Triton method.. Anyone doing it?

[GOSKN5]

After the talk at FragFest I am intrigued... Anyone doing the triton method?

 

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[mari.harutunian]

If I could re do my tank from the beginning after that lecture I would've bought a tank with a sump instead of AIO and done the triton method...

 

 

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[CK Reef]

I'm not doing the triton method but I have a big refugium section in my 75 gallons sump and I have never taken anything out. Refugium light is on for 12hrs a day. The tank is not crystal clear since it always has pods floating around but my mandarins have never been hungry.

I just had a clam spawning problem today (she had been doing that since 11AM yesterday til 4AM in the morning todat) which made my tank super cloudy and polluted. But everything is fine now and I personally think those chaeto helped me a lot in nutrition control. Just my 2 cents

[treesprite]

Do you mean in terms of the entire thing, ncludng the testing, or just the setup and maintenance of the tank, using supplements instead of water changes but not necessarily the expensive testing?

 

I think it CAN be done with an AIO. I had a DIY 16g AIO that had a section packed with macros, no skimming, no filters, and the water changes only like every 3 or 4 months. It did have a DSB in it. The water parameters were always perfect. I was never able to duplicate that in any other tank, which has been exceedingly frustrating.

 

Mari, if the tank is not black on the back, or the black can be scraped off, you can put macros in and light it through the back wall of the tank.

Edited August 1, 2017 by treesprite

[Nart]

@mari.harutunian What AIO tank do you have? Agreed with Treesprite. I have an AIO tank, IM25 Lagoon. I removed the black vinyl in the back to grow chaeto.

[mari.harutunian]

I have the fluval m-90 and the back is glass. I just don't think I would be able to pack enough algae to make it worth it. Plus there's pretty slow flow back there.

 

 

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[AlanM]

I'm not sure I'm going to go full Triton, but the talk did make me want to resurrect my macroalgae fuge for my new tank.  I will have to do a remote fuge draining in to the sump, like an intermediate sump.

 

Now to start finding macro.

[GOSKN5]

I am setting up a fuge now... but am debating the testing and the supplements etc... the full on triton I guess

 

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[mogurnda]

I am setting up a fuge now... but am debating the testing and the supplements etc... the full on triton I guess

 

 

What are you trying to fix?  Your tank is beautiful, so what are you trying to do differently?  Are you fighting outbreaks of nuisance algae?  Are your corals not thriving the way you want?  To me, the Triton method looks like a lot of micromanagement and expense.  

 

As far as the method goes, I am interested in periodically getting a periodic detailed rundown of my parameters, but have some doubts otherwise.  Keep in mind that I literally grow nuisance algae as part of my job, and think a lot about the growth conditions and chemical ecology of macroalgae and grazers.  I    algae, and believe that  every reef system will benefit from a refugium, but some of the Triton system theory seems pretty hand-wavy.

 

I think the concept of growing algae for nutrient export, but never harvesting, is magic thinking.  If you sit down and do the math of how much algae growth is needed to reduce the nitrogen in a (for example) 50 gallon system by 1 ppm, you'll see that it's a lot.  I have worked through this more than once, and now will have to find my calculations when I am not supposed to be working on something else.  Basically, it would fill sizable refugium to bursting relatively quickly.  

 

If the algae are dying back, then what about the N, P, and defensive compounds that will be released from the dead algae?  Caulerpa and Halimeda (two genera that Joe highlighted in his talk) both produce toxins that are strong enough to deter most generalist grazers, so I do not imagine they will make coral happy.  As far as the benefits from sugars and/or amino acids released by dying algae, he showed no data one way or the other.  

 

My view is that their system works, but, like many of the methods we have seen over the years, probably not for all the reasons they think.  

Edited August 1, 2017 by mogurnda

[matt]

I didn't get to come to the meeting, so missed the talk. Is the order of fuge->skimmer set that way so that the skimmer helps manage macroalgae die-off? Perhaps that is helping compensate for a lack of algae harvesting

[matt]

From Randy Holmes Farley on RC in 2008...

 

"A skimmer will not remove most individual amino acids, IMO, but it can certainly remove proteins and whole bacteria and bacterial body fragments that contain a lot of amino acids.

 

The very most hydrophobic amino acids may be skimmed out a bit, but IMO those are not the ones most likely to be useful in a supplement anyway. "

[AlanM]

I also don't understand the "not harvesting any macro" part.  I found a summary on Reef2Reef of the method and I swear they mention harvesting macro specifically, but now I can't find it.   Most of what gets removed when you harvest is carbon from CO2 anyway, plus nitrate, phosphate, ammonia, iron, and a bunch of other smaller elements.

[madweazl]

I also don't understand the "not harvesting any macro" part.  I found a summary on Reef2Reef of the method and I swear they mention harvesting macro specifically, but now I can't find it.   Most of what gets removed when you harvest is carbon from CO2 anyway, plus nitrate, phosphate, ammonia, iron, and a bunch of other smaller elements.

 

"Note: some of the algae should be allowed to die-back, it is during this process that the acids, vitamins, and surgars are released."

 

I'm guessing that quote is part of the reason. I've let mine grow out for a couple of months in the past without noticing any negative affects (e.g. increased NO3 or PO4). I've been tempted to try this method for quite a while but things are going well so I've left it alone. I do want to set up a larger tank and will be seriously considering this however, the larger volume may very well make the method cost prohibitive compared to smaller, frequent AWCs.

Edited August 2, 2017 by madweazl

[AlanM]

"Note: some of the algae should be allowed to die-back, it is during this process that the acids, vitamins, and surgars are released."

 

I'm guessing that quote is part of the reason. I've let mine grow out for a couple of months in the past without noticing any negative affects (e.g. increased NO3 or PO4). I've been tempted to try this method for quite a while but things are going well so I've left it alone. I do want to set up a larger tank and will be seriously considering this however, the larger volume may very well make the method cost prohibitive compared to smaller, frequent AWCs.

 

I have 200g total.  I will get a 20H from Petco's $1/g sale which is going on now, apparently, and drill it for a bulkhead and let it drain into the sump.  Once I have the macro going in there I'll think about their magic juice. 

[GOSKN5]

What are you trying to fix? Your tank is beautiful, so what are you trying to do differently? Are you fighting outbreaks of nuisance algae? Are your corals not thriving the way you want? To me, the Triton method looks like a lot of micromanagement and expense.

 

As far as the method goes, I am interested in periodically getting a periodic detailed rundown of my parameters, but have some doubts otherwise. Keep in mind that I literally grow nuisance algae as part of my job, and think a lot about the growth conditions and chemical ecology of macroalgae and grazers. I algae, and believe that every reef system will benefit from a refugium, but some of the Triton system theory seems pretty hand-wavy.

 

I think the concept of growing algae for nutrient export, but never harvesting, is magic thinking. If you sit down and do the math of how much algae growth is needed to reduce the nitrogen in a (for example) 50 gallon system by 1 ppm, you'll see that it's a lot. I have worked through this more than once, and now will have to find my calculations when I am not supposed to be working on something else. Basically, it would fill sizable refugium to bursting relatively quickly.

 

If the algae are dying back, then what about the N, P, and defensive compounds that will be released from the dead algae? Caulerpa and Halimeda (two genera that Joe highlighted in his talk) both produce toxins that are strong enough to deter most generalist grazers, so I do not imagine they will make coral happy. As far as the benefits from sugars and/or amino acids released by dying algae, he showed no data one way or the other.

 

My view is that their system works, but, like many of the methods we have seen over the years, probably not for all the reasons they think.

I still struggle with a few things... Always looking for a way to improve... guess it's just my nature.. but I like to try new things and see if it works and makes even better

 

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