lighting questions

[Mattb1612]

I’m currently running 180 gallon reef tank with 3 ocean revive lights. I’m getting good coverage and I’m starting to look at new lighting. I started on beginner sps and this was my toe in water approach. I’m now thinking of going into higher end corals. I’m wondering 2 questions:

 

Is it worth it to switch? My main issues are shadowing, color is kind of poor on some of my sps even though polyps extension is good and coral growth seems relatively good. I just increase flow and started ramping mode on 2 mp40 and adding third to the back of the tank.

 

My main ideas for switch are 3 options: 1: 60 inch ati 6 bulb light with reef brite antic supplement 2: aquatic life 61 inch light with either hydra 36hd or Radion 15 pro 3: keep the ocean revives and use retrofit kit

 

If anyone has any other thoughts or advice appreciate it.

 

 

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[ReefAddict]

I have a 125 gallon SPS dominant tank.  I started with leds and had similar issues.  Everything was growing, heathy but color would change significantly from the other members tanks I got them from.  Blue corals would turn red and green, red corals turned pink.  So I switched to 60in ATI 6 bulb.  I can grow SPS on the bottom of the tank now, but  I still don’t have great color pop, probably need to get the reef brite.  Much better growth and a little better color for me with T5’s.  
 

I would try to up your Alk a hair and do the T5 retrofit.  Also make sure your tank isn’t too clean.  

[jhOU]

Do you have a canopy? Adding t5 retrofit to a canopy is definitely best bang for your buck. If not, you just have to get a bit creative with a mounting solution. However, lighting might not be your issue at all. What are your nitrates/phosphates? Pale colors might be more of a coral nutrition issue


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[Mattb1612]

You know I’ve never really tested that. What test kits do you recommend? I’ve just always judged high nutrients off of algae growth and I don’t have anything crazy. I do have some algae on glass my rocks look pretty clean. I did have some diatoms but an increase flow fixed that.


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[jhOU]

You know I’ve never really tested that. What test kits do you recommend? I’ve just always judged high nutrients off of algae growth and I don’t have anything crazy. I do have some algae on glass my rocks look pretty clean. I did have some diatoms but an increase flow fixed that.


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For phosphate Hannah phosphorus ultra low range, for nitrate I use nyos and red sea (prefer nyos). How old is the tank? Are you sure you have diatoms and not dinos?


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[KingOfAll_Tyrants]

There are lots of opinions out there about lighting.   My only direct experience is Kessils vs. ATI T5s, and it wasn't a contest: ATI T5s grew acros, etc. in ways that Kessils couldn't.  However, there is still shading with T5s (heck, there's shading with the sun!), especially if the coral is at the edge of the T5s' coverage area.  If you want the actinic pop, there reef bars from 21LED USA or Reef Brite Lumi strips, etc.   (I ran the T5s 8-10 hours and then the LEDs the remaining 6-8 hours folks were running around the house before bedtime.

 

Do watch nutrients and alk levels - when I get back into acros I'm going to get one of the growing number of automatic alk monitor machines and link them to a doser/Calcium reactor.   I'd recommend getting this under control at the same time, and even before, you get new lights.   

 

Random first and second hand opinions: (I'm sure, even hope, that one of them will be controversial and elicit some further thoughts  )

 

- My recommendation would be to put most acros between at least 2, and IMO preferably 4, T5s, and to put most acros and branching corals as high as you can, especially millies, tenuis, etc.  Those kind of acros get like 500 PAR for most of the day, and even higher, on a real coral reef, so you can't really burn them.   (some people say however that because LEDs are focused you can actually burn a coral with an LED when you get past 300 PAR, in a way the sun, a MH, or T5 can't, even if you go up to really high PAR levels.  I don't know, I've never done an experiment to prove/disprove that claim)

 

- I'm not convinced that LEDs objectively saves more energy than T5s or MH - they just provide different kinds of light - a 215 watt Radion XR30 G5 consumes the same range of power IMO 4x 54W T5s as a 250w MH.   But they definitely give you different kind of light, it 

 

- assuming your dimensions are 72x25x25 (typical 180 gallon dimensions), I'd go with an 8 T5 fixture.   You can go for an ATI fixture, and i'm sure it has bells and whistles that will be good, but at the same time I can see the value proposition of a cheaper T5 housing from Amazon. (ATI's bulbs are good, IMO.  I'd choose the bulbs based on your corals, with the caveat that I never found their actinic T5 very useful). 

 

- note that with that depth you probably will be struggling to grow the generally more demanding acros at the bottom 1/3 of the tank.   (though some of the "deeper" ones- enchinata, speciosa, granulosa, etc. - will work well there, as will encrusting montis, porites, etc.)

 

- some people swear by halides for acros - and supposedly the current production halides by Hamilton Tech are way more energy efficient than the older ones.   Enough so that I decided to buy new halides tp try for my hoped for next tank acro tank, though that next tank wont be around for at least another year.   (if you were interested in borrowing one of the fixtures for a month or two, PM me)

 

- That being said, I know at least two members - epleeds and skysoblue - use (or at least used) radions and get excellent results with acros.   I don't remember off the top of their head how many, but when I did the math years ago for getting my desired coverage I got huge sticker shock.   (though mind you they have success, while all I have now is a hangover from a massive tank crash :(. )

 

- Dr. Mac I believe highly recommends the Ocean Revive T247 lights; that being said his SPS grow out is in his greenhouse rather than under the ORs, but I think in his experience they work fine.   I might just get more if I wanted to get better coverage, though OTOMH (without doing any research beyond looking at the dimensions) I'd think about doubling the number you have (two rows of 3x lights)

Edited April 15, 2020 by KingOfAll_Tyrants

[Mattb1612]

So I ordered the Red Sea phos/ nitrate test. Now I’m really interested in my phos/nitrates. I’ve always view visual ques as an issue but I don’t ever seem to have anything super concerning.


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[jhOU]

Sorry to go off track of light discussion... but can you take a pic of the circled area under white light? Kind of looks like the dinos I had. My corals struggled a bit when I had them.


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[Mattb1612]

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[jhOU]

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ok looks more like just a bit of cyano


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[Mattb1612]

Update I have increased dosing of esv alk to 1ml to get it back to that 8dkh range. I have order Red Sea algae test kit will be here Tuesday . I’ve also order Red Sea nopox large bottle to dose if needed as well. I started runnning chemipure blue last night. At this point though i feel I’m guessing it’s nitrates phosphates without any proof you know. The rocks look good and yea my sand bed has a sprinkling of cyano which might be the cause. I guess I’ve just never had terrible algae issues so I never thought it could be no3 po4 issue. Anyways all things to consider appreciate the advice.


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[DFR]

Looking at the tank, nothing seems to be way out of whack.  The colors look fine to me but you see it everyday .  If it is getting dull, it could be too low nutrients (which a round of testing will determine).

 

As for your original question; ocean revive produces a nice spread so instead of completely changing them out, you could just add supplemental light (option 3) to increase intensity and slightly reduce shadowing.  All of your older colonies seem to be doing well with your current lighting, so why change to something completely new.

[Mattb1612]

I agree dfr. I might add 4 retro fit kits and see how that works.

So update on tank parameters alk 7.8 cal 454 mag 1485 nitrates 0 (tested with Red Sea) phosphates .04 (tested with Red Sea)

So another thought what about dosing trace elements like Red Sea abcd dosing. Or do I buy a calcium reactor ?


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[YHSublime]

1 hour ago, Mattb1612 said:

I agree dfr. I might add 4 retro fit kits and see how that works.

So update on tank parameters alk 7.8 cal 454 mag 1485 nitrates 0 (tested with Red Sea) phosphates .04 (tested with Red Sea)

So another thought what about dosing trace elements like Red Sea abcd dosing. Or do I buy a calcium reactor ?

 

Retro some T5 in there, you'll enjoy it, so will your coral. It's light, it grows things, the OR lights are good. 

 

I don't believe you need to dose trace elements as long as you feed quality, water change, and dose for calcium and alkalinity consumption. I didn't catch it, do you have a doser hooked up? If not, you should, sounds like you need to start. You could jump right into a calcium reactor if you've got some money burning a hole in your pocket, but I prefer ESV-2 part. 

[Mattb1612]

Hey sublime, I currently run two part. I’m dosing esv and then I dose acro power. I do 20 gallon water change every week as well.


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[DFR]

Nice that those test kits were able to provide some helpful results.  Are you able to increase your feedings to up the Nitrates a bit.  This will undoubtedly also increase your phosphates.  Do you by chance have a means to reduce your phosphate (possibly GFO)?  If you’re feeding decent food, your nitrates and phosphates should raise evenly so dropping your phosphates and increasing feeding should assist with your colors.

Another option is continue what you’re doing and start with an amino dosing regimen.  Only problem with this option is it’ll probably help feed your algae/cyano/dino.