it, Everyone has very valid points. I guess I was just disheartened by the whole experience, and needed to Vent. At least it's not a total loss, I did learn a few very important lessons along the way. In any event, I am over it now and moving on new corals... oh yeah, I still have a lot of anthelia left in my tank if anyone wants a frag or two....
GaryL December 14, 2006 December 14, 2006 Was it xenia? That stuff is so tank dependant that it could very well just be a tank change that kills it. Every time someone gives me some, I kill it within a week. Fickle... you and me both.
emissary December 15, 2006 December 15, 2006 As much as I hate to admit it, Everyone has very valid points. I guess I was just disheartened by the whole experience, and needed to Vent. At least it's not a total loss, I did learn a few very important lessons along the way. In any event, I am over it now and moving on new corals... oh yeah, I still have a lot of anthelia left in my tank if anyone wants a frag or two.... This is amazingly amazingly huge of you. It takes a phenomenal strength of character and self confidence to take such strong (but hopefully not mean) criticism and look at it square in the face and take an honest look again. Did they kill it? Did you set it on it's path to death? Nobody will ever really know, but to take a step back like this and give the benefit of the doubt is, in my mind and experience, not often done. Very cool.
rrubberbandman December 16, 2006 December 16, 2006 This is amazingly amazingly huge of you. It takes a phenomenal strength of character and self confidence to take such strong (but hopefully not mean) criticism and look at it square in the face and take an honest look again. Did they kill it? Did you set it on it's path to death? Nobody will ever really know, but to take a step back like this and give the benefit of the doubt is, in my mind and experience, not often done. Very cool. Well said!
madmax7774 December 16, 2006 Author December 16, 2006 Umm. Your not gonna believe this, but I was really wrong. I was Just called by Melissa from Marine Scene, and the coral did not die after all. She explained to me that the coral was a little shocked for several days, but now has perked back up and is doing very well. Umm, gosh do I feel like a heel. They credited me for all of it, and what can I say. (open mouth insert foot...) I owe MS a big apology for going off half cocked, and I regret this whole incident. I think I owe it to them to tell everyone that I was at fault here, not them. I apologize to everyone here at WAMAS as well for not behaving like an exemplary club member, and I promise to be a little less quick to get upset. John
YBeNormal December 17, 2006 December 17, 2006 John, You are not the first to post something that was later regretted and you certainly will not be the last. I can point to a couple of threads where I have done the same and I'm sure most other board members have made similar mistakes. The important thing here is that you have admitted you were wrong and that you have learned from this experience. Reef on!
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